Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Should i stop doing sitting meditation? please suggest.
Frankly, I think you'd make just as much progress by doing 1/2 hr. of meditation/day, rather than 1 hr.
When you do metta meditation, you visualize love radiating out from your heart to all beings. (Or follow whatever the text/lines you use say.) So at that point, you're not following the breath, your breathing should become automatic. You're focussing instead on the visualization you're doing. That might help you "feel something" during that meditation. Imagine your heart growing warm, and radiating warmth toward all sentient beings.
At other times, when you focus on the breath, and then suddenly you notice your mind wandering, you just bring it back to the breath. Visualize the breath (it may help to choose a color for it) entering your nostrils, passing through your mouth and throat, down towards the diaphragm. Push your diaphragm down, as if pushing the breath into your stomach. Hold for 2 seconds, then let the breath slowly rise, visualizing it passing back up through your mouth and out into the atmosphere, perhaps forming a cloud. If your mind wanders, bring it back to the breath. Don't scold yourself for losing focus, just bring it back to the breath, and continue breathing and visualizing your breath.
Now, what you may notice is that over the months that you practice this, the periods of focussing on the breath last longer before thoughts interfere. So whereas 2 years ago, it may have been difficult to focus on the breath at all, perhaps now you can maintain uninterrupted focus for a solid minute, or two minutes, before a thought interrupts. In another few months, you may be able to sustain a full 5 minutes of focus on the breath before a thought interrupts. This is progress! When you get to 10 minutes of calm, steady focus on the breath, you get a badge from New Buddhist! :thumbsup:
Just kidding about the badge, but we'll all give you a big congratulations. Then from there, you can choose an object to meditate on (a calm place in nature. Or a painting of the Buddha, for example). Notice all the detail of the painting. Visualize as much detail as possible. You'll get better at seeing all the complexity of the painting in your mind's eye.
Or if you choose a spot in nature, look all around and notice all the natural features: flowers, stream, sky, clouds, trees, wind blowing through the trees, etc. Hear the babbling of the water through the stream. Smell the fresh air full of fragrance. Feel the breeze on your cheek, and the warmth of the sun on your skin. Involve all the senses in your visualization.
In this way, you can progress first to longer times for your concentration, then when you become adept at that, you introduce increasing complexity into your visualizations, and become adept at maintaining concentration and seeing and experiencing all the details of your chosen object of meditation.
That's how you progress.
And if your posture becomes uncomfortable or painful, and interrupts your meditation, my solution is to lie down on the floor. I figure that if the goal is to still the mind, then anything that helps me achieve that is ok. Lying down, all your chakras are still perfectly lined up, so it's ok. Lying on a hard surface will probably prevent you from falling asleep. I actually lie down on the bed, and I'm able to stay focussed on my meditation so that I don't fall asleep, but others may not find that so easy. But the point is that if sitting on the floor interferes too much with your concentration, try sitting in a chair (great for avoiding that knee pain), or lie down. Any of those options is ok. It's not cheating if you have to give up the lotus position.
@Dhammachick I think the quote most commonly put out there as a Buddha quote, isn't quite right and it causes a lot of confusion, as do a lot of them! They kind of say the same things, but not quite. It's not quite (I don't think anyhow) that if you simply don't like it or find it difficult you should give it up. No one said it'd be easy! It means that if you honestly and truly and deeply investigate any particular thing, and in being completely open and honest find that that thing, whatever it is, is harmful in any way, then don't use it/hold it. There are a lot of things that we might feel aren't ideal or aren't working for us, including meditation, but that doesn't make them harmful or invalid or bad. It's not quite the same as saying "if you tried it and didn't like it, read it and didn't like what it said, then you don't bother with it."
But it's easy to see how that is implied in the part about what you accept. That if it's not bringing you benefit, it's ok to drop it. It doesn't seem to me that that is what is really meant though, and that's one of the reasons it's ideal to have a teacher who has spent years studying and learning the true meanings of these things rather than trying to determine what they mean from our limited understanding especially because in the west we have such a problem with letting go of our preconceived beliefs and understandings and more than anything we don't ever want to be proven wrong. So we unintentionally twist things to mean what we hope they mean. I do it all the time, and get smacked down by my teacher repeatedly for it, LOL. (always very kindly, I should say)
"It is proper for you, Kalamas, to doubt, to be uncertain;uncertainty has arisen in you about what is doubtful. Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them.
"Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.
...i do not feel anything while doing metta meditation. it is just that i say those lines in my mind, as a routine activity and then after those lines are finished, i close my eyes and try to start observing my breath.
so the question to you all is - when you do metta meditation, do you all feel something inside you while you say the lines of metta meditation, or after those lines are finished, then do you all feel anything inside you? please suggest. thanks in advance.
Yes, the positive feeling is the goal of metta practice.
i think may be i am too selfish or self-centered person, that is why i do not feel anything in metta meditation - or may be i am too insensitive to note any sensations in my body while i do metta meditation.
You just lack practice. Think about times when you were kind to someone or someone was kind to you. Spread that feeling around. When doing breath meditation, think about the best kind of breathing, best kind of thinking, best kind of feeling you could generate right now, and do that, as a kindness to yourself.
Thinking about cute animals is a good place to start, too.
Have you ever looked through Chogyam Trungpa's obstacles and antidotes to meditation? I'm not a Shambala Buddhist but I've found them helpful in identifying the problem and what might work to overcome it. Here are a couple articles that might help
but somehow it seems either i am very confused person, who is not able to analyze if i am making any progress - or i am doing something wrong, due to which my meditation is going no where, so i raised this thread. this is my spiritual journey over the last 2 years till now.
Sometimes a spiritual journey can take a life-time of exploration before you reach your goal. But first you have to have an objective. Mine is simply to be happy and stop the suffering I see everywhere. Choose your objective wisely, as if you don't the spiritual journey gets very confusing and obstructive at times. Oh and be mindful of your objective. It's easy to forget if you are not particularly unhappy.
One last thing: be mindful and aware of your objective.
The objective is not reliable. But the part that is longing for the object is always there unlike the object. I mean it is always there when you are a being. Maybe if you die the seat of the longing disappears. But in this life objects come and go. But the part of us that wants to have happiness and the causes of happiness is always there. We always want: to know, to have it all, to feel, to do, and to be. Always. Those are the five Buddha energies.
but somehow it seems either i am very confused person, who is not able to analyze if i am making any progress - or i am doing something wrong, due to which my meditation is going no where, so i raised this thread. this is my spiritual journey over the last 2 years till now.
Sometimes a spiritual journey can take a life-time of exploration before you reach your goal. But first you have to have an objective. Mine is simply to be happy and stop the suffering I see everywhere. Choose your objective wisely, as if you don't the spiritual journey gets very confusing and obstructive at times. Oh and be mindful of your objective. It's easy to forget if you are not particularly unhappy.
One last thing: be mindful and aware of your objective.
The objective is not reliable.
but if the objective or ultimate goal is to experience the ultimate reality, or awakening, or true self or sattori or buddhanature or whatever word you put for it - is still the objective not reliable? i think here the factor of faith comes into picture - because when faith will lack, the goal will not be certain and the effort put to achieve the goal can be not whole-heartedly.
But the part that is longing for the object is always there unlike the object. I mean it is always there when you are a being. Maybe if you die the seat of the longing disappears. But in this life objects come and go.
well, my thinking says: objective should be there. when the ultimate goal is missing towards which we are striving, how will the factors of focus, determination and persistence to strive to achieve the goal will come?
But the part of us that wants to have happiness and the causes of happiness is always there. We always want: to know, to have it all, to feel, to do, and to be. Always. Those are the five Buddha energies.
but the objective should be to reduce the wantings gradually, except for the wanting to achieve the goal or wanting to end all wanting. to want is to crave, which leads to suffering - but still there is skillful wanting and unskillful wanting. so skillful wanting should be tried to increase and unskillful wanting should be removed.
If some accurate fortune teller told me that its going to take me a billion lifetimes to become enlightened, I would still practice. Hopefully in one of those lifetimes I get to become more devoted so that the billion lifetimes will be reduced. As for now I meditate when I can. I'm happy for the things I have. Meditation gets better when we accept things the way the are without adding anything.
@misecmisc1 said:
but somehow it seems either i am very confused person, who is not able to analyze if i am making any progress - or i am doing something wrong, due to which my meditation is going no where, so i raised this thread. this is my spiritual journey over the last 2 years till now.
Sometimes a spiritual journey can take a life-time of exploration before you reach your goal. But first you have to have an objective. Mine is simply to be happy and stop the suffering I see everywhere. Choose your objective wisely, as if you don't the spiritual journey gets very confusing and obstructive at times. Oh and be mindful of your objective. It's easy to forget if you are not particularly unhappy.
One last thing: be mindful and aware of your objective.
The objective is not reliable.
but if the objective or ultimate goal is to experience the ultimate reality, or awakening, or true self or sattori or buddhanature or whatever word you put for it - is still the objective not reliable? i think here the factor of faith comes into picture - because when faith will lack, the goal will not be certain and the effort put to achieve the goal can be not whole-heartedly. But the part that is longing for the object is always there unlike the object. I mean it is always there when you are a being. Maybe if you die the seat of the longing disappears. But in this life objects come and go.
well, my thinking says: objective should be there. when the ultimate goal is missing towards which we are striving, how will the factors of focus, determination and persistence to strive to achieve the goal will come? But the part of us that wants to have happiness and the causes of happiness is always there. We always want: to know, to have it all, to feel, to do, and to be. Always. Those are the five Buddha energies.
but the objective should be to reduce the wantings gradually, except for the wanting to achieve the goal or wanting to end all wanting. to want is to crave, which leads to suffering - but still there is skillful wanting and unskillful wanting. so skillful wanting should be tried to increase and unskillful wanting should be removed.
OOPS,
I meant object not objective. The mind that wants all beings to be happy is reliable. But the objects we try to do that with such as an extra slice of pizza are sense pleasures that are not reliable. Instead we need equinimiy and find we already have what's needed in our mind rather than looking outside.
0
Barrasoto zenniewandering in a cloud in beautiful, bucolic Victoria BC, on the wacky left coast of CanadaVeteran
edited May 2014
@bookworm
Stare at a wall that's what I have been doing recently.
who told you that 'what you had been staring at was a 'wall'?
couldn't it be a 'pen'? or 'picture'? or 'something else'?
Ponder
Actually, I think @bookworm probably meant that literally. I'm guessing that like me he is a Soto Zen practitioner. In our practice we face the wall, but we don't focus on it.
Comments
When you do metta meditation, you visualize love radiating out from your heart to all beings. (Or follow whatever the text/lines you use say.) So at that point, you're not following the breath, your breathing should become automatic. You're focussing instead on the visualization you're doing. That might help you "feel something" during that meditation. Imagine your heart growing warm, and radiating warmth toward all sentient beings.
At other times, when you focus on the breath, and then suddenly you notice your mind wandering, you just bring it back to the breath. Visualize the breath (it may help to choose a color for it) entering your nostrils, passing through your mouth and throat, down towards the diaphragm. Push your diaphragm down, as if pushing the breath into your stomach. Hold for 2 seconds, then let the breath slowly rise, visualizing it passing back up through your mouth and out into the atmosphere, perhaps forming a cloud. If your mind wanders, bring it back to the breath. Don't scold yourself for losing focus, just bring it back to the breath, and continue breathing and visualizing your breath.
Now, what you may notice is that over the months that you practice this, the periods of focussing on the breath last longer before thoughts interfere. So whereas 2 years ago, it may have been difficult to focus on the breath at all, perhaps now you can maintain uninterrupted focus for a solid minute, or two minutes, before a thought interrupts. In another few months, you may be able to sustain a full 5 minutes of focus on the breath before a thought interrupts. This is progress! When you get to 10 minutes of calm, steady focus on the breath, you get a badge from New Buddhist! :thumbsup:
Just kidding about the badge, but we'll all give you a big congratulations.
Or if you choose a spot in nature, look all around and notice all the natural features: flowers, stream, sky, clouds, trees, wind blowing through the trees, etc. Hear the babbling of the water through the stream. Smell the fresh air full of fragrance. Feel the breeze on your cheek, and the warmth of the sun on your skin. Involve all the senses in your visualization.
In this way, you can progress first to longer times for your concentration, then when you become adept at that, you introduce increasing complexity into your visualizations, and become adept at maintaining concentration and seeing and experiencing all the details of your chosen object of meditation.
That's how you progress.
And if your posture becomes uncomfortable or painful, and interrupts your meditation, my solution is to lie down on the floor. I figure that if the goal is to still the mind, then anything that helps me achieve that is ok. Lying down, all your chakras are still perfectly lined up, so it's ok. Lying on a hard surface will probably prevent you from falling asleep. I actually lie down on the bed, and I'm able to stay focussed on my meditation so that I don't fall asleep, but others may not find that so easy. But the point is that if sitting on the floor interferes too much with your concentration, try sitting in a chair (great for avoiding that knee pain), or lie down. Any of those options is ok. It's not cheating if you have to give up the lotus position.
But it's easy to see how that is implied in the part about what you accept. That if it's not bringing you benefit, it's ok to drop it. It doesn't seem to me that that is what is really meant though, and that's one of the reasons it's ideal to have a teacher who has spent years studying and learning the true meanings of these things rather than trying to determine what they mean from our limited understanding especially because in the west we have such a problem with letting go of our preconceived beliefs and understandings and more than anything we don't ever want to be proven wrong. So we unintentionally twist things to mean what we hope they mean. I do it all the time, and get smacked down by my teacher repeatedly for it, LOL. (always very kindly, I should say)
"It is proper for you, Kalamas, to doubt, to be uncertain;uncertainty has arisen in you about what is doubtful. Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them.
"Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.
Thinking about cute animals is a good place to start, too.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/obstacles-and-antidotes-to-daily-meditation-3/
http://shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3264&Itemid=244
OOPS,
I meant object not objective. The mind that wants all beings to be happy is reliable. But the objects we try to do that with such as an extra slice of pizza are sense pleasures that are not reliable. Instead we need equinimiy and find we already have what's needed in our mind rather than looking outside.
Actually, I think @bookworm probably meant that literally. I'm guessing that like me he is a Soto Zen practitioner. In our practice we face the wall, but we don't focus on it.