Confused about cravings

followthepath

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/3504/some-thoughts-on-the-buddhist-concept-of-clinging

The link above leads to an article written by Jason about cravings. He asserts that the origination of suffering is the craving that makes for "further becoming", the craving for sensual pleasures, and the craving for "non-becoming". I know that's a fact according to Buddhism, but I don't really understand what craving for "further becoming" and craving for "non-becoming" are.

First of all, aren't they kind of the same thing? If you crave to be brought together with a certain type of experience (i.e. being thin) isn't that the same thing as wanting to brought apart from another type of experience (i.e. being fat)? Also, I've read that "non-becoming" actually means non-existence. Is that correct?

Furthermore, do you agree that being attached to things, people, and views means "to give them unrealistic attributes, to perceive them as being able to give us everlasting happiness and to see them as unchanging forms"?

I'm a new Buddhist so I'd appreciate any input.

BhikkhuJayasara

Further becoming is to be reborn again, non-becoming is to stop the cycle. You can crave for both in addition to everything related to contact through the senses.

Becoming simply means the act of the citta(moment of consciousness) to go from one nama-rupa(mind and body) to another because it wants to continue experiencing the contact through the senses.

When you awaken, there is no further becoming and this is your last birth.

Check out www.buddhanet.net and www.accesstoinsight.org for more info.

person

Furthermore, do you agree that being attached to things, people, and views means "to give them unrealistic attributes, to perceive them as being able to give us everlasting happiness and to see them as unchanging forms"?


IMO I'd say that this mental attitude towards attachments is a more subtle, unexamined unconscious feeling rather than some kind of conscious, philosophical stance.

pegembara

Bhava (becoming) means a sense of identity in a particular world of experience: your sense of what you are, focused on a particular desire, in your personal sense of the world as related to that desire. In other words, it is both a psychological and a cosmological concept.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.076.than.html

Bhava is this sense of being/existence as eg. a boss/employee, a father, a son, a spiritual seeker. Its opposite is to not want to become/exist (vibhava). Both are views that are rooted in ignorance premised that things do really exist the way we think they exist.

The Buddha taught the Middle Way.

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.015.than.html

karasti

Attachment is, in my experience, related more to outcome than actual attributes. We expect things to go a certain way, expect people to act or behave in certain ways towards us, expect to get a promotion, expect the day to go well without any hitches, and so on. When those expectations are in place, we are clinging to, or craving for, the outcome. It makes us attached to an ending and keeps us from operating in the present and then an unpleasant or unplanned for ending arrives, and we are left wondering what the heck just happened? We tend to believe if we expect something, we deserve it, and thus it should just be that way.

Jason

followthepath said:

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/3504/some-thoughts-on-the-buddhist-concept-of-clinging

The link above leads to an article written by Jason about cravings. He asserts that the origination of suffering is the craving that makes for "further becoming", the craving for sensual pleasures, and the craving for "non-becoming". I know that's a fact according to Buddhism, but I don't really understand what craving for "further becoming" and craving for "non-becoming" are.

First of all, aren't they kind of the same thing? If you crave to be brought together with a certain type of experience (i.e. being thin) isn't that the same thing as wanting to brought apart from another type of experience (i.e. being fat)? Also, I've read that "non-becoming" actually means non-existence. Is that correct?

Furthermore, do you agree that being attached to things, people, and views means "to give them unrealistic attributes, to perceive them as being able to give us everlasting happiness and to see them as unchanging forms"?

I'm a new Buddhist so I'd appreciate any input.

I'd say they're related, but not analogous. I think Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains the subject of becoming (bhava) well in Paradox of Becoming if you're not already familiar with it.

footiam

followthepath said:

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/3504/some-thoughts-on-the-buddhist-concept-of-clinging

The link above leads to an article written by Jason about cravings. He asserts that the origination of suffering is the craving that makes for "further becoming", the craving for sensual pleasures, and the craving for "non-becoming". I know that's a fact according to Buddhism, but I don't really understand what craving for "further becoming" and craving for "non-becoming" are.

First of all, aren't they kind of the same thing? If you crave to be brought together with a certain type of experience (i.e. being thin) isn't that the same thing as wanting to brought apart from another type of experience (i.e. being fat)? Also, I've read that "non-becoming" actually means non-existence. Is that correct?

Furthermore, do you agree that being attached to things, people, and views means "to give them unrealistic attributes, to perceive them as being able to give us everlasting happiness and to see them as unchanging forms"?

I'm a new Buddhist so I'd appreciate any input.

To crave for 'further becoming' and 'non-becoming' sounds like to crave for something that we want and to crave getting rid of something that we don't one respectively; both bring sufferings when the cravings are not fulfilled - that is when we can't get what we want and cannot get rid of what we don't want. They are probably different but bring about similar results - dissatisfaction.
You can be very realistic and be attached too.