The Eight-Fold Path - The Middle Way
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
I was hoping to find and join in a discussion thread on the eight-fold path on NB, but was surprised that the search elicited nothing (tapped hard on the hard drive but nothing appeared). So I thought I would start one 
...
So... The Eight-fold path (8FP) emerges from the fourth noble truth as the path prescribed by the buddha as the medicine that leads to the awakening, that brings one to be the end of (or be liberated from) what he called dukkha or dissatisfaction (suffering, stress, tension or whatever description appeals to your interpretation of the word).
Now everything has a beginning, a middle and an end in buddhism.
Realising the truth of the first three (there's dukkha, it has a cause, and it has an end), of the four noble truths, represents the first awakening to the fact that the reality we inhabit is one which is a conditioned existence arising dependent on causes and conditions, and is riddled with impermanence. Death, follows old age and various diseases and disabilities (if we are lucky), and from the moment we are born we are doomed. This dissatisfaction with reality tends to cause us to cling on to things that we think might make us happy and reject things that cause us to be unhappy. The action that comes out of desire/aversion for things conditions, and causes, further actions and so on and is the so called concept of karma. So the root of the dissatisfaction is really ignorance of what causes us to act in the way we do the first place.
The buddha said that we could end the suffering caused by our ignorance, and to do that we have to look inward to see what is the cause of our ignorance. The tools for this are freely available and cost nothing and include meditation and the 8FP. I say cost nothing, there are lots of peripherals that can be picked up for a price if you want to decorate the path in your own way. But with a little examination of the self we realise that we are acting on behalf of an identity which can be fully understood to be an illusion, a mental construct in our mind, which has no substantial reality (anatman), which can make things appear a little depressing in the beginning, but which one eventually comes to embrace.
Now the fruit of this path, or the end, is just awakening to that in you that is not dissatisfied or suffering. And this can happen for each and every one of us we are told.
So what is this path, the middle way. Well it is just a series of instructions that help one to eradicate greed, hatred and delusion, and give us insight into the true nature of the phenoma that arise in the mind. These instructions can be viewed as an escalator, once you are on it, it just moves onward and upward, and even though you are not moving relative to the escalator floor, you start to view yourself as always moving. Sometimes you can even view yourself as still yet moving simultaneously :om: . The 8FP is described as:
Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajñā, Pāli: paññā)
1. Right view
2. Right intention
Ethical conduct (Sanskrit: śīla, Pāli: sīla)
3. Right speech
4. Right action
5. Right livelihood
Concentration (Sanskrit and Pāli: samādhi)
6. Right effort
7. Right mindfulness
8. Right concentration
:om:
Others like to add other things, but they are beyond this discussion.
The path begins with Right View, and it is a really beautiful insight into how one progresses and is progressing, it both is part of and comes out of the four noble truths. First you understand that Right View begins with the reflection on the 4NTs and how the 8FP flows or unfolds from them, and that motivates one to develop Right Intention... And so you start to walk the path... And naturally you begin to see how you should act, given that everyone else wants to be free of dukkha too... And then one starts to Concentrate your mind on how to be present, through effort and mindfulness practice... And Wisdom arises naturally out of this. It is described in this picture as an ever-decreasing spiral that returns to itself, but passes beyond, only to return again, but on a higher level:
Many people I believe get stuck on the first 3 noble truths right at the beginning and fail to progress or follow through because they do not have the Right View that underpins the natural process that is present but thwarted by the ego, thats what happened to me for nearly 20 years. Once the Right View is introduced, and sometimes a teacher is required/necessary to transmit the view to progress, then one can go and investigate how to develop these other aspects. Usually it comes to in a random or disjointed way. Which I expect will apply to this thread, and welcome it. So the jigsaw puzzle comes together bit by bit. Ta da, we all wake up together, or are we already awake but don't know it, hmmm! Well that's my ideal anyway. lol
Comments
I think the hardest thing to get right is the ethical conduct aspect of the 8FP, Right Action and Right Livlihood, because depending on your cultural backdrop, you may have been brought up to live in a way that is contradictory to what someone from another culture will call Right.
So I posit that it is for you to determine what is right for you and live in a way that you feel is right. That may mean you do eat meat, or you don't eat meat - that discussion will go on forever btw. However, I think it is safe to assume that if you think and act in a way that does not intentionally cause or condition something in someone else's life to compound or bring about their personal dukkha, then you can probably pat yourself on the back and say, yes thats Right.
Metta
Interesting.
I see the N8FP a bit differently from many. A lot of people who talk about the Path a lot seem to see it as a linear progression from Right View to Right Concetration. I've never found anything in sutra to support this view, to my satisfaction, other than how the enumeration itself is presented. So, to me it isn't altogether clear that the path is linear, relative to it's presentation. I see it in a way that isn't linear in the same way many folks discuss it.
For instance, I don't have anything in my experience that supports that idea that Right View leads to Right Concentration. If anything, I see it in the opposite - that right concentration leads to right view. I tend to see the N8FP as beginning with Right Concentration, or more precisely, Samadhi.
So, The way I see it, Samdahi (Right Effort, Concentration and Mindfullness (in that order)), leads to Prajna (Right Intention and then View ) , which, in turn, leads to Sila ( Right Speech, Action and Livelihood (all at once)).
It all begins on the cushion.
I'm not saying the Right-View-To-Right-Concentraion model is necessarily wrong. What I am saying, is that presentation has never made sense to me, and what I offered, does.
@Chaz My understanding is that you take up all aspects of the path simultaneously, and they're mutually reinforcing. I've never heard it explained otherwise. Like you said, it would be silly if Right View needed to be perfected before anything else just because it's at the top of the list; we start with a rather shaky Right View, and it gets better with practice, especially if we don't ignore any of the other aspects of the path.
I get how folks see 8FP cycle like a wheel where the load we all carry is addressed by each succeeding spoke. It is a usefull way of pointing out how they are all interconnected.
What often is added to such a vision from the zafu's perspective however is that the 8FP as a whole is only ever as strong or functional as the weakest spoke. The significance of this is to understand that it's not the particular spokes of the 8FP that we are adept with that require our attention in a practice but rather the ones that are weakest.
I believe the 8FP is presented as progressing in different orders in different suttas. If that's the case, it suggests that the natural progression depends on the person. I think there are at least two orders, one starting with Right View and one with Right Concentration.
Thanks guys.
That makes sense, as does the wholistic, interdependent 'arising' if that is the right word. In other words attention and focus on dharma, leading to a natural unfolding of the lotus or spokes from a hub. @how makes a good point about self examination and areas of weakness and over indulgence. The premature 'abandonment' or deciding 'the structure' is a form of disempowering non liberation, is very seductive to the 'responsibility is form, form is irresponsible' brigade.
Same here. The N8FP is a part of Samsara, so it's subject to interdependence - one things gives rise to another. so right effort on the path give rise to right concentration, which gives rise to right mindullness, which gives rise to ......
or something like that.
No I see it like you do @Chaz, however, for me having the Right View was essential before I could develop any further, not saying everyone has to do it that way. My core belief is, like @AldrisTorvalds says, they develop and reinforce one another together. The knowledge that then arises conditions the view, but for me it made me more open to seeing the other 7 spokes.
The thing to bear in mind at all times is that the 8FP is just a tool subject to the rules of samsara, and tools are meant to be put down when the work is done, and you cross your legs to see what you have created or should I say destroyed. Hmmm
Metta
Ajahn Sumedho is ( as usual ) useful here @anataman.
" The Eightfold Path is in the end awareness...We talk about it having eight parts. The problem is we then think of it as a literal path with eight things that must be ticked off. We think to ourselves ' do I have Right Intention...is this Right Concentration ? etc. My advice is...don't make yourself a problem. Be aware in all situations. You don't have to make yourself something. Its already there naturally. "
And I think that view is right @Citta
Well as you know the 8fp is not emphasised in Dzogchen..but it feels right to me.
In fact you can see why he is attracted to Dzogchen.
His successor as Abbott of Amaravati, Ajahn Amaro while remaining a Theravadin monk , is a student of a Dzogchen teacher. As it goes.