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Is religion required for happiness?
LostSoul
Veteran
Just curious on everybody's thoughts on this.
Happiness, meaning long term, day to day hapiness. Even during the ups & downs, good & bad times of life. Through death, age, pain, suffering, all that. Is religion required, or merely something that could be helpful to some? Is there a way to find freedom of suffering, desire, greed, envy, hate, anger... without religion?
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Comments
Depends what you mean by religion. If you mean you have to join a religious group and blindly do what the head of the order says, I'd say NO.
If you mean religion as a collection of teachings shared by a large group of people that have been tried and tested and many practitioners of the teachings vouch for the validity of the teachings ending suffering and bringing happiness, in my experience, I would say that may be of might benefit to you.
If you mean religion is your personal spiritual belief that you can attain these things by working with yourself in an honest and open way, and are willing to question everything, and seek the right answers. Then my answer would be YES.
Hope that is helpful
I think spirituality is important, because it gives us a sense of connection with something bigger... Whether you call it Tao, God, Nature. Spirituality doesn't mean, necessarily, religion.
You could try self actualisation . . . or secular Buddhism . . . or become a dude . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Buddhism
http://dudeism.com/
I'm waiting for someone to recommend either prostrations or tantric sex!!
In all fairness, that's the only way religion can bring happiness (and I am not talking about prostrations).
Happiness isn't something you have to go "out there" to get. It is only found within you, and is only found when you find the way to be happy with what you have rather than thinking something else will bring you happiness (including religion). Everything you need to over come the obstacles, to clear the path, is within you. Sometimes, religion or belief sets or spirituality can help you clear the path. It is a tool to help you get there with a laid out construct, in a sense. Buddha and Jesus weren't magical people or gods, they just figured it out. Anyone else can, too.
Your life, your choice.
Thank you for your insight everybody.
I think that's what I need. More Spirituality. Buddhism definitely brings that out in me. I've felt it before as well. So I know it must be something that we connect with, no matter what religion.
Maybe I'm just stuck on the name. The words to describe it. The culture. Idk. I do know that I would love a teacher, maybe I should look for a retreat... Wonder if they have any weekend long ones or something?
One of the problems with "religion" is that, once having discovered it, there may be a heated desire to get what it seems to offer ... NOW, if not sooner! There's a lot of heavy breathing and soulful effort ... going to a center, memorizing lines or rituals, heading to retreats, basking in the words of some teacher, dreaming of the Himalayas ... getting good-er than good.
No sweat ... everyone has done that one way or another. It's par for the course.
The fact that none of it works should not be a deterrent to trying it. How could anyone know what worked if they didn't explore what doesn't work?
But what works better is a more measured approach. Take your time. Huffing and puffing are no substitute for patience and courage and doubt. Try a little meditation ... not a lot, just a little. Pay attention, take responsibility ... and see what happens as distinct from trying to make it happen.
Even during the ups & downs, good & bad times of life.
Through death, age, pain, suffering, all that.
Is religion required, or merely something that could be helpful to some?
Is there a way to find freedom of suffering, desire, greed, envy, hate, anger... without religion?
It's not guaranteed that happiness will last and nor any requirement that it shall endure.
Its very nature demands a counter-position to frame it - there is no st george without a dragon so to speak.
Age, pain and suffering in this life... beyond death, who knows.
Nothing is required. It happens none the less.
'Your life, your choice' sums it up very well for me.
Is religion, per se, necessary? No. But I think a "moral compass" is (and I use that term in a very broad sense).
@LostSoul
I think the happiness you are asking about does require a practice where even the search for happiness is transcended
&
it is not so much dependent on religion or spirituality as whatever allows selflessness to flourish.
If you've never done any meditation before, you should probably look at getting your training wheels before hitting the big hills.
And the answer to your question depends on where "they" are.
You bet your lingam vajra!
You knew the answer all the time . . .
Spirituality, even good cyber company will help. Meditation practice, where the real mellowing and heart softening occurs is your bestest bet as peeps have mentioned . . .
There is, you just have to be the type of person that encourages themselves to live a life that engenders happiness.
For example - When I buy something on Ebay (so much Buddhism stuff there btw!) if I have the option to give $1 to charity, I do. Before I became an Aspiring Buddhist I never did - "They've got their donors, they'll be fine. I need every last dime to get the things I want!"
(To barely defend myself - I don't have a lot of spending money most of the time - but it is ONLY $1. Its value to me is exactly $1 - to The March of Dimes, the value of $1 means being able to help more mothers and their children. Since becoming a Buddhist and trying to live life by Buddha's standards - quite frankly, its hard for me to value that extra dollar I'd save by not donating.)
Yes, suffice it to say, being such a prick didn't engender happiness in my life, even though I thought I was "adding to my happiness" by being "frugal" (yep, my term for it) with my money.
However, if someone is a good person they would feel the need to help others simply because they need help; they don't need any other reason.
Some very forward thinking Atheists could raise a child that way, or a person can take a moment and think about it, but most "moral imperatives" in many religions already have that mapped out (part of the appeal) so that is when most people (like myself) tend to discover "the secret to happiness."
But, in short, yes I do believe it is possible to discover happiness without religion, just not very likely.
Thanks guys for your answers.
I've been meditating & around spirituality since I was a young child. I do need a more consistant practice nowadays, I think I just kind of "fell out of touch" with it.
Tried it yesterday, and I'm off to try it right now again
A similar discussion on this topic was held on either CNN or MSNBC today regarding how people with relatives on the missing Malaysian airliner should deal with their stress.
There is no stopping this one . . .
If you do it tomorrow, you could also be a practitioner . . .
You may have a plan . . . :clap:
Compassion + Kindness = Happiness (Religion or not) :-)
religion is not required, there are many happy atheists in the world
You truly believe this?
I do. I've know some.
Absolutely- I'm one
and I know others
Thanks guys. That's interesting, I've personally found without religion or spirituality I'm "unhappy". I guess you could be Atheist & spiritual, but I was actually referring to being Atheist & not spiritual. "Religious" is probably the wrong word.
So, do you guys think you could be happy without any Spirituality? Just "science" and lots of money for therapists perhaps?
It depends what spirituality is. If you can appreciate the beauty of the world and be resourceful in adversity without spirituality then I think that is quite good.
I imagine it depends how you define spirituality and happiness. There are a lot of people who don't subscribe to any particular belief set, yet have their own beliefs on every topic that the spirituality umbrella covers, and are perfectly happy/content. That doesn't mean their life is full of just science and therapy. Actually, the ones I know are less likely to be needing therapy than many religious folk I know, lol.
No. I think one can live a relatively balanced and happy life without religion, just as religion can help one live a relatively balanced and happy life.
Screaming "Oh God" during sex is so 90's :P
Absolutely not
Every day you guys bring me closer to enlightenment
The orang utans in the zoos look rather happy. They don't have religions.
May I ask why?
This reminds me a bit of Woody Allen's film "Hannah and her Sisters." The character impersonated by Woody Allen desperately flits from one religion to the other in a desperate attempt to put his metaphysical angst to rest.
"If there is a God, then why there is so much evil in the world? Why were there Nazis?," says his alter ego to his Jewish father, who is having a nervous breakdown over his determination to become a Catholic.
"How the hell do I know why there were Nazis? I don't know how the can-opener works!!," yells his father.
In the end, the answer he needs dawns on him as he chuckles over a Max Brothers film: "I should stop ruining my life searching for answers I'm not ever going to get, and just enjoy it while it lasts!"
Since the dawn of time, man has handed the responsibility for his own happiness over to an external entity called God, which was conveniently placed far enough removed from us so that we would not get disappointed when we realized it did not exist. Sadly enough, like @karasti said above, we fail to see that the happiness we strive after is inside.
Did I answer in this thread already, who can remember what I do or say? :rolleyes: Anyway, all the above is spot on for me. The only thing I can add to it is that my beliefs and practices give me comfort when I need it.
Before i can fully answer the OP, i'd have to hear their definition of "happiness". But my first reaction would be, "No" because "Religion" is just a way to structure society and therefore its on par with Economies, political organizations, military orginizations or social clubs because of their narrow and exclusory efforts. Happiness, to me, can not be attained through such narrow efforts. Happiness is the letting go of these things, not the cheerleading of these things.
Because regardless of all the BS that people espouse, spirituality is intrinsic in our lives and repressing or ignoring it or denying it is denying a piece of yourself. If people spent less time telling people what spirituality is or isn't, they'd all be happier.
In French schools, you can either choose to take up Religion (Christian) or Ethics (a sort of Philosophy course). Could this mean that we might not always need religion to attain a satisfactory degree of happiness but to exercise our critical faculties and keep out sense of wonder sharpened instead?
@dharmamom - there are talks in Australia to do the same thing, with varying degrees of success. Still, at least they're talking about it.