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Meditation and Buddhist agnosticism

I have always thought that the idea of enlightenment was a big motivator for me.

Until just this session the thought occured to me that there was no enlightenment. My mind sharpened up and I found a great laugh, like irony upon seeing how much I had invested or day dreamed towards enlightenment. I experienced first hand the lojong (google) slogan : abandon hope of fruition.

My meditation seems more enchanting now because the present is more the focus than the future.
BunkswangchueyhowInvincible_summerlobsterbetaboyHamsakaanatamanChazDavidcvalueTheEccentricCinorjerTheswingisyellow

Comments

  • I have always thought that the idea of enlightenment was a big motivator for me.
    It came as a wake up call to me, understanding that even dedicated hard practicing sincere monks or practitioners do not become enlightened. Maybe I did not have the qualities/circumstances/karma required. What to do?
    I decided to change myself into someone able to be around an enlightened individual, not cause them problems and be of indirect service.
    Funny thing. I moved.

    :wave:
    JeffreyCinorjer
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    I experienced first hand the lojong (google) slogan : abandon hope of fruition.

    Interesting, Jeffrey. I think for me the motivation has always been curiosity rather than enlightenment.
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Jeffrey said:

    I have always thought that the idea of enlightenment was a big motivator for me.

    Until just this session the thought occured to me that there was no enlightenment. My mind sharpened up and I found a great laugh, like irony upon seeing how much I had invested or day dreamed towards enlightenment. I experienced first hand the lojong (google) slogan : abandon hope of fruition.

    My meditation seems more enchanting now because the present is more the focus than the future.

    Dude that doesn't mean to abandon the idea or the possibility of enlightenment. It refers to our clinging to the hope of fruition. That's all.

    Here's a copy of the Kagyu lineage tree. This is your teacher's lineage. Every human being shown in the tree here is enlightened.

    image

    If you abandon the notion that you can become enlightened then that image is essentially a lie. Right?

    Jeffrey
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2014
    @Chaz and all. I haven't given up on enlightenment. Rather I have noticed that I was outside of the present. It's really difficult for me to explain. It was uplifting.

    It's like I was building this raft for days and days and getting tired of it all because it kept falling apart whenever I tried to take it to the sea. Then finally one day I took a vacation from building the raft.

    Then from that day I was less burned out and I could build the raft with more joy and just let my ideas for how to make the raft more easy going and bubbling up from creativity.
    Chazlobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @Jeffrey
    Mankind commonly attaches significance to rewards that are hoped for just beyond our present reach. Buddhists are no different.
    A motivator to move forward, I guess, but as you point out, definitely isolates one from fully accepting the present place and moment we find ourselves in.
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Jeffrey.. I've just seen this and thought you might like it
    Jeffreycvalue
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    What I've noticed in my practice that applies to letting go of fruition is that I can get hung up on concepts. My puny self-mind still thinks it can conceive of what Awakening/Fruition looks like, or whatever, and I can get hung up on those conceptions. They are incorrect (a nice way of putting it) and distractions.

    Instead, a lot like you @Jeffrey, over and over again, I 'give up' what I think fruition looks like (or *is* like). I trust the process. If I apply discipline as taught, in spite of doubts or distractions, Fruition will naturally happen. I'm happy to know right now that I don't care *when* it does or even what it *looks like* or *is* when it does. Fruition is a much more comprehensive thing than my sense of self and the stories I tell about it.

    The only dilemma I have at present is that I know if I renounce my present life and head to a monastery or temple, I'm likely to encounter Fruition much sooner than if I continue on with my secular life (which is quite monastic all on it's own). I guess for right now I'm not yearning FOR Fruition/Awakening to happen soon, but that could change and yep, it would change everything.

    Gassho :)
    howChazJeffreylobster
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    @Chaz and all. I haven't given up on enlightenment. Rather I have noticed that I was outside of the present. It's really difficult for me to explain. It was uplifting.

    It's like I was building this raft for days and days and getting tired of it all because it kept falling apart whenever I tried to take it to the sea. Then finally one day I took a vacation from building the raft.

    Then from that day I was less burned out and I could build the raft with more joy and just let my ideas for how to make the raft more easy going and bubbling up from creativity.

    Recall the Heart Sutra .....
    There is no attainment and no non-attainment ....

    Therefore, Sariputra, since the bodhisattvas have no attainment, they abide relying on the perfection of wisdom. Having no defilements in their minds, they have no fear, and passing completely beyond error, they reach nirvana. Likewise, all the Buddhas abiding in the three times clearly and completely awaken to unexcelled, authentic, and complete awakening in dependence upon the perfection of wisdom.
    Jeffrey
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    I like that @Hamsaka....trust the process!
    lobster
  • Then finally one day I took a vacation from building the raft.
    Row, row, row your boat . . .
    Bunks
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    It's a funny thing when we drop our concepts realizing our thinking is just that and all we have is the moment, we may still grasp but we know it does not do any good. I may never know nibbana but I know what mindfulness and having a loving compassionate heart can achieve. So it goes, keep on keeping on, enlightenment is not my concern.
    lobster
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