Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Well, once again, my main meditation doesn't involve music.
I found this helpful especially when stuck in the doing mode of mind and striving, the music can create a bridge from unawareness to awareness without having to grit my teeth, struggle and wade through the storm to reach clarity underneath.
My goal isn't relaxation but seeing things for what they are and how the mind tries to escape and/or colour my experiences. The way the mind interpets music and the sensations and emotions which arise from that is actually a good way to see the mind at work for me.
By the way I don't really get how people do achieve relaxation with the GOAL being relaxation... it has always done nothing more then set up expectation and frustration and made me the exact opposit of relaxed. IME the more you get out of your own way the easier these positive feelings will arise out of themselves.
My main meditation practice however usually involves awareness of breathing and extend that to the mind and body and just observe without judgement, I take a lot of concepts and idea's of buddhism onboard and most of buddhism resonates with me a lot hence the reason for posting on this forum.
Buddhist meditation is the renunciation of our conditioned impulses, whereas straight meditation as a definition is just ones efforts to effect ones mentality. I think Citta is only saying that the deliberate focusing of one sense gate over the others is actually clinging, which while mind altering, has little to do with the Buddha"s most basic teachings. There are Buddhist meditation practices that do place a specific focus on one sense over others but only as transitional practice and only under the auspices of a student/ master relationship.
While listening to music, if you focus on the sound as your only object of attention, that is very much a Buddhist practice, imo. I sometimes find that listening to music in that way will lead to very much the same state as experienced during formal sitting.
Buddhist meditation is the renunciation of our conditioned impulses, whereas straight meditation as a definition is just ones efforts to effect ones mentality. I think Citta is only saying that the deliberate focusing of one sense gate over the others is actually clinging, which while mind altering, has little to do with the Buddha"s most basic teachings. There are Buddhist meditation practices that do place a specific focus on one sense over others but only as transitional practice and only under the auspices of a student/ master relationship.
Yup...exactly. But people will find what they need only at the right time for them.
@Woah93 IMO An identification with ones mind is the real issue here. Observing your mind "bridgeless to anywhere else" in formal meditation will result in seeing subtleties in its workings that the deliberate stimulation of music will otherwise obscure. Offering no bridge in meditation for the stuck mode of doing or striving, to move on from, will eventually leave nothing but the underlying adequacy of just being present to where you are.
I have found especially with a frantic mind finding the sweet spot which is the music in the center of awareness and starting fresh on each in breath is an extremely pleasant way of staying present. Each outbreath I try to let go of what I hear and then start fresh like I'm listening for the first time again. Found that electronic music especially is great for this, lyrics tend to distract and the repetitive soothing rhythm is very nice to follow.
So any of you do this as well? What's your choice of music for this?
Namaste all!
I meditate each morning (early - c. 5:00 am) for 30 minutes. I always listen to music with headphones on. I have several files I put together on my mp3 player (they're timed so I don't have to worry about it, or leaving for work on time, or missing my bus, etc).
I have a few files that are asian zen-like music and a few that are entitled "Ocean-Meditation" (30 minutes of the sound of ocean waves), "Rain-Meditation" (30 minutes of the sound of rain), "Thunder-Meditation" (30 minutes of thunderstorms), and "Cricket-Meditation" (30 minutes of the songs of crickets).
These are all I ever use. Anything else is just too distracting for me.
Nature is the same as quality. Nature of mind is is the mind's inherent quality. How I "feel" at any given moment is one thing, but mind's nature remains untouched, unchanged. Thus, feelings are irrelevant to my meditation.
Technical? In that context, I don't even know what the word means.
So you mean allowing thoughts and feelings to settle so as to experience what the mind is really like? Something like that? By "technical" I just meant containing jargon, or tradition-specific terms.
Why does a mind that has feelings and thoughts settled provide any more direct of an experience than one that is crowded? Even with the absence of external stimulation or senses the mind always fills in blanks eventually from the subconscious.
You know they created the most silent room in the world and people couldn't sit there longer then 40 minutes without starting to hallucinate and I think it's reasonable to assume that those hallucinations are at least influenced by experiences from outside on some level.
Isn't a direct experience of feelings and thoughts also a direct experience of the nature of mind? As it is in the nature of the mind to think and feel?
Our original mind/nature has no need of feelings and thoughts. They are secondary phenomena . They follow phassa ( contact ) in the sequence of Dependant Origination.
It wasn't addressed to me but yes I have had a direct experience of the nature of mind. It lasted about two hours. During which time what was formerly theoretical became quite obviously the case. It happened as a result of 'Pointing Out '* by a teacher. It was clear, direct and utterly unmistakable. It wasn't an end to anything. It was a new beginning. I had been a Dharma student for 25 years at that point. None of which striving led up to that moment. I could not have got there by my own efforts.
Then as Jack Kornfield says, 'after the ectasy came the laundry '. Bump.
* For anyone who does not know 'Pointing Out' is a process by which a teacher who dwells in a non dual state ( usually a Dzogchen or Mahamudra teacher ) brings about a temporary state of seeing the nature of reality, in a student.
It lasted about two hours. During which time what was formerly theoretical became quite obviously the case. It happened as a result of 'Pointing Out '* by a teacher. It was clear, direct and utterly unmistakable.
Years ago I did a 3 week retreat in Ireland with Sogyal Rinpoche and there was some of that going on. Amazing place: http://www.dzogchenbeara.org/
What I mean is a direct experience of the nature of mind.
And could you say how you've experienced that?
I hope you understand that you're asking if I've experienced enlightenment.
The answer to that is no, of course.
Oh come on we've all had a direct experience of our mind. Haven't we? Or is there so much self-deception going on we can't see the wood for the trees!
Or are we staring hard at one tree in particular and missing the magnificent forrest that surrounds us!
As you may be able to tell I'm recovering from man-flu, but the meds I've been taking may have had more of an impact on my cerebrum than I had expected.
Comments
I found this helpful especially when stuck in the doing mode of mind and striving, the music can create a bridge from unawareness to awareness without having to grit my teeth, struggle and wade through the storm to reach clarity underneath.
My goal isn't relaxation but seeing things for what they are and how the mind tries to escape and/or colour my experiences. The way the mind interpets music and the sensations and emotions which arise from that is actually a good way to see the mind at work for me.
By the way I don't really get how people do achieve relaxation with the GOAL being relaxation... it has always done nothing more then set up expectation and frustration and made me the exact opposit of relaxed. IME the more you get out of your own way the easier these positive feelings will arise out of themselves.
My main meditation practice however usually involves awareness of breathing and extend that to the mind and body and just observe without judgement, I take a lot of concepts and idea's of buddhism onboard and most of buddhism resonates with me a lot hence the reason for posting on this forum.
I think Citta is only saying that the deliberate focusing of one sense gate over the others is actually clinging, which while mind altering, has little to do with the Buddha"s most basic teachings.
There are Buddhist meditation practices that do place a specific focus on one sense over others but only as transitional practice and only under the auspices of a student/ master relationship.
IMO
An identification with ones mind is the real issue here.
Observing your mind "bridgeless to anywhere else" in formal meditation will result in seeing subtleties in its workings that the deliberate stimulation of music will otherwise obscure.
Offering no bridge in meditation for the stuck mode of doing or striving, to move on from, will eventually leave nothing but the underlying adequacy of just being present to where you are.
I always listen to music with headphones on.
I have several files I put together on my mp3 player (they're timed so I don't have to worry about it, or leaving for work on time, or missing my bus, etc).
I have a few files that are asian zen-like music and a few that are entitled "Ocean-Meditation" (30 minutes of the sound of ocean waves), "Rain-Meditation" (30 minutes of the sound of rain), "Thunder-Meditation" (30 minutes of thunderstorms), and "Cricket-Meditation" (30 minutes of the songs of crickets).
These are all I ever use. Anything else is just too distracting for me.
By "technical" I just meant containing jargon, or tradition-specific terms.
What I mean is a direct experience of the nature of mind.
You know they created the most silent room in the world and people couldn't sit there longer then 40 minutes without starting to hallucinate and I think it's reasonable to assume that those hallucinations are at least influenced by experiences from outside on some level.
Isn't a direct experience of feelings and thoughts also a direct experience of the nature of mind? As it is in the nature of the mind to think and feel?
They follow phassa ( contact ) in the sequence of Dependant Origination.
So its not further back. Its atemporal.
The answer to that is no, of course.
No, I didn't realise I was asking that! In Rigpa they talked about "glimpses of the View", I was thinking more along those lines.
It lasted about two hours. During which time what was formerly theoretical became quite obviously the case.
It happened as a result of 'Pointing Out '* by a teacher. It was clear, direct and utterly unmistakable.
It wasn't an end to anything. It was a new beginning.
I had been a Dharma student for 25 years at that point. None of which striving led up to that moment. I could not have got there by my own efforts.
Then as Jack Kornfield says, 'after the ectasy came the laundry '. Bump.
* For anyone who does not know 'Pointing Out' is a process by which a teacher who dwells in a non dual state ( usually a Dzogchen or Mahamudra teacher ) brings about a temporary state of seeing the nature of reality, in a student.
Amazing place: http://www.dzogchenbeara.org/
The answer to that is no, of course.
Oh come on we've all had a direct experience of our mind. Haven't we? Or is there so much self-deception going on we can't see the wood for the trees!
Or are we staring hard at one tree in particular and missing the magnificent forrest that surrounds us!
As you may be able to tell I'm recovering from man-flu, but the meds I've been taking may have had more of an impact on my cerebrum than I had expected.
Mettha