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I never understood my father was depressed. Maybe he only half knew it. Never diagnosed, never treated. My sister has it. She has had treatment. Being around her when she is not having treatment is quite often horrible. She is not horrible. The illness is. Humour is one way out of the misery void. Convincing ourselves that life is worthless for others is not going to work. Humour as avoidance is not going to work. The original poster (OP) has faced their illness and is in a process of recovery AND dharma. @betaboy next?
the way I see it you can attain enlightenment through your overwhelming suffering. The desire to not exist anymore is as close as you can get. You musnt waste this opportunity .
I think all you need is some hope. If you had some hope than you can always chase something instead of sitting in anxiety constantly. I have some suggestions if your interested.
You guys have to understand that he cant just "Live and find joy". When you are depressed the depression is behind everything. Its hard to enjoy anything when you know youll always have to return to the depression.
@heyimacrab said:
You guys have to understand that he cant just "Live and find joy". When you are depressed the depression is behind everything. Its hard to enjoy anything when you know youll always have to return to the depression.
>
In saying that though, if you know the depression is behind everything, you're kind of obliged to get help. That's just something that came to me reading this thread.
I disagree. I believe that you dont need help. Because than you will always depend on help. Sure you can ask for guidance from people on the internet or seek it through teachings. But I wouldn't get medicine or go to psychiatrist, they will not help you. They will only make you dependent on them. People who are diagnosed as depressed usually live their whole lives in a box. My mother uses it as an excuse for everything and she would never even consider improving herself because depression has her believing that 'this is just how things are'.
I often feel depressed, sometimes I even desire to feel depressed. I need it, I need the suffering because without it I have no motivation to improve. Every other day it comes back and I welcome it by asking myself "What is it trying to teach me?". I am grateful for suffering because without it I would probably live like all these other mindless delusional drunk friends of mine. Im sure that most of them even confuse pleasure for happiness.
I suggest we make the most out of our suffering instead of drinking it all away. Everything that exists in this physical world exists to create suffering. This suffering should one day reveal to you that you never needed these things in the first place.
@heyimacrab I'm not sure I agree that everything exists to cause suffering. Things are generally neutral in that how we interact with them determines whether suffering occurs or not.
I do agree that you must use whatever skilful means that are at your disposal to rise above the pitfalls that are many and deadly for a young man.
Counselling and psychiatry have their place and can be effective. Some people really do need help. I saw a psychiatrist for several years when things were going all to hell in my family and I could no longer deny that my personality was a big part of the problem. I didn't need to be diagnosed to know that I was depressed and anxious.
I thought it was interesting that of the 50 or so patients that my doctor was seeing at any time, only 4 or 5 were men. I was often the only guy in the room during the group sessions. I don't think it was because guys don't need therapy.
The results of the treatment weren't apparent at first. On the form I filled out to start therapy, it stated that many months might pass before changes would occur. I am far from being totally adjusted now, but I am light years ahead of how I was before.
@dhammachick said:
Yes. I'm treating you the same way you treat others? Pretty shitty isn't it?
I don't recall making personal attacks against anyone. Could you show (where in my posts) I've used the kind of language you've used against me? Thanks.
But anyway..... since you're hurting, I am willing to forgive you and not pursue this any further. Metta to you, dear.
I have had a great experience with medicine. My psychiatrist and I have a partnership to combat symptoms of my illness and with side effects that are not worse than the disease. I am always excited to try new medicines in order to see (or not) whether they help me feel better. It's like trying clothes out. You have to find the right one that fits your body and your life. Of course it takes months to figure out if the side effects will get better.
I do agree that depression can teach you great fortitude and determination. I started meditating and studying to help with my symptoms.
1
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
@heyimacrab said:
You guys have to understand that he cant just "Live and find joy". When you are depressed the depression is behind everything. Its hard to enjoy anything when you know youll always have to return to the depression.
Whether he can or not is not the problem WE have with Betaboy's posts. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his obvious depression or how difficult it is for him to find meaningful contact with other people.
The problem is that he gives himself permission to express his hostility and then (with great futility) duck responsibility for his aggression by playing the 'poor innocent me' card. There's no explanation for this behavior other than Betaboy enjoys the result, which is attention. He appears to enjoy negative attention quite a bit, perhaps it validates some story he tells himself about his unique, misunderstood position in the Cosmos. Nevertheless it is destructive; to him, for indulging in it, and to certain vulnerable others who do not realize he is jerking their chain.
It seems to me that there are at least a couple of threads that had nothing to do with Betaboy, yet some how, they have become about him. Personally, I'm going to try to be a bit more careful in responding to him in other people's threads so everything can stop being about him.
My thoughts on the betaboy issue are this. And he can weigh in if he wants.
When I played World of Warcraft, I got a bit of a feel for how the interaction with other players in the chat window becomes more a part of the game and the entertainment and less interaction between people. To put it mildly, right speech is not expected and a thick skin is needed. Few people act in online games the way they would in the world. That's the way it looked to me and other gamers here could confirm or deny this.
I think this forum is pure entertainment for some. It's about winning and losing. Except that the only one who knows the result is the individual playing. That's where betaboy is in my view. He's a gamer.
I don't think people should take him seriously, because he doesn't. I kinda like him.
Hello everybody. Thank you so much for responding. I now understand that committing suicide in an attempt to evade the pain of life is incompatible with Buddhism. Buddhism offers a solution to pain: the Eightfold path.
Knowing that there is a solution to suffering isn't what is keeping me alive, however. I practice mindfulness, which I learned from an Acceptance & Commitment Therapy self-help book. When I distance myself from my pain and observe the thoughts and daydreams that I'm having, I find relief. But when I'm totally absorbed in my pain, I am suicidal. You'd think that knowing this would prevent me from feeling suicidal, but no. Even if I succeed in being mindful for 90% of the day, that 10% of the day when I allow myself to get caught up in my daydreams is unbearable. That's when I start making plans to kill myself.
Anyway, I think my only hope is to constantly practice mindfulness. Thanks again for responding.
Yes, it can be very difficult to be mindful and think/act skillfully when we're completely absorbed in, and overwhelmed by, our pain and suffering; and it can take a lot of time and effort to find ways of coping with, and overcoming, our dark nights and daydreams. The only advice I can give is don't give up trying, and don't be afraid to ask for help when you really need it.
@followthepath said:
I suffer from extreme anxiety and I've also been diagnosed with depression. During most of the day I have to consciously try to distance myself from the terrible daydreams I have. Most of these daydreams involve me or a loved one being mistreated, but some of them are about me accidentally or intentionally severely hurting someone. Anyway, during these daydreams I feel nothing but despair and I have to try hard not to make plans to commit suicide.
I recently bought an Acceptance & Commitment Therapy workbook, which is helping me distance myself from the emotional pain. Also, I recently became a Buddhist and I'm actively trying to follow the Eightfold path to eradicate my suffering. But I still have one question: Why live at all? All day long, my mind shows me the terrible things that could happen to me or my loved ones. Why not just kill myself now and spare myself the pain? Suffering is a part of life for everyone and according to Buddhism, you have to take measures to eradicate suffering. Why bother living if you have to actively try not to suffer?
I'm sorry for the depressing post. I hope you guys can help me.
Well it is a violation of the limits of knowledge to think that killing yourself would end your suffering. It is a huge gamble. Suffering isn't a "part of life" it is a part of "life with delusion", think about it, the Buddha lived in nirvana and was actively participating in the world for 45 years or so. Therefore nirvana and life can co-mingle, without suffering.
Comments
I never understood my father was depressed. Maybe he only half knew it. Never diagnosed, never treated. My sister has it. She has had treatment. Being around her when she is not having treatment is quite often horrible. She is not horrible. The illness is. Humour is one way out of the misery void. Convincing ourselves that life is worthless for others is not going to work. Humour as avoidance is not going to work. The original poster (OP) has faced their illness and is in a process of recovery AND dharma. @betaboy next?
the way I see it you can attain enlightenment through your overwhelming suffering. The desire to not exist anymore is as close as you can get. You musnt waste this opportunity .
I think all you need is some hope. If you had some hope than you can always chase something instead of sitting in anxiety constantly. I have some suggestions if your interested.
You guys have to understand that he cant just "Live and find joy". When you are depressed the depression is behind everything. Its hard to enjoy anything when you know youll always have to return to the depression.
>
In saying that though, if you know the depression is behind everything, you're kind of obliged to get help. That's just something that came to me reading this thread.
I disagree. I believe that you dont need help. Because than you will always depend on help. Sure you can ask for guidance from people on the internet or seek it through teachings. But I wouldn't get medicine or go to psychiatrist, they will not help you. They will only make you dependent on them. People who are diagnosed as depressed usually live their whole lives in a box. My mother uses it as an excuse for everything and she would never even consider improving herself because depression has her believing that 'this is just how things are'.
I often feel depressed, sometimes I even desire to feel depressed. I need it, I need the suffering because without it I have no motivation to improve. Every other day it comes back and I welcome it by asking myself "What is it trying to teach me?". I am grateful for suffering because without it I would probably live like all these other mindless delusional drunk friends of mine. Im sure that most of them even confuse pleasure for happiness.
I suggest we make the most out of our suffering instead of drinking it all away. Everything that exists in this physical world exists to create suffering. This suffering should one day reveal to you that you never needed these things in the first place.
@heyimacrab I'm not sure I agree that everything exists to cause suffering. Things are generally neutral in that how we interact with them determines whether suffering occurs or not.
I do agree that you must use whatever skilful means that are at your disposal to rise above the pitfalls that are many and deadly for a young man.
Counselling and psychiatry have their place and can be effective. Some people really do need help. I saw a psychiatrist for several years when things were going all to hell in my family and I could no longer deny that my personality was a big part of the problem. I didn't need to be diagnosed to know that I was depressed and anxious.
I thought it was interesting that of the 50 or so patients that my doctor was seeing at any time, only 4 or 5 were men. I was often the only guy in the room during the group sessions. I don't think it was because guys don't need therapy.
The results of the treatment weren't apparent at first. On the form I filled out to start therapy, it stated that many months might pass before changes would occur. I am far from being totally adjusted now, but I am light years ahead of how I was before.
I don't recall making personal attacks against anyone. Could you show (where in my posts) I've used the kind of language you've used against me? Thanks.
But anyway..... since you're hurting, I am willing to forgive you and not pursue this any further. Metta to you, dear.
I have had a great experience with medicine. My psychiatrist and I have a partnership to combat symptoms of my illness and with side effects that are not worse than the disease. I am always excited to try new medicines in order to see (or not) whether they help me feel better. It's like trying clothes out. You have to find the right one that fits your body and your life. Of course it takes months to figure out if the side effects will get better.
I do agree that depression can teach you great fortitude and determination. I started meditating and studying to help with my symptoms.
Whether he can or not is not the problem WE have with Betaboy's posts. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his obvious depression or how difficult it is for him to find meaningful contact with other people.
The problem is that he gives himself permission to express his hostility and then (with great futility) duck responsibility for his aggression by playing the 'poor innocent me' card. There's no explanation for this behavior other than Betaboy enjoys the result, which is attention. He appears to enjoy negative attention quite a bit, perhaps it validates some story he tells himself about his unique, misunderstood position in the Cosmos. Nevertheless it is destructive; to him, for indulging in it, and to certain vulnerable others who do not realize he is jerking their chain.
I think I prefer you being an arse to faux magnanimous.......
getoveryourself
@Heyiamacrab - I will have to respectfully disagree with you on getting help.
In metta,
Raven
@Jeffrey it's a no brainer
It seems to me that there are at least a couple of threads that had nothing to do with Betaboy, yet some how, they have become about him. Personally, I'm going to try to be a bit more careful in responding to him in other people's threads so everything can stop being about him.
My thoughts on the betaboy issue are this. And he can weigh in if he wants.
When I played World of Warcraft, I got a bit of a feel for how the interaction with other players in the chat window becomes more a part of the game and the entertainment and less interaction between people. To put it mildly, right speech is not expected and a thick skin is needed. Few people act in online games the way they would in the world. That's the way it looked to me and other gamers here could confirm or deny this.
I think this forum is pure entertainment for some. It's about winning and losing. Except that the only one who knows the result is the individual playing. That's where betaboy is in my view. He's a gamer.
I don't think people should take him seriously, because he doesn't. I kinda like him.
Me too, he is a 'deer oh dear, moi 'naughty', never!'
_Mr Cushion declares open season on trolls. _
Hello everybody. Thank you so much for responding. I now understand that committing suicide in an attempt to evade the pain of life is incompatible with Buddhism. Buddhism offers a solution to pain: the Eightfold path.
Knowing that there is a solution to suffering isn't what is keeping me alive, however. I practice mindfulness, which I learned from an Acceptance & Commitment Therapy self-help book. When I distance myself from my pain and observe the thoughts and daydreams that I'm having, I find relief. But when I'm totally absorbed in my pain, I am suicidal. You'd think that knowing this would prevent me from feeling suicidal, but no. Even if I succeed in being mindful for 90% of the day, that 10% of the day when I allow myself to get caught up in my daydreams is unbearable. That's when I start making plans to kill myself.
Anyway, I think my only hope is to constantly practice mindfulness. Thanks again for responding.
Yes, it can be very difficult to be mindful and think/act skillfully when we're completely absorbed in, and overwhelmed by, our pain and suffering; and it can take a lot of time and effort to find ways of coping with, and overcoming, our dark nights and daydreams. The only advice I can give is don't give up trying, and don't be afraid to ask for help when you really need it.
Well it is a violation of the limits of knowledge to think that killing yourself would end your suffering. It is a huge gamble. Suffering isn't a "part of life" it is a part of "life with delusion", think about it, the Buddha lived in nirvana and was actively participating in the world for 45 years or so. Therefore nirvana and life can co-mingle, without suffering.