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Supernatural Experiences

I wonder if other's have experienced any supernatural events. The question arose when I was reading another thread "Questions about Buddhism From The Eyes Of A Skeptic".

I have experienced a few fairly pedantic examples. One time, when I was in the airforce, I had the idea of a Volkswagen pop into my head for no particular reason. I then joined some friends at a table in the mess hall and one of the occupants had just bought a volkswagen. (I had not brought it up and I kept it to myself that I had the thought).

On another occasion, I had the idea of a burning truck pop into my head, and shortly thereafter, we came upon a truck that burned to the ground. Again, I never brought it up.

Are there other examples from other participants? I wonder if "insight meditation" has anything to do with making a person more sensitive.

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Comments

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    No.

    These are just events, that your mind believes to be supernatural, because the proximity of the thought and event coinciding at that time gives credence to the thoughts that the mind has just excreted.

    Otherwise everything is supernatural! In which case supernatural just means happens rarely.
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran
    certainly makes one more sensitive to "distant" events, but they are not the purpose of practice. so enjoy but don'r build structure around them ^_^
    personhowlobster
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    I like that @Sova - supernatural experiences are structures!

    Like the Shard in London. Looks pretty nice from a distance but get anywhere near it and it starts costing you a lot!
  • I haven't had one and don't believe they are real. Do people experience them? Certainly. By either quirks of the brain, stress, or imagination. When it comes to ghosts, demons, angels, and jinns, these things are the product of the human tendency to find agency in everything. It's a survival instinct really. If your cro-magnon grandfather heard a rustle in the grass and suspected it was a predator, he ran away and survived even if it might only be the wind. But assume it's the wind when it is really a tiger and you become lunch.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    I haven't had one and don't believe they are real. Do people experience them? Certainly. By either quirks of the brain, stress, or imagination. When it comes to ghosts, demons, angels, and jinns, these things are the product of the human tendency to find agency in everything. It's a survival instinct really. If your cro-magnon grandfather heard a rustle in the grass and suspected it was a predator, he ran away and survived even if it might only be the wind. But assume it's the wind when it is really a tiger and you become lunch.

    I believe I am coming around to understand (but not necessarily agree with) your perspective @ paratrooper. Would you be so kind as to answer me a simple question?: Are you here to facilitate a (potential) change in yourself or just comment from a fixed perspective?

    Put the gun away, I am not threatening you nor trying to be aggressive here ;-)

    sovalobster
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Meditation is a practice in quieting the left brain, which is the busy, analytical mind, the chattering mind, so that the faculties of the right brain, the intuitive, creative side, can come to the fore. When you dwell in the right brain, you can have intuitive insights and "psychic" experiences (called "siddhis" in the Hindu tradition, and in some branches of Buddhism as well). It's the right brain that generates the sense of unity of all creation that some meditators experience.

    (See the book "My Stroke of Insight", by a neurologist, for details on the functions of the right brain.)
    jae
  • I used to believe exactly as Frozen does. But then I spent some years working in a very busy ER/Trauma Center. I've seen enough to have had my opinions "adjusted" for me. 180 degrees. It's chilling.
    anatamanHamsakaoceancaldera207
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Dakini said:

    Meditation is a practice in quieting the left brain, which is the busy, analytical mind, the chattering mind, so that the faculties of the right brain, the intuitive, creative side, can come to the fore. When you dwell in the right brain, you can have intuitive insights and "psychic" experiences (called "siddhis" in the Hindu tradition, and in some branches of Buddhism as well). It's the right brain that generates the sense of unity of all creation that some meditators experience.

    (See the book "My Stroke of Insight", by a neurologist, for details on the functions of the right brain.)

    I did a degree in neuroscience (waste of a year of my life at least) - It took up all of my left brain to discover that my right brain was wrong.
    BhanteLuckysovacvalue
  • Dakini said:

    Meditation is a practice in quieting the left brain, which is the busy, analytical mind, the chattering mind, so that the faculties of the right brain, the intuitive, creative side, can come to the fore. When you dwell in the right brain, you can have intuitive insights and "psychic" experiences (called "siddhis" in the Hindu tradition, and in some branches of Buddhism as well). It's the right brain that generates the sense of unity of all creation that some meditators experience.

    (See the book "My Stroke of Insight", by a neurologist, for details on the functions of the right brain.)

    Yes, I have that book (and saw a TED talk featuring Jill Bowles Taylor as well). Excellent presenter.

  • Steve_B said:

    I used to believe exactly as Frozen does. But then I spent some years working in a very busy ER/Trauma Center. I've seen enough to have had my opinions "adjusted" for me. 180 degrees. It's chilling.

    Does that mean you have seen things that cannot be explained?

  • anataman said:

    No.

    These are just events, that your mind believes to be supernatural, because the proximity of the thought and event coinciding at that time gives credence to the thoughts that the mind has just excreted.

    Otherwise everything is supernatural! In which case supernatural just means happens rarely.

    I don't understand @Anataman. Do you mean that all is supernatural, and we just get a glimpse into it on occasion?

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I've had a few psychic events like you describe and I do believe they are more than just coincidence though there is really no way to prove that.

    I have also witnessed one sort of "miracle". When I was attending HHDL's teachings in India just before he came out to address the audience a flock of birds flew overhead in formation. Right above where His Holiness was at the time they stopped and still in formation circled three times (circumambulation and doing something three times are significant in the Tibetan tradition) then went off in the direction they were previously traveling. A rather minor event, nothing like walking on water or raising the dead, but a far enough departure from ordinary for me and the whole crowd to take notice.
    sova
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @AllbuddhaBound
    I've seen tons of stuff that doesn't fit with our view of a predictably ordered universe
    but if we are just the coalesced inertia of past delusions in denial of a reality that is better called chaos....what is supernatural and what isn't?

    What is certain for Buddhists is that clinging to any phenomena, supernatural or not,
    is suffering.
    lobsteranatamancvalue
  • My teacher said supernatural events do happen a lot. But he always advises his students do not like them too much because this is not the purpose of Buddhism. He advises us to ignore them and to concentrate on proper or correct meditation because it's very easy to open our mind to demons if we are not careful.
    pegembara
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    If something cannot be proven or DISproven, I figure whether I believe in it or not is as important as a fart in Mongolia. Being agnostic sits OK with me.

    I know people intimately who are not suffering psychosis (hallucinations) or delusions, and who tell about their paranormal experiences with completely congruent nonverbal language to boot (yes, sadly, I am that skeptical of loved ones). I've also met ding dongs who hope sensing or manipulating the paranormal or supernatural makes them more special or powerful, and the other ding dongs who agree with them (ie, worship/respect, pay for services). I'm as concrete as they come while being open minded, but I can see through a wannabee and it's pretty sad.

    I don't personally know any of the following, but I can relate in my imagination; people with supernatural abilities who wish like hell they DIDN'T have them.

    Are these faculties in service to the end of suffering for all sentient beings? That's what matters. It's more important than whether or not they exist in the first place.

    As my concentration gets more powerful (during meditation) I've had a couple of hair raisingly unusual experiences. I read Jill Bolte Taylor's book "My Stroke of Insight" and it makes a lot of sense that our first efforts in samatha meditation is to quiet the chattering left hemisphere, thus allowing the 'quieter' or more subtle manifestations of the right hemisphere to be noticeable. So these unusual experiences I'm having are staying alert and aware while falling asleep. They are truly bizarre. Also called 'hypnogogia', they are the natural transition from wakefulness into sleep. They are full out, all senses involved hallucinations that go on and on like movies. I also have some 'control' over them, and I've since learned this is a state of semi-lucid dreaming, or from this one can learn to lucidly dream. Not something I'm terribly interested in, but I'm not aversive. It's just weird that the concentration state spontaneously happens right as I'm falling asleep (not every night, but several lately). If I get sleepy during meditation, I know I am sleepy FIRST because I begin to hallucinate visually and hear people speaking, then the sensation of sleepiness is apparent.

    That's about as weird as it gets for me, but I welcome greater weirdness if that's even a respectful thing to call it.

    Also lately I get these powerful sensations of energy and vibration sweeping up and down my body. Last night it felt like the top of my head was so full it would pop off. Not painful or scary at all, maybe even a little peaceful? I can bring forth this 'energy' sensation voluntarily, just sitting here; it is very mild in comparison, but still pleasant.

    Gassho :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2014
    I was on a flight and there was a Dad on the aisle and a kid in the middle. The kid eventually asked me if I had been asleep my whole life. I said 'yes' and then he was explaining this stuff to me about a ladder and how he didn't like sun glasses. I am guessing the kid was 9. I was surprised but then his Dad made a subtle motion of his hand which had a crucifix on the jewelry. The things that the kid explained to me were spiritual I felt. Now granted I am schizophrenic.

    I also thought of my friend while driving. He was an old friend. Out of the beauty of that thought I saw golden lights. It was very beautiful.

    Also I used to be able to drain energy (I felt it) through trees.

    Finally when I lost my job as a pharmacy technician right after a hospitalization a neighborhood lady offered to buy me groceries. I never told her I lost the job. I accepted the offer because I was just going with the flow; generosity cannot exist without a recipient. But she bought me milk and beer and bread and some other things. Probably cost her 40 dollars. Later my other neighbor needed money for her sons birthday (supposedly lol) and I gave her 20 dollars.
    HamsakacvaluepegembaraDandelion
  • I used to believe -- and I think I still believe -- that "supernatural" basically means something we can't explain. All too easy to ascribe the unexpected to the supernatural.

    I am not at all a believer in people being clairvoyant or having consistently supernatural powers or other paranormal mental powers of any kind. I'm with Hamsaka on this one; I've seen plenty of dingdongs and wackos. However, I had a few intense experiences around dying patients and family members that make me realize there is something that is simultaneously of intense power and ethereal vapor, that certainly cannot be explained and is only glimpsed on vanishingly rare occasions. I have never experienced it personally, but I've been a witness several times, maybe three or so in six years.

    Years later, when my father was dying, he had some quasi-lucid moments. I wondered if we would experience any of this "aura" and was prepared to experience whatever may happen. But nothing. He slowly slipped away, a very normal death by ICU standards.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited January 2014
    The "aura" is a perfectly natural phenomenon. It's our electromagnetic field, generated by the electrical activity of our bodies in combination with the natural polarity of the Earth (this is basic physics and anatomy & physiology). The unusual thing is to be able to actually perceive the aura. Few people can do that. (Or were you referring to a different "aura", @Steve_B?)

    People who doubt the existence of any "psychic" abilities in others should take a workshop aimed at helping participants explore their own abilities. You'd be surprised at the results. We all have this to one degree or another, and these abilities can be honed with practice so that you get better at it. Once you're aware you have them at all.
  • anataman said:

    I haven't had one and don't believe they are real. Do people experience them? Certainly. By either quirks of the brain, stress, or imagination. When it comes to ghosts, demons, angels, and jinns, these things are the product of the human tendency to find agency in everything. It's a survival instinct really. If your cro-magnon grandfather heard a rustle in the grass and suspected it was a predator, he ran away and survived even if it might only be the wind. But assume it's the wind when it is really a tiger and you become lunch.

    I believe I am coming around to understand (but not necessarily agree with) your perspective @ paratrooper. Would you be so kind as to answer me a simple question?: Are you here to facilitate a (potential) change in yourself or just comment from a fixed perspective?

    Put the gun away, I am not threatening you nor trying to be aggressive here ;-)

    I'm not sure whether to be flattered or slighted. ;). But I'll keep all firearms holstered just the same.

    My answer? It depends. I seek self-improvement and knowledge constantly. I try to learn a new fact everyday. I'm fixed on some things and more fluid on others. For instance, no rhetorical argument would convince me on the Internet to accept one religion or another, or to reject evolution, or be convinced of ghosts.

    But as I have expressed elsewhere, I am entirely open and accepting of the possibilities of mindfulness, meditation, and other traditionally Buddhist practices.



    Jeffrey
  • Is self improvement amassing a knowledge arsenal, or being willing to wipe it clean and redraw it?
  • Well I used to be a fundamentalist and creationist, so yes I have on occasions in the past wiped the whole slate clean. Recently? Nothing that dramatic. But yes, I'm happy to challenge notions I hold. But the more fantastic the proposition (ghosts and souls and demons), the more skeptical I am.
  • I've seen tons of stuff that doesn't fit with our view of a predictably ordered universe
    As has been mentioned when and if these things happen . . . Nothing of any import, move along . . . The most usual thing is trying to ignore them or accept them and keep them veiled. They are kept 'secret' because we beginners are attracted to irrelevant superficialities. 'Progress', is not measured by special abilities.

    With great power comes great responsibility
    Spider-Man . . . via Voltaire
  • " I have been a meditator for 30 years. I have never ever had a single experience which was remotely supportive of the existence of the supernatural. Neither has anyone I know who I would trust to be honest and who has a degree of self awareness."

    Alan Watts.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    anataman said:

    No.

    These are just events, that your mind believes to be supernatural, because the proximity of the thought and event coinciding at that time gives credence to the thoughts that the mind has just excreted.

    Otherwise everything is supernatural! In which case supernatural just means happens rarely.

    I don't understand @Anataman. Do you mean that all is supernatural, and we just get a glimpse into it on occasion?

    Natural or supernatural - it's just experience, and perception of that experience and how you tell yourself a story of how that experience affected you -

    Everything is magical by the way :-)

  • There is still a market out there for paranormal studies as a science. If you must convince people that it doesn't exist, you should tell them to cancel their program.
  • Does speaking to a disembodied voice (cellphone) count as supernatural?
    How about flying (plane) in the air?

    All experiences are natural even when they seemed supernatural.

    The Buddha forbade his followers from showing off their psychic abilities as these things did not lead to freedom from dukkha.
    I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Nalanda in Pavarika's mango grove. Then Kevatta the householder approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, this Nalanda is powerful, both prosperous and populous, filled with people who have faith in the Blessed One. It would be good if the Blessed One were to direct a monk to display a miracle of psychic power from his superior human state so that Nalanda would to an even greater extent have faith in the Blessed One."

    When this was said, the Blessed One said to Kevatta the householder, "Kevatta, I don't teach the monks in this way: 'Come, monks, display a miracle of psychic power to the lay people clad in white.'"

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html
    cvalue
  • Look in to accounts of twin and parent child clairvoyance and synchronistic events. Also historical synchronicity with astronomical odds. It's out there.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Synchrony occurs at the quantum level, nothing supernatural about that, other than it is a domain we can't really grasp a firm understanding of. No matter how hard science tries to.

    It may well be that those who have attained buddhahood have psychic abilities, but displaying them would make some people superstitious wouldn't it. And we know that superstitions can lead to unfortunate consequences. Take Africa at the moment:http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/will_africa_still_be_immersed_in_deep_superstition_by_the_year_2030

    Remember, we can all test the truth of ourselves by skepticism and mindful observation? I don't have a clairvoyant mind, I have never seen a ghost, I can't levitate or witnessed someone levitate, god or buddha has never manifested before me in the form of a burning bush or angel. Therefore, for now I don't categorise anything I have experienced as SUPERNTURAL. I neither want to believe not disbelieve. It's a good place to be.
  • anataman said:

    Synchrony occurs at the quantum level, nothing supernatural about that, other than it is a domain we can't really grasp a firm understanding of. No matter how hard science tries to.

    It may well be that those who have attained buddhahood have psychic abilities, but displaying them would make some people superstitious wouldn't it. And we know that superstitions can lead to unfortunate consequences. Take Africa at the moment:http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/will_africa_still_be_immersed_in_deep_superstition_by_the_year_2030

    Remember, we can all test the truth of ourselves by skepticism and mindful observation? I don't have a clairvoyant mind, I have never seen a ghost, I can't levitate or witnessed someone levitate, god or buddha has never manifested before me in the form of a burning bush or angel. Therefore, for now I don't categorise anything I have experienced as SUPERNTURAL. I neither want to believe not disbelieve. It's a good place to be.


    I think there is more knowledge of the psychic abilities in Buddhism as you say, but there are many secrets that are not spoken of in other than, well trained Buddhist circles. It may seem like an elitist attitude but then again, it may all be for the best.

    how
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Again, I read this in a sutta but lost the memory of where :( I read it for the first time last night, and hopefully someone else here's read it and can correct me.

    In a nutshell, the Buddha was approaching a village and one of the monks had unusual abilities (psychic or magic), and another monk asked the Buddha if the monk with special abilities should do a demonstration for the village in order to wow and impress the villagers. The Buddha said no, and the moral of the story included, among other things, that bragging displays of special abilities is missing the point in a big way.

    Shaila Catherine, in her book Focused and Fearless states that the greater the achievements in meditative skills and wisdom, the more reluctant the person becomes to go around shouting about them. Mainly because the more they know, the more they realize they don't know and cannot fully grasp. This goes along with the pithy sayings from all wisdom traditions that basically say: "Those who know talk a lot less than those who don't."

    Besides, in this day and age, if you go around levitating things or telling people what they are thinking, you are likely to have a bunch of villagers with pitchforks chasing you down the road. People who claim arahancy (sic?) are immediately 'shot down' on sight. There might be a real arahat in the deep forests of Thailand or Burma, but nobody knows him/her or if it's even true.

    Gassho :)
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    "Unusual" abilities can arise from anyone whose meditation practice is well grounded enough, to treat such abilities as indifferently as they would any phenomena.

    Those few who do choose to indulge such abilities soon lose their practice, abilities and seem mainly left with the taint of a hungry ghost.

    While the whole process is self regulating, the traditional warnings about it are both well founded and compassionate.
    cvaluelobsterstavros388
  • One day the Buddha met an ascetic who sat by the bank of a river. This ascetic had practised austerities for 25 years. The Buddha asked him what he had received for all his labour. The ascetic proudly replied that, finally, he could cross the river by walking on the water. The Buddha pointed out that this gain was insignificant for all the years of labour, since he could cross the river using a ferry for one penny!
    http://www.parami.org/buddhistanswers/what_about_miracles.htm
    Hamsakaperson
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    edited January 2014

    anataman said:

    Synchrony occurs at the quantum level, nothing supernatural about that, other than it is a domain we can't really grasp a firm understanding of. No matter how hard science tries to.

    It may well be that those who have attained buddhahood have psychic abilities, but displaying them would make some people superstitious wouldn't it. And we know that superstitions can lead to unfortunate consequences. Take Africa at the moment:http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/will_africa_still_be_immersed_in_deep_superstition_by_the_year_2030

    Remember, we can all test the truth of ourselves by skepticism and mindful observation? I don't have a clairvoyant mind, I have never seen a ghost, I can't levitate or witnessed someone levitate, god or buddha has never manifested before me in the form of a burning bush or angel. Therefore, for now I don't categorise anything I have experienced as SUPERNTURAL. I neither want to believe not disbelieve. It's a good place to be.


    I think there is more knowledge of the psychic abilities in Buddhism as you say, but there are many secrets that are not spoken of in other than, well trained Buddhist circles. It may seem like an elitist attitude but then again, it may all be for the best.

    I challenge that ridiculous and superstitious and supernatural assumption. Now where's your gumption! Show me your self and I'll show you a shadow; show me a Buddha walking on water and I'll drown the bugger!

    Show me nothing and I'll accept it for what it is. Empty and... well, you know, full of something that's accepting of both of us and which does not need to be fulfilled, but is.

    Since when did Buddhism become 'The Magic Circle'. Oh no Dynamo is a Buddha! No he's a great illusionist, and if you believe what he does is real, you're deluded. Now watch me disappear as I invoke and shield myself with the powerful spell 'ekoms fo ffup a ni modsiw esrever'

    No I am not taking this thread seriously; but seriously are any of you really taking it seriously. Is the world really this flat and far-fetched! Well I suppose it might just be! Time to worship Great A'tuin the space turtle! Anyone have a copy of the 'hitchhikers guide to the galaxy,'. It may well be a story of the impending apocalypse.

    Jeffrey
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    anataman said:

    ...

    Since when did Buddhism become 'The Magic Circle'. ...

    Thank you!

    cvalue
  • wangchueywangchuey Veteran
    edited January 2014
    anataman said:


    I challenge that ridiculous and superstitious and supernatural assumption

    No room for dessert I guess.

    howanataman
  • anataman said:

    anataman said:

    Synchrony occurs at the quantum level, nothing supernatural about that, other than it is a domain we can't really grasp a firm understanding of. No matter how hard science tries to.

    It may well be that those who have attained buddhahood have psychic abilities, but displaying them would make some people superstitious wouldn't it. And we know that superstitions can lead to unfortunate consequences. Take Africa at the moment:http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/will_africa_still_be_immersed_in_deep_superstition_by_the_year_2030

    Remember, we can all test the truth of ourselves by skepticism and mindful observation? I don't have a clairvoyant mind, I have never seen a ghost, I can't levitate or witnessed someone levitate, god or buddha has never manifested before me in the form of a burning bush or angel. Therefore, for now I don't categorise anything I have experienced as SUPERNTURAL. I neither want to believe not disbelieve. It's a good place to be.


    I think there is more knowledge of the psychic abilities in Buddhism as you say, but there are many secrets that are not spoken of in other than, well trained Buddhist circles. It may seem like an elitist attitude but then again, it may all be for the best.

    I challenge that ridiculous and superstitious and supernatural assumption. Now where's your gumption! Show me your self and I'll show you a shadow; show me a Buddha walking on water and I'll drown the bugger!

    Show me nothing and I'll accept it for what it is. Empty and... well, you know, full of something that's accepting of both of us and which does not need to be fulfilled, but is.

    Since when did Buddhism become 'The Magic Circle'. Oh no Dynamo is a Buddha! No he's a great illusionist, and if you believe what he does is real, you're deluded. Now watch me disappear as I invoke and shield myself with the powerful spell 'ekoms fo ffup a ni modsiw esrever'

    No I am not taking this thread seriously; but seriously are any of you really taking it seriously. Is the world really this flat and far-fetched! Well I suppose it might just be! Time to worship Great A'tuin the space turtle! Anyone have a copy of the 'hitchhikers guide to the galaxy,'. It may well be a story of the impending apocalypse.

    As have been mentioned in a few entries here, the Suttas have spoke of those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions. Are the Suttas concocting bogus claims?

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    ...

    As have been mentioned in a few entries here, the Suttas have spoke of those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions. Are the Suttas concocting bogus claims?

    To me, this is one of those places where the rubber hits the road.

    Are we going to accept "those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions", when it is the "magic" in Christianity that western Buddhists often speak of as the reason they left Christianity.

    We can't have it both ways.

  • I must say that, although I was rather skeptical about most things paranormal or supernatural, I experienced quite a lot of weirdness over the last three years, particularly right around the passing of each of my parents. When my mom was sick in the hospital with pancreatic cancer, and then increasingly after she died, a bunch of stuff happened: a carousel that she had given my newly born son would start up on its own, a recorded book she made for my son started talking, closed, on its own, when I was changing my son's diaper, a cardinal kept perching on my bedroom patio and chirping: Joobee joobee joobee (my mom's name was Judy), my cell phone went completely bizarro about a week before she died, turning off whenever I tried to send a text and sending me gibberish texts with dates like 1981 and 1990 (it went back to normal the night she died), and a doorknob in my bedroom moved on its own while I was meditating (I checked it out, and I am still stumped about how it happened).

    Anyway, there was more, but you get the picture. I am not sure if it fits the bill of "supernatural", but I have also had several dreams that have played out later - often the next day - in "real life" in distinct and sometimes meaningful ways.

    FWIW...
    pegembaraDakinicvalue
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Interesting, Stavros.

    When my father died I visited him at the VA hospital. On the last morning of my visit he talked about the "airmen" (he was in the Air Force for 18 years) coming to take him away, but he said they wouldn't do it until I got back home (he was in Canandaigua, NY, I lived in the Washington, D.C. area. He was adamant about me leaving to get home so that the airmen could take him. I arrived home around 6 p.m. that evening, and 5 minutes after I walked in the door the phone rang and they told me he had just died. The good news -- he was very happy about going with the airmen.

    I make no claims.
    pegembaraHamsakacvalue
  • vinlyn said:

    ...

    As have been mentioned in a few entries here, the Suttas have spoke of those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions. Are the Suttas concocting bogus claims?

    To me, this is one of those places where the rubber hits the road.

    Are we going to accept "those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions", when it is the "magic" in Christianity that western Buddhists often speak of as the reason they left Christianity.

    We can't have it both ways.


    Not everyone left Christianity because of the "magic". I know I left because Buddhism offers a more genuine and fulfilling life than Christianity. There is no comparison.

    cvalueParlaDharma
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    vinlyn said:

    ...

    As have been mentioned in a few entries here, the Suttas have spoke of those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions. Are the Suttas concocting bogus claims?

    To me, this is one of those places where the rubber hits the road.

    Are we going to accept "those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions", when it is the "magic" in Christianity that western Buddhists often speak of as the reason they left Christianity.

    We can't have it both ways.


    Not everyone left Christianity because of the "magic". I know I left because Buddhism offers a more genuine and fulfilling life than Christianity. There is no comparison.

    I didn't say "everyone". I said it is "often" given as a reason.

  • I understand but it was the statement we cant have it both ways is what sounded all inclusive to me.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    I understand but it was the statement we cant have it both ways is what sounded all inclusive to me.

    I guess I'm not clear what you're saying.

  • You have to believe in something. You can't prove there's a heaven or hell, and you can't prove that neither exists. So why not leave room for the other possibilities?
  • vinlyn said:

    I understand but it was the statement we cant have it both ways is what sounded all inclusive to me.

    I guess I'm not clear what you're saying.

    To say "we can't have it both ways" would imply that you are speaking for the collective "we" when in fact, there may well be more Buddhists who believe in the supernatural than not.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    But that isn't what I'm saying.

    I am totally open about what you are calling the supernatural. Not convinced, but it's certainly possible.

    But what I don't approve of (not that it matters) is when a person will condemn one religion because of its "magic", and embrace another religion with magic, and ignore that. One should look at every religion with the same set of standards.
    cvalue
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    anataman said:

    anataman said:

    Synchrony occurs at the quantum level, nothing supernatural about that, other than it is a domain we can't really grasp a firm understanding of. No matter how hard science tries to.

    It may well be that those who have attained buddhahood have psychic abilities, but displaying them would make some people superstitious wouldn't it. And we know that superstitions can lead to unfortunate consequences. Take Africa at the moment:http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/will_africa_still_be_immersed_in_deep_superstition_by_the_year_2030

    Remember, we can all test the truth of ourselves by skepticism and mindful observation? I don't have a clairvoyant mind, I have never seen a ghost, I can't levitate or witnessed someone levitate, god or buddha has never manifested before me in the form of a burning bush or angel. Therefore, for now I don't categorise anything I have experienced as SUPERNTURAL. I neither want to believe not disbelieve. It's a good place to be.


    I think there is more knowledge of the psychic abilities in Buddhism as you say, but there are many secrets that are not spoken of in other than, well trained Buddhist circles. It may seem like an elitist attitude but then again, it may all be for the best.

    I challenge that ridiculous and superstitious and supernatural assumption. Now where's your gumption! Show me your self and I'll show you a shadow; show me a Buddha walking on water and I'll drown the bugger!

    Show me nothing and I'll accept it for what it is. Empty and... well, you know, full of something that's accepting of both of us and which does not need to be fulfilled, but is.

    Since when did Buddhism become 'The Magic Circle'. Oh no Dynamo is a Buddha! No he's a great illusionist, and if you believe what he does is real, you're deluded. Now watch me disappear as I invoke and shield myself with the powerful spell 'ekoms fo ffup a ni modsiw esrever'

    No I am not taking this thread seriously; but seriously are any of you really taking it seriously. Is the world really this flat and far-fetched! Well I suppose it might just be! Time to worship Great A'tuin the space turtle! Anyone have a copy of the 'hitchhikers guide to the galaxy,'. It may well be a story of the impending apocalypse.

    As have been mentioned in a few entries here, the Suttas have spoke of those ridicilous and superstitious and supernatural assumptions. Are the Suttas concocting bogus claims?

    Like much of the gospels about Jesus, they were written down long after Buddha went. So as like most of the buddhists here and everywhere else in the world, where other superstitions and religions with deities and misunderstandings, and misinterpretation, and possibly misinformation, errors crept in as did mythology and before you know it - you can walk on water! the sutras contain wisdom - you just have to find it end strain out the extraneous. ID EST - THE SUPERNATURAL. Do any of you levitate, I mean meditate?
  • jaejae Veteran
    @anataman @ParlaDharma...just say Jesus was a time traveller just wanting to go back and spread the love as he could see what a mess everything was in the future, if you or I went back in time now things we knew/did would 'seem' like miracles even the use of a lighter would spark interest (excuse the pun).. only my opinion and I have probably taken far too many hallucinogenics in my time :)
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