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Superstition: can't seem to shake it

Sorry for another seemingly obsessive-compulsive and over-thought issue, bordering on idiotic. :o However, this is undoubtedly a holdover from my days of being indoctrinated by Hindu dogma and polytheism.

1. I like mythological stories because they have lessons to teach; one just has to look for them. For example, I like stories in the various puranas because 1: some of them are hilarious, and 2. the aforementioned lessons (there's a hilarious humdinger story about the marriage of Shiva and Parvati and how you can't judge a book by its cover; another one about Krishna, Arjuna and how mental devotion is more important than ritual).

2. From an early age, teens, I was drawn to the pantheon of Hindu deities mostly because they are so damn colorful, in appearance and mythology. Admittedly I like the pretty pictures and statues, and have them all over the place.

3. However, it's gotten out of hand for a couple of reasons:

3a. I don't identify as Hindu anymore because the dogma and doctrines don't sit well with me; I identify as Buddhist, Amitabha Pure Land to be precise.

3b. I have a shrine, which I acknowledge is not necessary and may be a hindrance to practice of Pure Land, unless it were devoted solely to Amitabha, Mahasthamaprapta and Avalokitesvara, and perhaps Tara, Medicine Buddha, and of course Shakyamuni Buddha. But it is not that. I have images of those deities I feel I "have to have"... Ganesha, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Narasimha (Vishnu's protector form), Hanuman, even the Taoist deities Guan yu and Xuan wu (protectors).

4. I wear a pendant of Hanuman because I feel he is my strength and courage patron. I also wear one of Mjolnir, Thor's hammer simply as a symbol of strength. I have felt, especially in my "Hindu days" that the deities have helped me: Lakshmi providing financial resources when seriously needed; Ganesha removing serious obstacles, Hanuman when I needed strength and courage, and such.

5. The superstition comes in because I haven't been able to divorce myself from holding onto the belief that I have to enshrine them lest I offend them. This in spite of coming to believe they are not all-powerful "God", but simply higher beings and probably personifications of natural events. Most importantly, I don't pray to them. They are simply there.

6. Do I make a cold turkey break with the superstition of enshrining these deities, and feeling like it's a slap in their faces if they have indeed helped me?

7. I'm sure I've answered my own question by this extensive (even for me :p ) brainfart: get rid of, or at least pare down the shrine to my basic Pure Land beliefs.

What say you? :)

Comments

  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    One of my favorite stories about superstition is from Ajahn Chah in Thailand. A layman came to him and stated that he had been drafted into the army and would most likely die. He pleaded for Ajahn Chah for a blessed buddha necklace that would help stop bullets.

    Ajahn Chah told him multiple times that there was no such buddha that could do that, but when the man persisted Chah relented and told him that they had a buddha that could stop bullets. He brought the man to the big buddha statue in the courtyard! Lol

    Theres another similar story of a general asking for holy water and Chah spit on him, stating that he now had his holy water.

    Ya know what i did at a young age? I took the superstitions in my culture and adopted them. Friday the 13th? Favorite day of the month! Ladder? Do the moonwalk under that thing. Ya know what happened? Nothing.

    My experience has shown me that the negative or positive state of your mind has a lot more to do with how your day turns out then external superstition. Own those things, cultivate a positive mindstate, and any percieved power superstitions have will evaporate.
    Jainarayan
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Sorry, can't keep it in:

  • jaejae Veteran
    @anataman.... hahahahh ~Ahhhh monkey!! The water margin was better!
    federicaTosh
  • jaejae Veteran
    PS could have done with a couple of his headbands when the kids were younger.
  • Jayantha said:

    My experience has shown me that the negative or positive state of your mind has a lot more to do with how your day turns out then external superstition. Own those things, cultivate a positive mindstate, and any percieved power superstitions have will evaporate.

    I think you are right. We can create our own realities by how we perceive things. I learned not to do the "oh woe is me! my life sucks!" routine. I do prefer to see the positive in things, and even say "oh well, shit happens" if things don't go my way. I also know deep down that events that happen were set in motion long ago, dependent origin. Nothing happens in a vacuum, nothing happens on its own. This is why I thought I answered my own question, but as usual, sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees and need 3rd party more experienced eyes. :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2014


    3b. .....I have images of those deities I feel I "have to have"... Ganesha, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Narasimha (Vishnu's protector form), Hanuman, even the Taoist deities Guan yu and Xuan wu (protectors).

    4. I wear a pendant of Hanuman .... I also wear one of Mjolnir, Thor's hammer simply as a symbol of strength. I have felt, especially in my "Hindu days" that the deities have helped me: Lakshmi providing financial resources when seriously needed; Ganesha removing serious obstacles, Hanuman when I needed strength and courage, and such.

    5. The superstition comes in because I haven't been able to divorce myself from holding onto the belief that I have to enshrine them lest I offend them. This in spite of coming to believe they are not all-powerful "God", but simply higher beings and probably personifications of natural events. Most importantly, I don't pray to them. They are simply there.

    6. Do I make a cold turkey break with the superstition of enshrining these deities, and feeling like it's a slap in their faces if they have indeed helped me?

    Sometimes, attachment requires a quick and simple, yet effective method of separation; Kinda like ripping the band-aid off... or waxing..... :D

    However, if being thus attached, bothers you, make a determined effort to pass these images on to others, as gifts or decorative items, to people who would appreciate them and be grateful for your giving.

    Resolve to give one item away per month. The day before you do, make your peace with it, thank it for its support and company, but that now, it is time for it to move on to newer pastures where it will be appreciated and treasured.
    And say goodbye.

    Once done, wrap it tastefully, finish with a bow, write a gift card, and put it by your entrance door.
    The following day, when you go out, take it with you and give it to the intended recipient. If necessary, make a prior arrangement to meet them for coffee, or have them come to you.....

    But in this way, you release and relinquish, yet harbour Goodness, loving Kindness and generosity at the same time.

    Gotta love ya for it!

    jaeHamsaka
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited January 2014
    @Jainarayan -- My vote is to hold onto whatever floats your boat. If you like statues and talismans, go ahead -- hold on. If you like Buddhist texts and rituals -- go ahead, hold on. Don't make a big deal out of it ... if it helps for the moment, OK.

    But keep up your practice, whatever it is. With practice, there is no real need to push things away, any more than there is any real need to grasp them. With practice, things walk away all by themselves. It's nothing fancy or magical, it's just what happens with practice.

    Or anyway, that's my vote.
    ChazJeffreyHamsaka
  • @Jainarayan said:
    Do I make a cold turkey break with the superstition of enshrining these deities, and feeling like it's a slap in their faces if they have indeed helped me?
    I don't know about deities but my teacher said Buddhas and Bodhisattvas no longer have egos so Amitabha wouldn't feel slighted if you put a statue of a different Buddha or Bodhissattva instead of him. Even if you don't have any altar for him, he wouldn't get upset with you, he wouldn't feel like it's a slap on his face. :) Buddhas are above all that.
    JainarayananatamanlobsterParlaDharma
  • federica said:


    Sometimes, attachment requires a quick and simple, yet effective method of separation; Kinda like ripping the band-aid off... or waxing..... :D

    Lol. :D

    I have wrapped and boxed some over the course of time. The others I have around mostly because they're pretty, but more because they are reminders of lessons. For example, though I've never been drawn to Rama as a deity even having been Vaishnava, I have a small scene of Rama, Sita, Lakshmana and Hanuman that reminds me of doing one's duty against all odds, and devotion to a cause.
    federica said:

    Gotta love ya for it!

    Thanks. ;)
  • genkaku said:

    @Jainarayan -- My vote is to hold onto whatever floats your boat. If you like statues and talismans, go ahead -- hold on. If you like Buddhist texts and rituals -- go ahead, hold on. Don't make a big deal out of it ... if it helps for the moment, OK.

    But keep up your practice, whatever it is. With practice, there is no real need to push things away, any more than there is any real need to grasp them. With practice, things walk away all by themselves. It's nothing fancy or magical, it's just what happens with practice.

    Or anyway, that's my vote.

    My concern is that focusing on the material aspect is keeping me from practice. I've been overly fixated on performing small rituals, saying the right prayers and mantras, etc. I do indeed have ocpd, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (somewhat different than ocd), general anxiety disorder and low end Asperger's. Yes, I'm a mess, but as I said before "shit happens". :D But therein lies my obsessing over it.
  • cvalue said:


    I don't know about deities but my teacher said Buddhas and Bodhisattvas no longer have egos so Amitabha wouldn't feel slighted if you put a statue of a different Buddha or Bodhissattva instead of him. Even if you don't have any altar for him, he wouldn't get upset with you, he wouldn't feel like it's a slap on his face. :) Buddhas are above all that.

    You are right... it's only our limited understanding, attachments and being bound to this world that tends to make some of us put the buddhas and bodhisattvas on our level of emotions.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @Jainarayan

    You don't have to think of superstition as something that needs to be held or rejected.
    You only need to put more priority on your practice than anything else.

    To the degree that you concentrate on your practice, is the degree to which the superfluous will simply lag farther and farther behind until it no longer connects to you.
    Jainarayanlobsterupekka
  • how said:

    @Jainarayan

    You don't have to think of superstition as something that needs to be held or rejected.
    You only need to put more priority on your practice than anything else.

    To the degree that you concentrate on your practice, is the degree to which the superfluous will simply lag farther and farther behind until it no longer connects to you.

    I see... so the image of Lakshmi, for example, could keep me mindful of being bestowed with good fortune (however it was done), and then pay it forward, which I always try to do; the image of Ganesha could remind me to help remove obstacles for others when and if I can. In this case they are aids to practice (skillful means?) not hindrances as long as they don't remain ends in themselves. Eventually I won't need them and can take the training wheels off.
    lobster
  • I still don't understand why you have to get rid of the statues? You just need to be sure to meditate. I agree with @how and @gengkaku.
  • Jeffrey said:

    I still don't understand why you have to get rid of the statues? You just need to be sure to meditate. I agree with @how and @gengkaku.

    Well, there's too many in the shrine for one thing. It became a matter of "we have to invite all the neighbors over for a bbq, even though we don't really socialize with them, but they're neighbors and we can't slight them". I know... it's :screwy: But I think I can handle the sort of thing I said in my last post.
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    genkaku said:

    @Jainarayan -- My vote is to hold onto whatever floats your boat. If you like statues and talismans, go ahead -- hold on. If you like Buddhist texts and rituals -- go ahead, hold on. Don't make a big deal out of it ... if it helps for the moment, OK.

    But keep up your practice, whatever it is. With practice, there is no real need to push things away, any more than there is any real need to grasp them. With practice, things walk away all by themselves. It's nothing fancy or magical, it's just what happens with practice.

    Or anyway, that's my vote.

    My concern is that focusing on the material aspect is keeping me from practice. I've been overly fixated on performing small rituals, saying the right prayers and mantras, etc. I do indeed have ocpd, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (somewhat different than ocd), general anxiety disorder and low end Asperger's. Yes, I'm a mess, but as I said before "shit happens". :D But therein lies my obsessing over it.
    Sorry to hear about your OCPD @Jainarayan.

    My mother in law also has it. It is quite debilitating.
  • Bunks said:



    Sorry to hear about your OCPD @Jainarayan.

    My mother in law also has it. It is quite debilitating.

    Thanks. Yes, it's hard for people to understand, and often annoying to them. On a weightlifting site I've been a member of for 11 years, I was publically ripped a new one and seriously put down by another member. This was because over the years, situations change, your body changes, routines and diet needs to change, you recover from injuries (back and major rotator cuff). I asked for advice, which I helpfully got from a lot of people. But I was ripped apart by one person:

    Me:
    Btw, when we say per lb of body weight, is it lean body weight, total body weight, or goal body weight? I could never get it right.
    Him:
    It doesn't matter. You come on this forum year in and year out and never change. You are a huge waste of everyone's time. You have not changed since I have been here and you never will. You are not a bodybuilder. You are not really anything but a whining, crying, excuse making, weak man and you will probably leave the forum for a year after reading this post like the last time I called you out.

    Give it a rest already, your game of getting attention here is pretty much played out.
    I felt humiliated. Actually I have made significant changes... 137 lbs soaking wet to 200 lbs (not all of it fat :p ). I said he was probably right about me, and I'm sure others think the same thing, but they never said it.

    The point is that it can be annoying to ourselves and to others, causing them to lose their patience and lash out when things tend to either not sink in, and/or you repeatedly question yourself and ask for validation. Couple that with bipolar depression, and you have... well, things like my first post above.

    That was probably more than anyone needed to know, but it's an example of how it can sometimes antagonize people; me, it sent into a nose-dive because the truth does indeed hurt.


    HamsakaBunks
  • NeleNele Veteran
    Jainarayan, whether you annoyed that person or not, his reaction seems hurtful and extreme. I'm surprised no one called him out for his rudeness. In the future, consider ignoring such responses and maybe sending some loving kindness his way. No need to invite a pile-on by saying he was probably right!
    lobsterjae
  • Nele said:

    Jainarayan, whether you annoyed that person or not, his reaction seems hurtful and extreme. I'm surprised no one called him out for his rudeness.

    I'm not surprised, because the conversation picked up as if it were never interrupted. The other people just kept conversing with me, they completely ignored him and kept it from derailing. He did look like a fool. Doing something like he did does say more about him.
    In the future, consider ignoring such responses and maybe sending some loving kindness his way. No need to invite a pile-on by saying he was probably right!
    I do have compassion for him... no one should be burdened with such anger. After I told him he was probably right, I never heard another word from him. I think he was expecting the Mother of All Flame Wars, but I would not play. I think I stole his thunder. :)
    cvaluelobsterjae
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    :coffee:
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    Why is "superstition" bad?
  • Why is "superstition" bad?

    A little superstition here and there is OK I guess, but I let it get out of hand. It's bad when you let it run your life like I've been doing.
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    You've gotten some great feedback @Jainarayan already. Here's some more for what it's worth :)

    I'm not sure how old you are, not that it matters unless you are young (like, less than 28) but plain old life experience shows you that some things that are EXTREMELY important can sort fade away on their own over the years. This happens because as a person gets older, they understand deeper and place priorities differently. This all happens naturally under the surface of daily awareness. The natural process of growth and human evolution TRIES to happen in all persons, I think, and this deep process is the reason why suddenly something previously important is not so anymore.

    Having OCPD and other mental issues slows down the maturing process a bit, no judgment implied, it's just that you struggle twice as hard as people without the issues to do the same darn thing every day of your life :) . Life lessons take a bit longer, but you get there. Certainly as your practice grows you'll catch up and surpass those who don't practice something, your capacity is no different.

    Right now the ATTACHMENT you have to the Hindu gods, at least from your words, is very strong and 'cold turkey' sounds like a recipe for some panic, no? Even though intellectually you might not believe your emotions, emotions are stronger than the intellect.

    I'm with the others who suggest you just PRACTICE and not stress out over the gods you still need around. Why not? If you weren't a bit on the fragile side with anxiety, a pure all out surrender or renunciation might work well, but these gods over time have come to mean stability and strength to you that you worked hard to build.

    I don't know if you've ever heard of Joseph Campbell. He wrote a book about world mythology and the psychological processes (more recently discovered) that parallel these myths. His point was these 'gods' are actual mental phenomena, and real, but symbolic rather than actual beings. All the great myths and fairy tales of various cultures are descriptions of deep psychological movements in the personal and collective psyche. They are not BAD. They are just a natural *thing* that human minds manifest to make sense of the world.

    What does it hurt to devote some time to your special Hindu gods? Only you can answer that.

    My point is there are many many ways to relate to your dilemma, rather than 'should they stay, should they go." Usually either extreme is not the answer, it's somewhere in the grey areas and very personal.

    Gassho :)
    JainarayanJeffreylobstercvalue
  • @Hamsaka, I don't know what to say except, just wow. That was awesome and highly insightful. :) You hit the nail othe head. I will definitely take more time to digest it. Briefly I can say I see the point about the gods being mental phenomena and symbolic. I alluded to it referring to them as personifications of natural forces, maybe even as projections of aspects of myself. Unfortunately I anthropomorphized them too much. If they do represent my better aspects, then I can live with it... keeping me mindful of dharma, not beings I need to worry about insulting.
  • If they do represent my better aspects, then I can live with it... keeping me mindful of dharma, not beings I need to worry about insulting.
    :clap:

    Now you gets it. Why insult our selves? Thank you gods, I haz a Buddha box for you . . . Kiss them goodnight . . . night Ganesha, night Lakshmi.

    Do you have a little garden they can go in? Maybe your shrine can be partly a closed box, supporting the Buddha?

    Gotta luv them dolls . . . :buck:
    JainarayanKundo
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @Hamsaka, I don't know what to say except, just wow. That was awesome and highly insightful. :) You hit the nail othe head. I will definitely take more time to digest it. Briefly I can say I see the point about the gods being mental phenomena and symbolic. I alluded to it referring to them as personifications of natural forces, maybe even as projections of aspects of myself. Unfortunately I anthropomorphized them too much. If they do represent my better aspects, then I can live with it... keeping me mindful of dharma, not beings I need to worry about insulting.

    By anthropomorphism do you mean you made them too human-ish? Like they are a group of psychological aunties and cousins sitting in your field of awareness watching every move you make (and supplying commentary :D )? I don't know how we can NOT anthropomorphize the gods, seeing that we can't conceive of anything that is not 'us'.

    When I was about ten I became obsessed -- literally -- with Greek mythology, the pantheon of gods and goddesses, their stories. They misbehaved and did stupid, rude things a lot. They made big mistakes and got bent out of shape when some human boasted (or demonstrated) abilities or looks better than theirs. What little I studied of the gods of other cultures, Norse or Hindu or the Santeria, they too were subject to very human foibles like pride and greed.

    Maybe you need to 'improve' your relationship to them in some way? Get more intimate with them, maybe more personable, respectful but friendlier? Gods routinely have a sense of humor, and since they wouldn't be 'gods' without US they need us too. If they didn't need us, why would they bother? Just to have a bunch of bald monkeys worshiping them? Even a human being would get bored with that before long!

    Yeah, maybe GO INTO IT further, rather than toss them aside, they're obviously important and helpful, you know best how.

    Gassho :)
  • Yes, that's how I mean it... too human. But so human they'd be capable of being insulted. Not vengeful, because all the stories show them to be fun loving and even mischievous. But I suppose that respect and reverence don't necessarily require 108,000 prostrations.
  • I was obsessed with mythology also when I was small. Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Demeter, Hestia, Hera, Apollo, Hermes, Athena, Ares, Dionysus, Artemis, Hephaestus


  • respect and reverence don't necessarily require 108,000 prostrations.

    what exactly does '108' mean?

    pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain feeling (3)

    eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind (6)

    (6X3)=18

    present, past, future (3)

    (18X3)=54

    internal, external (2)

    (54X2)=108

    if you do prostration with knowing what you are doing it is mindfulness (Right Mindfulness) which brings the calmness (Right Concentration) to the mind

    Concentration meditation (samatha) + Insight meditation (vipassana) will help to arise Wisdom




    :)
    Jainarayancvalue
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Yeah, I can't shake my superstitions either. All of you will probably chuckle at me, but since I grew up in a vast, densely forested area which also contained large marshes I'm still a firm believer that the forest is not all that it appears. Even if I try to rationalize things myself I find that I still give Fairy-rings a wide berth, that I still sing or hum a tune while walking through the forest because I was taught that fairies and forest-kin liked music and that it was protection for travelers. I have also seen a few Will-o-the-wisps in the marshes. I have no idea what they are exactly, but I know never to follow them. Though, you're not supposed to follow them because wandering off a trail into the marsh at night is dangerous in and of itself.
    JeffreycvalueKundo
  • upekka said:



    respect and reverence don't necessarily require 108,000 prostrations.

    what exactly does '108' mean?

    pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain feeling (3)

    eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind (6)

    (6X3)=18

    present, past, future (3)

    (18X3)=54

    internal, external (2)

    (54X2)=108

    if you do prostration with knowing what you are doing it is mindfulness (Right Mindfulness) which brings the calmness (Right Concentration) to the mind

    Concentration meditation (samatha) + Insight meditation (vipassana) will help to arise Wisdom




    :)
    I never knew the significance of 108. Thanks. :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2014
    It's one interpretation I was unaware of too, but not the only one, I believe.

    I don't let superstitions get to me, and never will, touch wood......


    (see what I did there.....? ;) )

    :D

    JainarayanKundo
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited January 2014
    Since you have Ganesha in your shrine perhaps the problem can solve itself.

    As far as I can tell, the gods only have as much power as we give them.
    Jainarayan
  • Well, I seem to have de-over-thought this (wait, wut!? :wtf: ). I didn't actually pare down the shrine (sorry if I gave the impression it's something like St. Peter's Basilica... it's not), but I took a good look at it and realized that I have representations of buddhas, bodhisattvas, gods and goddesses that reflect qualities of my (temporary and non-permanent :p ) existence I strive for. This should help me be mindful and use skillful means.

    As @Hamsaka rightly suggested, I am a little slow on the uptake due to my cluster of disorders. It takes a little while longer for things to settle in my head, though ironically as far as facts, I am a quick study.

    There's a saying (not sure if it's Hindi or Sanskrit): "Jāki rahi bhāvanā jaisi prabhu mūrat dekhi tin taisi" (everyone sees God in their own way). Now, we don't necessarily have to use 'God', but it might be reworked to something like "everyone sees themselves and the world and comes to enlightenment in their own way".

    I want to thank everyone for patiently offering great advice and opinions and giving me a lot to think about... rather, meditate on for growth and discovery. :)
    JeffreyBunks
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