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To assume the decision to NOT drink or slam heroin is similar to just saying no to a second helping of spagetti is kind of an honest mistake unaddicted people make. It only follows that the nonaddict looks askance at the bizarre self destruction of the addict.
I have known alcoholics and even went to AA meetings as support for one. You are right it is the self destructive denial that makes this a mental illness. You are also right it is difficult to comprehend. It is like dying anorexics who do not have a problem they are still 'fat', when in fact they are skin and bone . . .
I have to have compassion to want to help in the first place. Compassion tells me "they are suffering, perhaps I can help" -in whatever form that may seem wise. More deeply it tells me " they are not bad, they are sick" and so on. Its about my perspective... it helps me to recognize they may be "submerged" in there insanity. An (extreme perhaps) example.
" Forgive them for they know not what they do" Jesus Christ. He recognized his tormentors unconsciousness.
Maybe my English failed me here, but just to make sure we're on the same page, I never made a point against compassion, but for personal responsibility, self-esteem, self-confidence.
Three things that will help someone locked in a negative pattern more than other people's mere compassion.
In the end, it's what you can do about yourself that can change anything, not other people's empathising or not with your situation.
Confidence and self empowering are important. My lama told me not to be divided. If you drink then enjoy it and don't have one side beating you up and the other side needing a drink to counter-act the beating. Just go full force and drink. Or not. Keep opening with compassion and gentleness. During those moments of clarity appreciate the motivation to quit, but of course clarity fades. Crucify yourself when you are craving should it be the case that you are going to try to stretch the physical addiction to attempt to quit. Works with food too. Eat or don't eat. No guilt and division.
I quit drinking 3 years and now 3 years moderately totally cured from the thing I was medicating. Also I have lost 50 pounds though alcohol was surely not the entire deal of the weightloss.
Gangaji has a good youtube about addiction which I used to supplement my Lamas advice.
Also stay away from party people though as I say I know drink in moderation.
3
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
@Zombiegirl: I hear you, especially about the 'obsession' bit, I wouldn't really know this about you and it's quite a stretch to assume it from a couple of sentences you wrote
The obsession bit IS one of those top five Family Feud issues of people who love addicts and alcoholics.
I lived in an area with one curly highway and two goat roads when I was still married to my exhusband, who had and has a severe drug/alcohol problem. The local AA meeting was also the Al Anon meeting, and the town's population was almost 300. Needless to say . . . I did however find a very active online Al Anon forum! It saved my butt and I mean that. Not sure of the address but search Miracles in Progress. Some of the same folks are on there from seven years ago, really solid people.
0
zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
edited May 2014
@Hamsaka Oh, I obsess plenty... just not exactly about my father. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I already went through that phase in my early teens until I couldn't take it anymore. I think that's why I struggle so much with him now, actually. He hurt me so much, that I just ended up closing my heart off my heart to him... it's just hard to undo all of that.
A book that helped me a lot with all of that was, "Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself." Really eye opening to a lot of my destructive behaviors in my relationships.
Also, just as a side note for anyone who read all of that blabber... my dad appears to have actually stuck to his word this time and no one has seen him drunk. I'm starting to think that perhaps everyone, including myself, just needed an eye opener.
@zombiegirl:
I have a sister I simply cannot be around, I am pretty sure she is addicted to meth and is most certainly an alcoholic. She won't help herself but she'll lay all her problems at my feet and expect me take care of a situation for her, esp. when it comes to money. Quite frankly she has ruined her life, remains in an abusive relationship much to the detriment of herself and her children. It is almost to the point where she can't reason, I think years of abuse have taken it's toll on her mind. I don't hate or despise her but I can't have this person in my life, it's too one sided. Sometimes we have to let go, even with family.
@Hamsaka: "There are lots of people running around out there with their whole existence poisoned by how clearly they perceive samsara"
That's a great statement.
0
zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
@Theswingisyellow My heart goes out to you on that one, friend. My cousin/best friend growing up, later became a heroin/other various drugs addict. Even when I've seen her during the times she was no longer using, it's like she's different... I have no doubt that these drugs severely damage your brain and honestly, it's painful for me to be around her, because I knew her before all of that. I love her and always will, but she takes advantage of her very sweet mother in the same way it sounds like your sister does... and I just can't forgive her for that. Alcoholism is bad, but I hate drugs more than anything.
@Theswingisyellow said:
zombiegirl:
I have a sister I simply cannot be around, I am pretty sure she is addicted to meth and is most certainly an alcoholic. She won't help herself but she'll lay all her problems at my feet and expect me take care of a situation for her, esp. when it comes to money. Quite frankly she has ruined her life, remains in an abusive relationship much to the detriment of herself and her children. It is almost to the point where she can't reason, I think years of abuse have taken it's toll on her mind. I don't hate or despise her but I can't have this person in my life, it's too one sided. Sometimes we have to let go, even with family.
This is similar to my situation. My only sibling (sister) got hooked on pills at 17 and has been messing up her life since then. Her children too. I haven't spoken to her in 20 years. When she goes missing, someone still calls me looking for her. The last time I saw her, she called me to pick up her then youngest child....and after a binge, she called the cops and said she wanted to press kidnapping charges against me. I knew then....I couldn't sacrifice myself for her. I feel a lot of understanding. She is deaf...our mother left us....a lot of conditions that would lead someone to want to 'escape'. That understanding and metta took some years of work, on my part. Now....
I'm not one who believes we have to be "stuck with" people who happen to be our relatives. There is some minimal standard behavior that any person must adhere to before I count them one of my confederates (for wont of a better word).
^^^ I agree. I had no control over who shared a uterus with me...or a childhood house for that matter.
I have friends and 'play' family that would give me the shirt off their back, always tell me the truth, and are a good influence on me. I can't ask for more qualifications than that.
Comments
I have known alcoholics and even went to AA meetings as support for one. You are right it is the self destructive denial that makes this a mental illness. You are also right it is difficult to comprehend. It is like dying anorexics who do not have a problem they are still 'fat', when in fact they are skin and bone . . .
I have to have compassion to want to help in the first place. Compassion tells me "they are suffering, perhaps I can help" -in whatever form that may seem wise. More deeply it tells me " they are not bad, they are sick" and so on. Its about my perspective... it helps me to recognize they may be "submerged" in there insanity. An (extreme perhaps) example.
" Forgive them for they know not what they do" Jesus Christ. He recognized his tormentors unconsciousness.
Maybe my English failed me here, but just to make sure we're on the same page, I never made a point against compassion, but for personal responsibility, self-esteem, self-confidence.
Three things that will help someone locked in a negative pattern more than other people's mere compassion.
In the end, it's what you can do about yourself that can change anything, not other people's empathising or not with your situation.
Confidence and self empowering are important. My lama told me not to be divided. If you drink then enjoy it and don't have one side beating you up and the other side needing a drink to counter-act the beating. Just go full force and drink. Or not. Keep opening with compassion and gentleness. During those moments of clarity appreciate the motivation to quit, but of course clarity fades. Crucify yourself when you are craving should it be the case that you are going to try to stretch the physical addiction to attempt to quit. Works with food too. Eat or don't eat. No guilt and division.
I quit drinking 3 years and now 3 years moderately totally cured from the thing I was medicating. Also I have lost 50 pounds though alcohol was surely not the entire deal of the weightloss.
Gangaji has a good youtube about addiction which I used to supplement my Lamas advice.
Also stay away from party people though as I say I know drink in moderation.
@Zombiegirl: I hear you, especially about the 'obsession' bit, I wouldn't really know this about you and it's quite a stretch to assume it from a couple of sentences you wrote
The obsession bit IS one of those top five Family Feud issues of people who love addicts and alcoholics.
I lived in an area with one curly highway and two goat roads when I was still married to my exhusband, who had and has a severe drug/alcohol problem. The local AA meeting was also the Al Anon meeting, and the town's population was almost 300. Needless to say . . . I did however find a very active online Al Anon forum! It saved my butt and I mean that. Not sure of the address but search Miracles in Progress. Some of the same folks are on there from seven years ago, really solid people.
@Hamsaka Oh, I obsess plenty... just not exactly about my father. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I already went through that phase in my early teens until I couldn't take it anymore. I think that's why I struggle so much with him now, actually. He hurt me so much, that I just ended up closing my heart off my heart to him... it's just hard to undo all of that.
A book that helped me a lot with all of that was, "Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself." Really eye opening to a lot of my destructive behaviors in my relationships.
Also, just as a side note for anyone who read all of that blabber... my dad appears to have actually stuck to his word this time and no one has seen him drunk. I'm starting to think that perhaps everyone, including myself, just needed an eye opener.
@zombiegirl:
I have a sister I simply cannot be around, I am pretty sure she is addicted to meth and is most certainly an alcoholic. She won't help herself but she'll lay all her problems at my feet and expect me take care of a situation for her, esp. when it comes to money. Quite frankly she has ruined her life, remains in an abusive relationship much to the detriment of herself and her children. It is almost to the point where she can't reason, I think years of abuse have taken it's toll on her mind. I don't hate or despise her but I can't have this person in my life, it's too one sided. Sometimes we have to let go, even with family.
@Hamsaka: "There are lots of people running around out there with their whole existence poisoned by how clearly they perceive samsara"
That's a great statement.
@Theswingisyellow My heart goes out to you on that one, friend. My cousin/best friend growing up, later became a heroin/other various drugs addict. Even when I've seen her during the times she was no longer using, it's like she's different... I have no doubt that these drugs severely damage your brain and honestly, it's painful for me to be around her, because I knew her before all of that. I love her and always will, but she takes advantage of her very sweet mother in the same way it sounds like your sister does... and I just can't forgive her for that. Alcoholism is bad, but I hate drugs more than anything.
...
This is similar to my situation. My only sibling (sister) got hooked on pills at 17 and has been messing up her life since then. Her children too. I haven't spoken to her in 20 years. When she goes missing, someone still calls me looking for her. The last time I saw her, she called me to pick up her then youngest child....and after a binge, she called the cops and said she wanted to press kidnapping charges against me. I knew then....I couldn't sacrifice myself for her. I feel a lot of understanding. She is deaf...our mother left us....a lot of conditions that would lead someone to want to 'escape'. That understanding and metta took some years of work, on my part. Now....
I also feel at peace. No hate or bad feelings.
Love is unconditional.....relationships are not.
I like that saying
I'm not one who believes we have to be "stuck with" people who happen to be our relatives. There is some minimal standard behavior that any person must adhere to before I count them one of my confederates (for wont of a better word).
^^^ I agree. I had no control over who shared a uterus with me...or a childhood house for that matter.
I have friends and 'play' family that would give me the shirt off their back, always tell me the truth, and are a good influence on me. I can't ask for more qualifications than that.