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Triratna Buddhism
bfg84
Explorer
Hi all, i was searching online to see if there were any Buddhist temples/centres near where i live, it turns out there isnt but i did find a fair few that are in different cities near where i work . after a bit of reading it turns out that most of these centres are part of Triratna Buddhism.
Has any one got any opinions on Triratna or experiance of any of their centres? x
Has any one got any opinions on Triratna or experiance of any of their centres? x
0
Comments
The founder had some crazy sexist delusions, not so unusual for a person of his generation and circumstances. Which is a comment I would apply to Shakyamuni.
The meetings I have attended, taught and practiced a simple breath counting and metta bhavna combination that was perfectetly sound. The people who are more committed and running businesses such as health food stores are all fine, pleasant practitioners. If that is what is available, great.
:wave:
I think though that they have learned some lessons from the past. They are good at teaching meditation to beginners and have a strong emphasis on sangha. It's a pan-Buddhist tradition, a sort of mix-and-match approach - there are pros and cons to that.
He considered women to be less evolved than men, and actively attacked the idea of heterosexual relationships. The FWBO has been accused of cult like behavior for advising hetrosexual men to engage in sexual relationships with the "teachers" in order to obtain spiritual growth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangharakshita
Thankfully his dharma kookiness is not required if attending a center.
. . . and now back to normality . . . whatever that is . . .
But reading about the founder, his beliefs and actions and the accusations by The Guardian, in this case I get the impression that the truth has been vastly exaggerated and sensationalized to play on homophobic prejudices and the ever-present fear of cults used to gin up readership. @SpinyNorman seems to have more direct knowledge, but it's funny that an organization supposed to be a cult of someone anti-woman and anti-heterosexual has women in high office today and doesn't at all revolve around their retired founder's every word like actual cults.
A lot of the criticism also seems to be that they're not part of the traditional Dharma Transmission line of sects. How dare someone start an organization devoted to teaching Buddhist practices without the Eastern Dharma Seal of Approval! These usually footnote a book by Stephen Batchelor, by the way. Stephen is a great philosopher and proponent of viewing the Buddha's teachings through the eyes of an agnostic, but people forget he's in many ways very conservative in his views on Buddhism as an institution.
So overall, I'd have to say this organization should be looked at for what they are and what they're trying to do today, instead of treating it like a cult that worships whatever crazy baggage the founder might have carried around.
if you are in uk, there are many other centres.
i would not go to triratna as the 1st place to visit.
But as I said, they do seemed to have learned some lessons and these days they make a useful contribution to the development of western Buddhism. And clearly they are very popular.
In my experience Triratna on the whole is ok. If you want to learn meditation its very accessible and there method is quite direct and simple to pick up. But there is a slight cultish tint to there sanctum. If you wanna stay within the peripheries, goto to Meditation classes, attend retreats etc then Triratna is good. There are some lovely people involved and it is very organized. But if you go a bit deeper and become a ''friend'' of the Western Buddhist Order then things change a little. They don't like you to shop around so to speak. Also there is a definite idolisation of sangharakshita (the Founder) who i have met and to be honest found the experience a little underwhelming. Also the order members are a bit of a ''members only club'' and i found them to be quite unwelcoming. In the end i left. It has its pro and cons but check it out for yourself :-)
Also there is a definite idolisation of sangharakshita (the Founder) who i have met and to be honest found the experience a little underwhelming.
Me too.
@Mr_MeSsD_uP and @SpinyNorman and others who are knowledgeable about Triratna:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by the "cultishness" when you get deeper into the organization? I would expect that most traditions would prefer that you are dedicated to the specific tradition if you become a devout layperson - does Triratna take it further?
Also, would someone who leans towards Theravada have any issues practicing with a Triratna group? I just ask because I'm a bit sangha-hungry, and there's a group that would be pretty convenient for me to join, but I'm wary because of the reputation. Other sanghas don't really float my boat (very Mahayana/Vajrayana, or too focused on "big-V Vipassana"), and the marketing on the local Triratna site _sounds _promising
All I know is that the Triratna Buddhists I know personally are among the most dedicated to Dharma that I have met.
A great strength of the organisation is that they do not turn away from western culture to become pretend Asians..a very common and disabling phenomenon among western Buddhists.
However I suspect that they might well not be a comfortable fit for someone ' who leans towards Theravada '..
Although the Triratna refers to the Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana, in practice they are much more orientated by the latter two schools.
In fact they are decidedly cool towards the doctrinal stance of the Theravada ..they teach samatha and to some extent vipassana, but so do many Tibetan groups.
You will find little support among them for a literalist interpretation of the Pali Canon.
Whether this is a good or bad thing is of course a matter for yourself.
I think it would be fine, given that their 2 main practices have their origins in Theravada. I've noticed a shift in emphasis over the last 30 years, eg the addition of walking meditation, dedicated retreats on the Anapanasati Sutta, etc.
I took their Mitra (Friends) course and although the structure of it ment a lot of group conversation, I had difficulty getting the teachers to engage in anything that wasn't endorsed by their own canon. To some extent I could understand that they would want to keep to their curriculum if I was going off topic, but in open debate it seemed to be frowned upon to question their POV. And I was branded a ''trouble maker''. Many times I was just ignored.
Though outside of the Mitra classes everything was good. I got on with most of my fellow Lay members, found a lot of the Order Members quite standoff-ish; but there were exceptions. One in particular I got on with really well. Who actually praised me in secret for my questioning!
I just found a bit to much censorship. People at a certain level were expected to ''walk the line'' and if they didn't were subtly encouraged to leave. Im not saying I was completely innocent. Im sure I was difficult sometimes. But it just came across a little cultish to me. But that is just my own experience and i bet there are Tens of Thousands of people who would disagree with me. :-)
The FWBO Triratna have taken aspects of theravaden. tibetan and zen buddhism - made them very intellectual and conceptual ( ie no longer buddhism) and then mixed them up with western psychoanalysis (conceptual again) and sometimes add some new age thinking (silly). I think many of the order members are well intentioned though - they have just never heard the pure teachings which is sad. They are not ready yet otherwise they would have searched for them and found them. You can't make people ready. They are where they are. In the Karma Kagyu unless you ask to be taught you won't be. My teacher does not teach me unless I ask him. You can't give people motivation only opportrunity which they often waste.
I don't accept that picture of the Triratna Sangha at all.
After a shaky start they have become a good vehicle of Dharma for modern people.
I know several of the senior teachers personally and they are among the most dedicated Dharma practitioners I know.
And I took Refuge with a Karma Kagyu teacher ...a rather long time ago.
They are an excellent means of propagating Dharma to those who have no need or desire to become pretend Asians.
If you are going to claim to know @KarmaSonamYeshe " what is no longer Buddhism" I predict an interesting time for you on this forum.
I accept that you don't accept my picture of the FWBO.
May you have happiness and its causes,
May you be free of suffering and its causes,
May you never be separated from bliss without suffering,
May you rest in equanimity, free of bias, attachment and anger.
And you.
_/_
So other groups _do _cater to people wanting to be pretend Asians? I don't get this comment.
i left the FWBO after i read the FWBO files just couldn't take sangarshitta as my guru
I thought you'd finished.
Thanks for your input, but no need to labour the point..... We get it...
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I decided long ago that the FWBO would be a bit too much for me as well... Sounds like an acronym for a serious fighting organisation; now who gets to hold that belt? - phew! No I went for the Eastern traditions because they had probably settled their differences already....
Hello!
I did a short meditation course at the FWBO in Bethnal Green, London, a couple of yrs back. In a nutshell I found the experience really good. There was a really nice bunch of people also doing the same course. I found the teacher to be very warm, open, friendly and sincere. He explained the 'basics' of meditation very well and talked everyone through the meditation really well. Beyond that, I have no opinion on what the FWBO are like as a more long term investment... the Bethnal Green centre is a little too far away from my flat (and I like to meditate on my own), but I would never say never about going back there again.
As a brief experience, it was good.
@bfg84 did you pay them a visit in the end?
I am pleased you had a good experience @Dandelion - I have heard of others who did not. But hearsay is just the same as Chinese whispers...
Yes... there is a lot of negative press about the FWBO for sure; is Google the friend or the enemy.. I don't know!
A few facts and an opinion.
Sangharakshita is almost 89 years old. He retired many years ago from teaching or any other role.
The FWBO has been called The Triratna ( Triple Jewelled ) Sangha for many years.
It has some of the best teachers of meditation to a certain level that I have come across.
One of its teachers Vessantara Is the author of Meeting The Buddhas
Which is the best introduction to the Mahayana/Tantric Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that I know.
Though some have argued that the name-change was mainly an attempt to dissociate from the bad press and controversy surrounding the old FWBO "brand".
http://www.fwbo-files.com/
But I agree they do teach meditation well to beginners.