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ACLU filed lawsuit against a public school for religious harassment
As I see it no country or place has a copyright on ignorance. I live in New England and was once accused of being a satanist because of my Buddhist beliefs. Regardless I can't help while reading this thread to think about the fourth precept, to refrain from false, harsh or idle speech.
Metta to all
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I apologise if my comments upset you, and anyone else. It's just that this site, being predominantly American, seems to bring much bad news, frequently - and from the USA to boot.....
So I can only go by what you guys tell us....
But it's our country and not your's. Yes, it's pretty screwed up sometimes and in some places. We have big problems, but were dealing with it. This BS about Louisiana isn't even a miniscule blip on the national radar. It barely qualifies as news. We have much bigger fish to fry and our elections are still a ways off.
England isn't exactly lilly-white, Fede. When you Brits clean up your collective act then you can disaparage ours.
And not only were your comments upsetting, they were acutely insulting. If you want to say that you don't want to visit and then declare that you didn't really mean it, then stay the hell out. I, for one, would much rather entertain someone who demonstrates some integrity in thier opinion, even if I find it repugnant.
I take on board your comments about opinions regarding countries and problems. but don't make this personal.
I didn't say I didn't want to visit, I said I was glad I didn't live there. But I apologised. if you're not willing to accept it, that's your problem. Please quit with the personal stuff, It's very unseemly....
And other than a few cranks, I cannot remember meeting any racists while living in Georgia. It's a pretty diverse state, and most Americans really just don't care that much about skin color.
Into the early 1900s Denver was a "Klan town".
I live about a mile from the building that housed Colorado's KKK headquarters.
Just north of that building is Ruby Hill. The Klan would have regular cross burnings there. It has a commanding view of the city. You could see those cross burnings for quite a distance.
The Klan is gone from the city - at least for the most part - and cross burnings on Ruby Hill are no more. It's a nieghborhood of mixed race and ethicty and today Ruby Hill is a city park. Children - whites, blacks, latinos - play on the same ground where crosses were once burned.
Given time even hatred changes. Everything that arises, disolves.
Yes, when what you see in the news is the exception and when we know ignorant beliefs like racism still exist, sometimes it's hard to keep the overall picture in mind. Today's generation in the USA is increasingly impatient with racist and bigoted beliefs. My own race, European white, is no longer the majority in many parts of the country so we're already in the middle of a cultural shift.
Tribal instinct is so powerful, people don't even realize it drives much of what we call culture and society. Perceived threats to how people define their tribe (skin color, religion, language, social status, etc) is the main cause of conflict.
I apologise if my comments upset you, and anyone else. It's just that this site, being predominantly American, seems to bring much bad news, frequently - and from the USA to boot.....
So I can only go by what you guys tell us....
But it's our country and not your's. Yes, it's pretty screwed up sometimes and in some places. We have big problems, but were dealing with it. This BS about Louisiana isn't even a miniscule blip on the national radar. It barely qualifies as news. We have much bigger fish to fry and our elections are still a ways off.
England isn't exactly lilly-white, Fede. When you Brits clean up your collective act then you can disaparage ours.
And not only were your comments upsetting, they were acutely insulting. If you want to say that you don't want to visit and then declare that you didn't really mean it, then stay the hell out. I, for one, would much rather entertain someone who demonstrates some integrity in thier opinion, even if I find it repugnant.
I take on board your comments about opinions regarding countries and problems. but don't make this personal.
I didn't say I didn't want to visit, I said I was glad I didn't live there. But I apologised.
To live here you have to come here.
I'd prefer that you stay away.
if you're not willing to accept it, that's your problem.
Your apology doesn't undo what you said. It doesn't undo your blinkered, and dare I say predjudiced, vitriol.
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
I apologise if my comments upset you, and anyone else. It's just that this site, being predominantly American, seems to bring much bad news, frequently - and from the USA to boot.....
So I can only go by what you guys tell us....
But it's our country and not your's. Yes, it's pretty screwed up sometimes and in some places. We have big problems, but were dealing with it. This BS about Louisiana isn't even a miniscule blip on the national radar. It barely qualifies as news. We have much bigger fish to fry and our elections are still a ways off.
England isn't exactly lilly-white, Fede. When you Brits clean up your collective act then you can disaparage ours.
And not only were your comments upsetting, they were acutely insulting. If you want to say that you don't want to visit and then declare that you didn't really mean it, then stay the hell out. I, for one, would much rather entertain someone who demonstrates some integrity in thier opinion, even if I find it repugnant.
I take on board your comments about opinions regarding countries and problems. but don't make this personal.
I didn't say I didn't want to visit, I said I was glad I didn't live there. But I apologised.
To live here you have to come here.
I'd prefer that you stay away.
if you're not willing to accept it, that's your problem.
Your apology doesn't undo what you said. It doesn't undo your blinkered, and dare I say predjudiced, vitriol.
Unseemly ;-)
Take it easy. I wouldn't want to live there either. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in the UK.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I'm beginning to see why..... living here as I do.
Take it easy. I wouldn't want to live there either. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in the UK.
Yeah, you're right. Sometimes I get a little ..... well ...... you know .....
And I'd like to add .... if Fede thinks this is a bad place to live (even though she'd love the tax structure) I'd offer Wansutter, Wyoming. If there is a Bright Center to The Universe, Wamsutter is about as far from it as you can get.
It's an awful place. Just stopping for gas and a cup of coffee would make religious harrassment seem like fun. You can get religious harrassment anywhere, even in England. There is no dark evil on Earth like Wamsutter.
And as far as England goes, I' don't know if I could live there, but I'd welcome the opportunity to give it a try. Another consultant at my current assignment and I were talking yesterday about the ho-hum places we get job offers for, but never contracts in someplace unusual and cool, like, say, London. I'd take a long-term contract in England in a heartbeat. I'd probably get homesick for real mountains and thin air, but I'm sure I could suffer though bland food, warm beer and delightful accents for a year.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited January 2014
I have to say, it's not as picturesque as some places I've seen, and I'm guessing that's the least of its problems....
Look Chaz, I'm sorry if what I said rubbed you up the wrong way. But we get a lot of 'extreme' news stories on this site, but I can't say I've found sufficient equivalent scandals pertaining to the UK. I'm sorry, I haven't. I tend to steer clear of the gutter press (The Daily Mail, The Mirror, The Sun) because out of say, a fifteen-column story, you can probably take an inch out of it and hazard a guess that bit's accurate.
I also know very little about the US tax structure, but I do know that although it would appear that the UK economy is finally on an upturn, the effects of the recession are predicted to last until two further generations make it to adulthood, and in order for salaries to become commensurate with the cost of living, they'd have to rise - right now - by around 40%. I have no such worry, having lost my job 2 weeks ago, and I know finding another one at my age will be hard. So yeah, I think it's relative, but schytt happens everywhere.
Maybe it's just magnified because the USA is so much bigger, and as such people seem to have more extreme views with wider-reaching consequences? I don't know. But a high proportion of news stories brought here, via links, come from the USA. How can one not react to them?
Our biggest problem in the states is not isolated quackery and religious hustling, but the creeping bureaucracy that infects all aspects of life, property, and business. When a local school board or council makes an insane ruling, the effects are mercifully restrained to that locality. The bigger concern is a national government that makes capricious rulings and regulations that affect the entire populace; micro regulation of lemonade stands, a Byzantine legal and permit system, and an incomprehensible and onerous tax code. Racism is the least of our concerns.
Yes, we're all away of the FOX news viewpoint of America and its problem.
But racism is only "the least of our concerns" for Whites.
Now now, lets be fair and balanced here.
Fox = righties/Bush apologist Msnbc= lefties/obama apologist Cnn= pretends to be independent but moderately left at minimum.
I dont follow news anymore, but back in the day i would watch all three of those channels to try and find the real truth in the middle somewhere.
These days if i want news i have a bbc and al jezera aps on my phone. No corporate news is unbiased, but i trust outsiders more in a way. The news organization id probably trust with my life though is Reason Magazine, they are as independent as any news can be.
I pretty much agree with your analysis of the cable news stations. I mostly watch CNN. Occasionally I will watch some specific program on MSNBC, but their "political programming" is as far left as FOX is far right. I do suffer through FOX News when I take my car in for repair. They always have FOX News on the t.v. in the waiting room...and I always wonder if I have crossed into some alternate universe.
True, a lot here has been on the negative side. But to understand, is it right to silence what one has experianced of hatred? Or do we hide it and let the ugliness fester under cosmetic illusion?
I am right there with everyone in hoping the teacher is fired and the school punished, but the story is used as an excuse for the shrill paranoia of saying we're an election away from the Klan, that the South is still a Jim Crow bastion, and trotting out whatever sins they hold an entire region and country responsible. I'm all for criticizing countries and cultures, but it's rich when it comes from the self-righteous non-judgers, most of whom have never spent time living in the south.
I was stationed at Barksdale A.F.B. Dec. 79-83. I spent a summer at the annual boy scout jamboree, and discovered that the regions Klan' top recruiter was 15. He tried to recruit me, but failed. It was a continual thing until I left. But, I sense you have a much pained heart in this issue. But, even with the pain, the truth is evident, and the truth dictates we have much to teach the people, and each other.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
If we're going to comment, I suggest we 'limit' our opinions to focus centrally on this specific news story and what, as buddhists we might take from it and learn. We're all going a bit off-topic here, and behaving like loose cannons. I include myself.
Let's stick to topic and find serenity simultaneously, shall we...?
What strikes me as unfortunate is that people who are entrusted to care for the welfare of children would deal with a child in such a manner. As a nurse there much I see and disagree with in the decisions people make (some that are incredibly harmful and violent) and how they lead their lives, yet my job is not judge them but to help them. I could not treat them with anything but dignity and respect, it's a shame the staff here could not muster up the capacity to see beyond their narrow opinions.
The first thing I thought of was who is the principal of that school.
Here's what a bad principal does (and I have worked under such people): when they get ready to hire a staff member, they look for a person as much like themselves as possible. And that way, they have a staff that looks and thinks pretty much alike...which is bad for kids that don't look and think pretty much a like.
A good principal, when he or she gets ready to hire a staff member looks for variety. He or she has to understand what his staff currently is. Does he look for a different teaching style for this hire? A different race? Someone who is suited to a particular -- and different -- type of student? Someone who, in regard to teaching, is liberal or conservative?
If you have a diverse staff (and I don't just mean racially), the kind of thing that happened here is very unlikely to happen).
Problem here in the USA is that our public schools, who gets hired and their policies, are all subject to local and state politics. Some of our states have gotten pretty extreme in their right wing appeal to folks who have been taught their religion is under attack. Getting Christianity back into the government, courts and schools has become something of a crusade for politicians who know how to get their side to the voting booths. But then, that's democracy for you.
Yes, local...even in a Fed building here ..... :grumble: The last two meetings about diversity ended with me walking out bec Christians were repeating incorrect facts about how they are the new 'minority', and are being kept from being religious...I left and sent a friendly e-mail with correct statistics....you cant do better until you know better...hahaha
There are only about 4-5 'non-believers' that I know of in the whole building (couple hundred people) and we have had to get 'legal' advice many times..... Mostly by the freethinker organizations....No one here has filed a lawsuit, though it has been discussed. I won't even consider something that drastic bec of what's happening to whistleblowers...hahaha. I need my good government job...hahaha
I have had to step in on school issues with all of my kids. 'Mommy, why are we going to hell'?.....parties being religious, stuff like that.
For what's it worth....my practice has benefited more from living here than anywhere else, hehe.
Yes, local...even in a Fed building here ..... :grumble: The last two meetings about diversity ended with me walking out bec Christians were repeating incorrect facts about how they are the new 'minority', and are being kept from being religious...I left and sent a friendly e-mail with correct statistics....you cant do better until you know better...hahaha
There are only about 4-5 'non-believers' that I know of in the whole building (couple hundred people) and we have had to get 'legal' advice many times..... Mostly by the freethinker organizations....No one here has filed a lawsuit, though it has been discussed. I won't even consider something that drastic bec of what's happening to whistleblowers...hahaha. I need my good government job...hahaha
I have had to step in on school issues with all of my kids. 'Mommy, why are we going to hell'?.....parties being religious, stuff like that.
For what's it worth....my practice has benefited more from living here than anywhere else, hehe.
*steps off soapbox*
If it's that bad, leave the state.
The facts may be on your side, but the politcs of your workplace and school district apparently aren't.
^^^ I'll try to get that move underway.....Wanna buy a house? Housing market is shitty here.......Got a job for me? ...Seriously....we are not here for the long term....But the issues in the OP still stand. Moving doesn't really address the social issues. Conflict resolution includes getting everyone on board. Is me moving the only option? What about religious equality and free to practice what we want....no?
^^^ I'll try to get that move underway.....Wanna buy a house? Housing market is shitty here.......Got a job for me? ...Seriously....we are not here for the long term....But the issues in the OP still stand. Moving doesn't really address the social issues. Conflict resolution includes getting everyone on board. Is me moving the only option? What about religious equality and free to practice what we want....no?
Why Colorado of all places, If I may ask?
It's nice here. Cool place to live.
I used to work at a place in Denver owned by several men who belinged to Promise Keepers. Even that place was pretty cool.
Sure, you're free to practice what you want, and you haven't described a situation where your freedom is actually restricted. Being beset by evangelicals doesn't infringe your rights. They may be annoying but you have no constitutional protections from annoyances. If your workplace is a problem, you have three choices - blow the whistle, quit, or live with the annoyance.
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
Or Australia - now that we're winning the cricket again
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
Or Australia - now that we're winning the cricket again
What's cricket? Is that the Aussie word for hockey?
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
Or Australia - now that we're winning the cricket again
What's cricket? Is that the Aussie word for hockey?
Wash your mouth out!!!! :P
It's pretty boring actually.
1
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
Or Australia - now that we're winning the cricket again
What's cricket? Is that the Aussie word for hockey?
For that matter, what's hockey? Is that Canadian for Baseball?
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
I looked at it (have Norton and Malwarebytes), got a mild warning, but it's a rather cute site that shows a picture of the US states and what the google results for "(state) wants" on each state. It's quite funny.
I think how the site works is by keyword search ing for most used phrases. It sort of looks at all the print/ texts/ blogs or whatever in English and finds the most repeated phrases refering to that state. sort of collective slander i suppose. i am not sure this is correct though. Yes Hamsaka it is very silly but fun. Sorry Vinlyn , I am not good at this. This is my first link i have put on new buddhist and I seem to have failed.... I try again someday.
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Sorry to burst your bubble @Jayantha but NZ has just as many social and political issues as any other country you'll visit.
I used to have to sit through evenings with my in-laws listening to rich white men tell me how much of a better country NZ would be if there were no Maori's or Islanders blah, blah, blah......
ya know what I forgot to say? the best country isn't USA or UK.. It's NZ!(go All Blacks and lord of the rings!)... I'm moving to Middle Earth, later :P * puts on wizards hat*
Another sad case of someone not spending enough time in Canada.
Or Australia - now that we're winning the cricket again
What's cricket? Is that the Aussie word for hockey?
Wash your mouth out!!!! :P
It's pretty boring actually.
Cricket rocks!! Especially when we are smashing the English!
Transposition of the negative neutrino causing an overlap of the doddle over the tropic of cancer which shifts the spring equinox from Vancouver to Darby.
Comments
Metta to all
but don't make this personal.
I didn't say I didn't want to visit, I said I was glad I didn't live there.
But I apologised.
if you're not willing to accept it, that's your problem.
Please quit with the personal stuff,
It's very unseemly....
Tribal instinct is so powerful, people don't even realize it drives much of what we call culture and society. Perceived threats to how people define their tribe (skin color, religion, language, social status, etc) is the main cause of conflict.
I'd prefer that you stay away.
Your apology doesn't undo what you said. It doesn't undo your blinkered, and dare I say predjudiced, vitriol.
Unseemly ;-)
Unseemly ;-)
Take it easy.
I wouldn't want to live there either.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in the UK.
And I'd like to add .... if Fede thinks this is a bad place to live (even though she'd love the tax structure) I'd offer Wansutter, Wyoming. If there is a Bright Center to The Universe, Wamsutter is about as far from it as you can get.
It's an awful place. Just stopping for gas and a cup of coffee would make religious harrassment seem like fun. You can get religious harrassment anywhere, even in England. There is no dark evil on Earth like Wamsutter.
And as far as England goes, I' don't know if I could live there, but I'd welcome the opportunity to give it a try. Another consultant at my current assignment and I were talking yesterday about the ho-hum places we get job offers for, but never contracts in someplace unusual and cool, like, say, London. I'd take a long-term contract in England in a heartbeat. I'd probably get homesick for real mountains and thin air, but I'm sure I could suffer though bland food, warm beer and delightful accents for a year.
Look Chaz, I'm sorry if what I said rubbed you up the wrong way.
But we get a lot of 'extreme' news stories on this site, but I can't say I've found sufficient equivalent scandals pertaining to the UK. I'm sorry, I haven't.
I tend to steer clear of the gutter press (The Daily Mail, The Mirror, The Sun) because out of say, a fifteen-column story, you can probably take an inch out of it and hazard a guess that bit's accurate.
I also know very little about the US tax structure, but I do know that although it would appear that the UK economy is finally on an upturn, the effects of the recession are predicted to last until two further generations make it to adulthood, and in order for salaries to become commensurate with the cost of living, they'd have to rise - right now - by around 40%.
I have no such worry, having lost my job 2 weeks ago, and I know finding another one at my age will be hard.
So yeah, I think it's relative, but schytt happens everywhere.
Maybe it's just magnified because the USA is so much bigger, and as such people seem to have more extreme views with wider-reaching consequences?
I don't know.
But a high proportion of news stories brought here, via links, come from the USA.
How can one not react to them?
But racism is only "the least of our concerns" for Whites.
Fox = righties/Bush apologist
Msnbc= lefties/obama apologist
Cnn= pretends to be independent but moderately left at minimum.
I dont follow news anymore, but back in the day i would watch all three of those channels to try and find the real truth in the middle somewhere.
These days if i want news i have a bbc and al jezera aps on my phone. No corporate news is unbiased, but i trust outsiders more in a way. The news organization id probably trust with my life though is Reason Magazine, they are as independent as any news can be.
I include myself.
Let's stick to topic and find serenity simultaneously, shall we...?
Thanks all.
As a nurse there much I see and disagree with in the decisions people make (some that are incredibly harmful and violent) and how they lead their lives, yet my job is not judge them but to help them.
I could not treat them with anything but dignity and respect, it's a shame the staff here could not muster up the capacity to see beyond their narrow opinions.
Here's what a bad principal does (and I have worked under such people): when they get ready to hire a staff member, they look for a person as much like themselves as possible. And that way, they have a staff that looks and thinks pretty much alike...which is bad for kids that don't look and think pretty much a like.
A good principal, when he or she gets ready to hire a staff member looks for variety. He or she has to understand what his staff currently is. Does he look for a different teaching style for this hire? A different race? Someone who is suited to a particular -- and different -- type of student? Someone who, in regard to teaching, is liberal or conservative?
If you have a diverse staff (and I don't just mean racially), the kind of thing that happened here is very unlikely to happen).
The last two meetings about diversity ended with me walking
out bec Christians were repeating incorrect facts about how they
are the new 'minority', and are being kept from being religious...I left
and sent a friendly e-mail with correct statistics....you cant do better
until you know better...hahaha
There are only about 4-5 'non-believers' that I know of in the whole
building (couple hundred people) and we have had to get 'legal' advice
many times..... Mostly by the freethinker organizations....No one here has filed
a lawsuit, though it has been discussed. I won't even consider something that
drastic bec of what's happening to whistleblowers...hahaha. I need my good
government job...hahaha
I have had to step in on school issues with all of my kids. 'Mommy, why
are we going to hell'?.....parties being religious, stuff like that.
For what's it worth....my practice has benefited more from living
here than anywhere else, hehe.
*steps off soapbox*
The facts may be on your side, but the politcs of your workplace and school district apparently aren't.
You'd find Colorado a lot more to your liking.
Housing market is shitty here.......Got a job for me?
...Seriously....we are not here for the
long term....But the issues in the OP still stand. Moving
doesn't really address the social issues.
Conflict resolution includes getting everyone on board.
Is me moving the only option? What about religious
equality and free to practice what we want....no?
Why Colorado of all places, If I may ask?
I used to work at a place in Denver owned by several men who belinged to Promise Keepers. Even that place was pretty cool.
Sure, you're free to practice what you want, and you haven't described a situation where your freedom is actually restricted. Being beset by evangelicals doesn't infringe your rights. They may be annoying but you have no constitutional protections from annoyances. If your workplace is a problem, you have three choices - blow the whistle, quit, or live with the annoyance.
That's what I said. I'm not prepared to blow or quit.....so in my post...
Vastmind said....."For what's it worth....my practice has benefited more from living
here than anywhere else, hehe. "
....AKA learning to deal with the
annoyance.
Yes, rights are a problem....I'm not getting into
all that...bec I also said in my post " I'm not prepared to sue".
My post is just my experience and some 4 cents, that's all....
just sharing.....
Glad to hear it's more open where you are.
It's pretty boring actually.
For that matter, what's hockey? Is that Canadian for Baseball?
To those whom wish to understand the USA better.
I used to have to sit through evenings with my in-laws listening to rich white men tell me how much of a better country NZ would be if there were no Maori's or Islanders blah, blah, blah......
Nice scenery though.
:-/