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Compassion / Forgiveness for sick people
Bunks
Australia Veteran
In Australian society (I can only speak for where I live) there does seem to be a movement toward understanding that addiction is an illness and that people who undertake unskillful actions (stealing, lying etc.) while under the influence of addiction should be shown some compassion as opposed to being condemned completely.
If we take the three poisons of greed, anger and delusion as an illness, how much compassion do we give to people acting under the influence of them.
I would say as a society very little.
But as individuals how much? As "Buddhists" how much?
I guess that's the whole point of the practice.......forgive me I am having a bit of a strange day.
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Comments
I am an RN and have met many addicts.
They are my brothers and sisters as well and I treat them as such.
Perhaps we could class greed, anger and delusion as addictions too????
Im an alcoholic/ addict. I want to be treated like everyone else. That said I tend to think people are sick not bad (whether addict or not) if they suffer from mental affliction enough to commit "wrong" actions.
Hello fellow Australian!
The more I learn about Buddhism the more I feel compassion. Because I understand the dilemma we are all in.
I have more patience with people who suffer thought addiction! Like myself!
I don't think most people see the 3 poisons as an excuse or even contemplate it. Thought provoking topic! Nice one
Namaste Bunks,
This is a very thought provoking post and very apt. I think you raise a really good point. I am reading this at a time when I'm cutting people out of my life who operate on those three principles. But perhaps I am being too hasty and not "walking the talk" myself.
In metta
I struggle with these types of decisions as well. I start thinking "well so and so is just so greedy, and I can't handle that at this point in my life." then I start wondering if I'm being greedy with my time by wanting to cut people out of my life in order to make more time for the things I enjoy and less time dealing with people I do not. I might consider someone greedy because I think I know better how they should spend what I perceive to be a large amount of money. But I don't take the time to consider how aggravated I get when a kid calls in the middle of my meditation because they forgot something they needed. Some are greedy with their money. I tend to be greedy with my time. Sometimes, it's not so easy to figure out! But we need to remember in all our trying to figure out how to apply our Buddhism to complex areas of relationships and life, to be kind and compassionate and patient with ourselves, too.
I think that as Buddhists (or just those interested) we sometimes think that we are better at avoiding the 3 poisons because we label them and maybe can point them out easier or sooner than others can. But as with everything else, the terms are meant only to apply to ourselves, and not to use to judge others. We should be looking at our greed, our anger, our delusion and simultaneously realize that we are lucky to have a path that teaches us to do so. Because every single person suffers from those 3 things and many of them don't even know it. That is where the compassion comes in. That is how you develop compassion for everyone, even the most difficult people.
Edit: I posted a while back that I struggle especially with my grandma. I think "why does she do this all the time!?" and I try to turn it around and see what behaviors I do often that I can improve on. Instead of stewing over why she calls me every single she cannot remember how to use her cell phone, I look at something I am easily frustrated by. Doing so makes me thankful to have a path to turn to, to recognize that I can see what I am doing. She cannot. I can learn to do things differently thanks to the Dharma.
I agree that people with chemical and drug dependency should be treated with compassion, and given an opportunity to enter detox programs when they are ready.
I do not agree that greed, anger and delusion are addictions. A characteristic of addiction is that the element of control is lost. Alcohol and drugs have a chemical impact on the brain and nervous system that makes them extremely difficult to shake. Greed, anger and delusion are conditions that influence us all. With practise (on the cushion) and reflection and insight into our tendencies, behaviors, and actions, we can choose to change.
It's a very difficult topic.
Yes, people who are in an addiction phase of their life have a mental/emotional illness. But they also got there by choices that they made (I assume we believe that even addicts made choices at some point early in their addiction). My sister was a mild addict and an alcoholic. I don't know so much about the choices she made later in life, but I think we all saw it coming (or at least major problems coming) when she was young. Her teeth rotted out of her head by the time she was 50, and in her early 50s she died from long-term drug use and alcoholism. My mother always tried to help her and while I was not close to her, I would always see her when I visited Florida.
Many of us have some "addictions", if not the type we're talking about, it may still be an addiction to overeating, etc. So we must all try to understand, and give compassion, but we also have to be realistic about things such as risk to others, financial failure, etc. But, as we found out re my sister, you can't help someone who doesn't want to helped.
Thank you @Barra however I am not sure I agree with your assessment.
Greed, anger and delusions are emotions / things we have been feeding since we were born (or since beginningless time if that's your belief).
Alcoholics can choose to change too can't they? Can't they just go to AA?
You don't think an element of control is lost when you're angry? Or when you feel lust? I would say it is.
I think it has to be all or nothing. You either show compassion for everyone or no-one.
Or is that too black and white?
Greed anger and delusion are addictions insofar as we identify with them.
Very few things in life, including compassion, have to be all or nothing at all...unless you're Frank Sinatra.
I am too young to understand the Frank Sinatra reference vinlyn!!!
Today whilst walking, a man with more than a skinful (very drunk) swaggered and collapsed in front of me. His companions were waiting for him and used to this behaviour. Such drug abuse is common and legal and leads to differing forms of usage. For example on the last night of my retreat I had 6 sherries (a lot for me) got very drunk (by my standards) and videod myself to amuse the family. I have no problem with alcohol and so require no compassion over my skilful choice . . . Who said 'no intoxicants'? The Righteous 'Middle Way Uber Alles' addicted elite perhaps?
@Bunks I feel is maybe not aware of how alcoholics have a clinical condition. Just going to AA is not that simple. In a similar way 'just sitting' is not that easy . . .
. . . and now back to the sobering . . .
Thanks @lobster.
I think my comment re: alcoholics was misconstrued. I was trying to make a point re: Barra's post.
Carry on......
Sorry, probably did not pay sufficient attention. I believe that being an Ozzie is a curable medical condition. We just need to stay off the tinnies and simplistic stereotypes . . .
Hee hee!
Keep words to 2 syllables and less and we Aussies will be fine......
What's that Shane??? The bars open??? Have one for me mate!
One of his earliest hit recordings was "All Or Nothing At All", which he re-recorded many times.
As Buddhists, I would say it's in direct proportion to how much Metta the Buddhist has cultivated. Which of course varies between Buddhist persons.
I think you could say those are the root cause of any addiction.
"Once a pickle never a cucumber" The disease of alcoholism can be arrested ,not cured. The barrier of denial needs to be penetrated. Once it is an alcoholic has a choice.
As I mentioned before I am an alcoholic and want no "special " treatment nor do I think we should have special treatment. I do believe that _all _humans should be viewed with compassion. TNH says it well for me.
“When another person makes you suffer, it is because he suffers deeply within himself, and his suffering is spilling over. He does not need punishment; he needs help. That's the message he is sending.”
and JK-Z
Patience is an ever present alternative to the mind's endemic restlessness and impatience. Scratch the surface of impatience and what you will find lying beneath it, subtly or not so subtly, is anger. It's the strong energy of not wanting things to be the way they are and blaming someone (often yourself) or something for it. This doesn't mean you can't hurry when you have to. It is possible even to hurry patiently, mindfully, moving fast because you have chosen to.
From the perspective of patience, things happen because other things happen. Nothing is separate and isolated. There is no absolute, end-of-the-line, the-buck-stops-here root cause. **If someone hits you with a stick, you don't get angry at the stick or at the arm that swung it; you get angry at the person attached to the arm. But if you look a little deeper, you can't find a satisfactory root cause or place for your anger even in the person, who literally doesn't know what he is doing and is therefore out of his mind at that moment. Where should the blame lie, or the punishment? Maybe we should be angry at the person's parents for the abuse they may have showered on a defenseless child. Or maybe at the world for its lack of compassion. But what is the world? Are you not a part of that world? Do not you yourself have angry impulses and under some conditions find yourself in touch with violent, even murderous impulses?
**
I think that greed, and anger and delusion can probably be experienced to a point they could be considered an addiction. That doesn't mean that everyone is affected by them that way. Just like not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, not everyone who gets angry has an addiction to it. But I do think conditions present in someone's environment in conjunction with their personal make up can have addictions to emotions. People who experience abuse, neglect, severe shame, severe bullying, etc. Look at the kid who shot up the students in CA the other day. The letter he wrote spoke a lot about his extreme anger for how he was treated. Now, most of us can't understand being so angry that we think killing people is the only viable answer, and that dying ourselves in the end is the only way out. But some people do. And when they say they feel and experience things that strongly, yeah, I think it can be a form of addiction. They do not seem to have an ability to stop, breathe, and take account of what is going on in their minds. Their thought patterns are so pervasive that their thoughts control them to a point that not everyone else can understand. Just like drug/alcohol addicts, they are capable of learning other ways...if they can get to a point they can see there IS another way.
That "doorway" is wide, all inclusive (save for perhaps those constitutionally incapable of honesty) yet obscured by an inability to see the truth about things.
Sartre said that at a given moment, you have to stop blaming your parents for who you are and assume responsibility for your life.
I can imagine addictions such as alcoholism and drug-addiction are far more complex to deal with than the average petty besetting sin. But many people made it out of the tunnel. Our personal responsibility is to try.
So because somebody abused a defenseless child, must he as grown-up adult prolong his own misery by abusing himself and perpetuating the damage? That would be tantamount to saying that since we came defective out of the factory, let's throw up our arms powerless and simply let life pass us by. We missed the train already.
Asking for compassion or patience on the part of society is not enough to heal the wounds. It's taking responsibility for your own actions that counts. What can you do for yourself, to lead the life you want to lead? You can't control how people have treated you in the past nor how they react to you in the present.
But working on your own person, making the best with what has been done to you, is the logical starting point.
Nobody says it's easy. You see us people on the forum all the time wrestling with our own demons. It's an ongoing process. You might be wiser than ten years back, but that does not make you wise, as in a finished process sort of wise.
But choice empowers you and puts you in charge. Because you chose to give in to a bottle ten years ago, two months ago, last night, it does not mean you can't choose to break the pattern anytime.
The point is not looking around for someone to blame, rather the responsibility lies on me to choose to do something good about myself.
It's an assumption that someone who was abused, neglected, and so on, can simply make decisions the same way a person who was not treated that way, can. Even when one can, it doesn't mean everyone else is capable. Abuse and neglect of children (or adults) can change their brains, can change their ability to learn and their ability to process emotions. For some, it is not so simple as to quit blaming the parents and assume responsibility...because they literally are not capable. They have to be able to see there is another way, that they don't have to be stuck in that spot. Some of them are able and do so, and spend many, many years in therapy to get out of that place. But it's not as simple for others as simply telling them to do differently. Just like it's not so simple to tell an alcoholic just not to drink.
In any case, it's important for the rest of us to be compassionate towards everyone, exactly because we all suffer with issues of some sort. Even if we suffer similar battles, we don't know how each person deals with it. We can't apply our logic for running our lives to how everyone else should do things. As the saying goes, be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Yes that was part of what I was trying to convey -once you realize you have a choice there is nothing to blame and much to be thankful for. There is 'right" action to take.
The Zinn quote is out of context sort of . Bob
My HO is that instilling a sense of self-confidence and self-esteem in people helps them more than compassion.
edit: stay on point...lol!
I have to have compassion to want to help in the first place. Compassion tells me "they are suffering, perhaps I can help" -in whatever form that may seem wise. More deeply it tells me " they are not bad, they are sick" and so on. Its about my perspective... it helps me to recognize they may be "submerged" in there insanity. An (extreme perhaps) example.
" Forgive them for they know not what they do" Jesus Christ. He recognized his tormentors unconsciousness.
Sometimes, compassion is all we can offer, and it's certainly better than nothing. I've never been an addict, for example, and would probably be pretty poor at attempting to help one. My way of instilling confidence and self-reliance would likely not work for everyone, lol. To me, compassion can mean a lot of things, and it can come from afar via tonglen and other practices, but it can come in the form of words and actions as well.
I don't remember ever not being an 'addict'. It's a condition of the mind and body that pre-exists the substance or activity, I think. I wonder what the other self-identified addicts think of this.
Whether or not I am actively engaged with a substance or activity normally recognized as 'addictive', I myself operate from this paradigm. It manifests itself from every single facet of my life, including my approach to the Dharma.
The Dharma is (in my experience) perfectly resistant to my addictive 'approach'. Thank goodness, really. At the same time, being conditioned the way I am has resulted in slap down after slap down -- some quite gentle, others not. I'm still grateful -- in the very least, there is something far more powerful than my perverse 'method' of gaining freedom from suffering.
The only difference between me and the heroin addict dying of infected heart valves is I have a gift of insight that I've been able and willing to integrate into how I conduct my life. It has helped me not die from some substance I've come to rely upon. It's stopped me from believing that the only solution to my suffering is to alleviate it temporarily with a substance or activity. I know better, but that's not enough. I have also experienced 'better', which is not often the case for addicts. They honestly have NO other recourse -- to the best of their personal understanding.
The addict's dilemma is completely honest and understandable. We've experienced some semblance of Nirvana or Awakening. Sure, it is a highly crippled, inconsistent and personally perverted one, but it has the same effect. We experience it way too early and long before we've even come to understand the nature of being human and waking up. We have an enduring sensitivity to the misery of samsara, which also comes way too early and long before maturity can have a reasonable response.
This is just my personal unpacking. I would be mobbed in a 12 Step meeting, and rightly so if I were so arrogant as to insist on it there
What experiences of 'clearing' of the suffering I have had via working the Dharma are not all that different from the less-than-a-handful of drug/activity induced 'clearing' that showed me the end of suffering. Shamans have been ingesting plants or engaging in activities for a hundred thousand years in order to achieve the same damn thing. Are we just frustrated shamans? F*** no LOL! Though only an addict, heady with their undeserved awakenings, might think so
In @Jeffrey's thread, I wrote about some of this, but I don't think I said I have genuinely experienced the end of suffering, the complete end of it. As far as this pathetic creature that is me could experience it, that is. I have experienced the end of my suffering while my brain short circuits in the fumes of alcohol. Every single suffering has been clearly 'explained' and eliminated, set to rest . . . for about ten minutes at a time.
Of course this must be an effect of the brain on drugs, it is completely and utterly a drug induced fantasy.
No, it is not. It is real, but less useful than tits on a boar. In fact, it is deadly dangerous and those of you who don't have the 'addictive' whateveritis are the fortunate ones, to me anyway. What the addict must 'pay' for their moment or two of the end of suffering is the human life they are given, way too much.
Me either. Bob
I'm actually dealing with this issue on a very personal level at the moment. My father, who was on and off again drunk throughout my childhood, just started drinking again after 9 years of sobriety. I found out about a week ago and have been pretty upset about it all. I didn't see him much through my teen years because of this, so I have a lot of unresolved resentment issues towards him.
Actually, last night, I broke down and called him... waking him up and having, I think, the most honest conversation I have ever had with him. He promised me last night that he would stop... but we'll see. I know better than to put much stock into anything he says, but I really do want to believe that he really heard me last night.
We live on opposite sides of the country now and he's pretty old, so if he is drinking again, I'm sure the next time I will see him will be at his funeral.
I've just been thinking that if he is drinking again... I don't know if I even want to continue our relationship. My issues with him are more of the psychological sort, anger patterns that developed when I was younger than 6. I don't know if I have it in me to pick up these late night drunken rambling phone calls anymore. I don't know what compassion for him even looks like. In my teen years, I played the only card I had, which was to stop visiting him if he didn't stop drinking... and he laughed at me. So, I am well acquainted with the fact that there is nothing I can actually do to stop him.
He's an annoying asshole when he's drunk and I don't find any value in that. But if he continues to drink, then soon, he will always be drunk. He will lose his job, just like before. He will come calling for a place to crash, just like before. Even sober, he's a user and I've spent most of my adult life not letting him know my address for this reason. Is it compassionate to continue to take his calls? Plead on deaf ears? Or is it compassionate, maybe to myself, to just be done with it because of how much he upsets me and obviously doesn't care?
It's a fine line sometimes, isn't it? You have to be compassionate for yourself, first. And I don't think compassion has to mean giving a person whatever they want. Sometimes it is the opposite. Sometimes, you have to aim the compassion more at his karma. If he's treating you badly or engaging in bad behaviors as a result of his drinking, then perhaps it is more compassionate to disengage so that he doesn't keep creating bad karma for himself in those ways.
My ex was an alcoholic and a prescription drug addict/doctor shopper. Eventually for my sake and the kids, I had no choice but to permanently leave. It wasn't always easy. When he called from the hospital asking to see the kids, I had to say no. And that was hard. Even harder when he died 6 weeks later without having seen them in months. But he wasn't healthy and his effect on them wasn't, either. I don't regret making those decisions even though it was hard. Do what you truly think is right, and be ok with it.
How much is there?
That's how much we give.
he wasn't healthy and his effect on them wasn't, either. I don't regret making those decisions even though it was hard. Do what you truly think is right, and be ok with it.
Right- giving an addict/alcoholic what they "want" in the throws of there illness is enabling. The often harder to see compassionate act is not to concede to thier wants and even disengage (leave them) for both their and your sake!.
You might consider Al-Anon where families (and friends) of problem drinkers find understanding and support. Bob
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/local-meetings
Yes. "Enabling" is the concept I think about a lot. But talking about my father... I do truly believe because of his age (and all of the negative effects that years of drinking had on him), that cutting him out of my life would mean that he will probably be gone soon. If he doesn't quit now, I don't expect him to be able to quit in the future.
If he sticks to his promise to stop drinking, I have every intention of keeping our relationship open, despite some of our past issues. But if he doesn't... I have a difficult decision to make. At this moment, it feels like I can either choose to cut him out of my life now and save myself some immediate irritation/upset.. but probably feel guilty for the rest of my life. Or, I can continue to answer his calls, probably fight with him a lot, probably make us both miserable... but still keep the lines of communication open and maybe feel like at least I tried after he dies.
Neither seems appealing.
But! Trying to stay positive here... It's Memorial Day in the states and my sister is at a BBQ with him right now. She "can't tell if he's drunk or not" which I'm assuming means he isn't. Fingers crossed.
@MeisterBob I always forget about Al-Anon. I've never been, but I think this might be a good course of action for me in the future to work it all out. Thanks for the suggestion.
You could show unconditional love which is not buying him beer. Set the law down with him that your phone conversations will only be once a day for 10 minutes. Would that be too upsetting for you? Maybe so and I could understand that. But 10 minutes might make him in his world uplifted. If he will die a drunk he might be better off with connection to his family. So with 10 minutes perhaps it wouldn't be too upsetting. And after 10 just say 'we agreed on 10' 'I must go'. A psychologist does that to every patient. And when he dies you'll know you gave him unconditional love. I've been a little bit through my ex-girlfriend but I was only with her for 5 years.
You are most welcome! Al-Anon has helped millions of people affected by the damage active alcoholics cause. You will find lots of helpful advice , wisdom and caring from those with the same issues and most importantly some compassion for yourself. Bob
You might find you get to a point that you realize perhaps his choices will lead to his death sooner rather than later, and let go of any responsibility you have for it. Because you don't have any. I knew the same would happen with my ex, and it's why I stayed for so long. I shouldn't have. But it was what I had to do to be ok with leaving, and eventually I did. He was gone within a year of my leaving him, and he was only 35 years old. But when he died, I didn't feel guilty over it anymore because I had done everything I could do. If you aren't there yet, that's ok. But you will know when you are.
Good news.
I thought what @Hamsaka said was very informing. Why would anyone poison themselves with nicotine (which I have done) or drink themselves silly on a daily basis? It is clearly a case of ignoring common sense . . . which might not be so common. I am trying to find some personal comparison. Maybe it is my sweet tooth. Not comparable? Consider: at its worse I had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypokalemic_periodic_paralysis
An attack brought on by alcohol, maybe two beers or more usually eating too many cookies (a whole packet), resulted in virtual paralysis from the neck down. The so called muscle weakness was so strong that I would be paralysed for aprox. six hours. Sugar does not agree with me. I still have sweet things. Fortunately I have not been paralysed for years.
Maybe we are drawn to our sugar demons or other unskilful tendencies in some perverse mechanism? Being drawn to a beneficial dharma addiction may wean us off ignorance?
:wave: .
You mean sweet tooth like this??
The only thing I cannot resist is temptation ..
..
^^^ get behind me Satan
Yum. That looks like 'health slice'. Chocolate and nutritious nuts. :wave: .
@lobster As far as alcohol and drugs are concerned, I feel like people are drawn to them out of a dissatisfaction for reality. Dukkha, plain and simple. They can't stand life as is and need to augment it. Alcohol, at least, does give a feeling of well-being in small doses. It can make you more (sometimes stupidly) courageous as well. I'm not confused about why people drink... but it is very sad to me when it gets to a point that people must be drunk. My mother is also an alcoholic, although nowhere near as bad as my father, and I do worry about myself sometimes, and periodically stop drinking for (sometimes long) lengths of time to keep myself in check. It clearly runs in my family...
@karasti I hope you're right about someday letting go of the responsibility, but no, I am not there yet. I think if I just cut him out of my life completely, I lose the chance of gaining peace on the matter though.
@Jeffrey I think your idea about the time limit is very good. He's very hard to get off of the phone, but maybe if we set up something more consistent, it wouldn't be such a big deal. As it is now, we go long lengths of time without speaking, and so, when he calls and it's a bad time or I suspect he's drunk... he's sometimes very needy and keeps prolonging the conversation until I have to just be rude, which in turn, makes me feel bad as well.
Ways to burn 500 calories
http://www.fitnessblender.com/v/article-detail/50-Ways-to-Burn-500-Calories-Fifty-500-Calorie-Workouts/84/
1) Clean the house for 2 hours; turn on your favorite music and you can probably boost that number by 15% (if you dance while you vacuum, of course).
2) Garden for an hour and a half.
3) Hit the slopes; 65 minutes of just downhill skiing burns 500 calories; you only need 50 minutes of cross country skiing to burn the same.
4) One hour of Zumba burns roughly 500 calories, if you give it your full effort throughout the entire class (the Zumba 1,000 cals per hour thing is a myth).
5) Play 55 Minutes of racquetball. Grab a partner and you wont even realize that you’re working out.
I've done this (not neccessarily 10 min) with a (internet) friend who had anxiety and wanted to call me 2 or 3 times a day and was hard to put the phone down. And also I would have to set boundaries for a friend with OCD who couldn't decide what to do in his life decisions and we would go in circles forever. From my standpoint it was a great solution.
Even my Dad did this to me when I didn't have coping skills with my mental illness and I would go in circles. I got the idea from that and it was still very compassionate because you can't be on the phone with someone just to break their anxiety.
I'll have what she is having . . .
I agree. Pretty much as a non-alcoholic might suffer. That said there is an additional component -the disease. Basically once activated there is a_ phenomenon of craving _that exists. We can't drink like "normal" people. Once activated you can't stop. That is also why a "spiritual " approach -one that involves neural plasticity (in my opinion)works to keep one sane enough not to want to drink or drug one day at a time as long as we keep "spiritually" fit. Ive seen nothing short of it to suffice. AA does not claim to have a "lock " on recovery at all but one alcoholic helping another seems to work the best from all the years Ive witnessed in AA. HTH Bob
@MeisterBob that may be true, but only for you. I had a binge drinking problem quit for 3 years and then drank in moderation. I think AA people are often revisionists. If someone HAS a problem AA says they are an alcoholic and they need AA. If someone recovers from drinking and takes now in moderation they get revisionist and say 'you were never an alcoholic'.
Not all people who drink need AA.
Not all people are never cured. I was cured.
But you know what is right for you. The last thing I would promote would be to go and try to drink in moderation. It worked for me, but not for everyone.
Absolutely. Only you can diagnose yourself as alcoholic. No one else can. It does appear true for millions of us though and Ive seen many die from the disease over the years -including all three of my brothers. I take it seriously but don't call any one an alcoholic- that is for them to decide. AA saved my life but I am not its spokesperson. With that I aught be quiet. Bob
The part about addiction that I don't understand is how the negative consequences (like your hypoglycemic paralysis -- yikes) get diminished. Or, forgoten. The negative consequences are there but most often seem inconsequential (hang over, black out, stupid brave 'choices' one only makes when drunk). It's the cumulative negative consequences that are so obvious to an outsider looking in while the addict remains oblivious. We don't get too hung up over the hangover, yucky smell your body gets, the random black out. Your liver hurts -- just cut back until it stops hurting. It's just much, much more important to re-access that . . . place.
Trouble with that is the 'place' gets accessed maybe once or twice. The rest of the time falls far short. Then your physiology gets this tremendously annoying dependence upon the substance. Your body is only doing it's 'thing', adapting to large amounts of alcohol by diminishing it's own efforts to sooth the sympathetic nervous system. Why should it? The alcohol does it just fine AND the body is naturally 'green' and never wasteful. The 'place' alcohol took me once or twice is forgotten in the battle it has become to stay in my skin without alcohol, because my body stopped regulating the nervous system on it's own.
It is a decision, or choice, to pick up that drink even if you are dependent upon the alcohol (addicted). It's a choice between your body revolting, overwhelming your better sense (what of it is left) with klaxon alarms and mistaking its discomfort for impending doom -- or, having a drink. Or shooting up. If the person affected by addiction has no faith in anything greater than the power of their substance to look forward to, they will surely die of their addiction. This is the foundation of AA, which I'm quite familiar with, having grown up in the program thanks to the Irish Problem running rampant in the family genes.
To assume the decision to NOT drink or slam heroin is similar to just saying no to a second helping of spagetti is kind of an honest mistake unaddicted people make. It only follows that the nonaddict looks askance at the bizarre self destruction of the addict.
Like I said above, I am not really sure the decision was EVER as simple for 'me' to make because I am pretty sure I was born wanting it all. Maybe I achieved great moments in meditation in a previous life and in this one, am pursuing a celestial degree in Desire with an emphasis on Addiction
. Nothing I say is what I truly believe, but I do find the stories helpful.
I've known some extremely Awake-type people who were once addicts. It is like many other things a kind of 'education' that one can choose to take all the way.
@Zombiegirl, I'm very sorry about your father, and I'm just as sorry for him. It could be he does not have any remote conception of Life Past Samsara. Samsara is ugly when you can't layer it over with hope. There are lots of people running around out there with their whole existence poisoned by how clearly they perceive samsara. It poisons them because they don't have an alternative. The pain of hope is so awful that giving up hope (of an alternative) starts making sense.
Nothing you do will make his problem better or worse, not allowing him to call you drunkenly or cutting off all contact. It won't hasten his death or prolong it either way.
I guess you must do NOW what you believe you will not regret in the future. Jeffrey's idea is quite beautiful in its simplicity.
One thing I'd suggest too is a great deal of your own suffering over this is in your close attention (perhaps mild obsession?) with your father's drinking, to the point it's daily banter with your sister. This is something you literally have NO control over, you are completely 100% powerless to stop it or change it. Al Anon is great for coming to an understanding of that. There is a way for you to love him AND not suffer with him. I second the suggestion of Al Anon for you, it's all about finding that 'middle ground' where your love is alive and well no matter what your father end up doing.
@Hamsaka I think you have some really great points and I appreciate the time you took to write it all out. Especially the "It won't hasten his death or prolong it either way." This is a much more clear perspective. As far as his conception of anything spiritual... he is very anti-religion and sees himself as very far above all of what he would definitely call "religious bullshit." Conversations I have had with him where I try and share what I believe/practice usually end up with him listening for enough information to later turn it around and make fun of me for it.
I also just wanted to say that I have had issues with my father my entire life, so I've spent a lot more time ignoring the issues than mulling over them. The situations may change, but it's nothing new and I try not to allow myself to spend much time thinking about it... although every now and then, the issues do crop up. It's not daily banter with my sister (I sometimes go weeks without even talking to her, as with the rest of my family) and I hardly think it's obsession. Sunday night was the first night I actually allowed myself to really process any of this since my sister gave me actual confirmation. If it seems like I'm obsessing, it's probably just because of the timing of this post. Believe me, it's much easier to go back to ignoring everything concerning my father, but I think I may finally be at the point where this may need to change.
Unfortunately, I looked into Al-Anon and like everything else these days... the closest meeting is about 5 hours away. -_-