We need to talk about the Dalai lama...
caz
VeteranUnited Kingdom Veteran
I know its not a popular subject but this issue has really gotten out of hand in recent years in my personal opinion the Dalai lama is free to hold whatever view of whatever deity he likes, however what is not fine is when during his sermons he actively encourages the forced persecution campaign against Shugden practitioners, Entire communities are being split by this schism perpetrated by the Dalai lama.
Hold whatever view of you like however leave people in peace to practice, Can you imagine here in the west if shop owners, Hospitals, Government ministries etc decided you where no longer welcome because you where the wrong religion ?
This poor woman has had to go through alot and there are many like her suffering due to the Dalai lamas actions.
Comments
In this particular part of the West, there seems to be an awful lot of litigation by shop owners etc., regarding Christians who have decided many are no longer welcome because they have the wrong sexuality.
Seems similar to me, though I don't have audio on my computer so I wasn't able to listen to the video.
This has been explored here before @caz:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/388931#Comment_388931
@yagr click on the captions button then switch on subs.
As tragic as it all is, I chose to distance myself from this shugden mess many years ago.
This is a problem for the Gelug. I practice in the Kagyu lineage. Shugden is none of my buisness.
You might consider this: Gelugpas don't come here dissing Shugden practice or practitioners. I would think that for a Shugdenpa tocome in here and start in on HHDL, might be a bit insensitive.
And besides, Caz, what are we supposed to do, fire the guy?
Challenge his bad behavior.
It is unbecoming of a Buddhist to encourage persecution and ostracism towards others we have seen several threads here condemning unbecoming Buddhist behavior lead by various racist and nationalist elements in the guise of Theravada monks why tread on egg shells for the Dalai lama ?
For those who need to talk about the Dalai Lama bad boy . . .
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden_controversy
http://www.tricycle.com/two-sides-of-the-same-god
Mr Cushion will be sitting this one out . . .
I listen to all of HHDL's teachings he offers on his website. I don't ever hear him condemn anyone for practicing Shugden, what he says is why he feels it is a worldly spirit and asks that anyone practicing Shugden not attend his empowerments due to the samaya between student and teacher. He says they are free to practice in whatever way they believe. I suppose with the Dalai Lama's standing in the Tibetan community tribalism may take over for most people and they may decide to cause problems for or shun Shugden practitioners. HHDL has a right to believe and practice in the way that he believes as well and he feels that Shugden has a harmful influence then he should be able to ask the practitioners to stay away. He could speak up and say that people shouldn't harass or harm those who do practice Shugden though.
Right, as I understand (which is very little) the problem isn't that HHDL said to condemn people, but that it's widely know that it is happening because of the misguided notions of some of the HHDL's followers, and he knows it but has not spoken up to discourage them.
It is not something I know much about. It's not that I don't care, it's just something that doesn't enter my world at all and it's hard to think I can take any sort of meaningful action when I don't even understand the full scope of the issue. It does seem that as much as we think we understand an issue from reading articles on English websites and watching youtube clips, there is usually a lot more to it than we realize which makes it hard to step in. Kind of like when other people randomly tell me things like "PPfffft, stop saying no, your son can have some candy!" and then I tell them, no, he can't, because he is diabetic and cannot have candy right now. Then, they look like asses. Unless one has a firm grasp of the actual details of the issues, I'm not always sure it's best to stick our noses in. I'm not saying everyone should do nothing. Just that myself in particular, I don't know nearly enough about it to even think to write a letter telling the HHDL that I think he should listen to what I have to say about my very minimal understanding of what is happening half the world away in a culture and land I know nothing about.
KIa Ora,
Just a friendly reminder folks of where we are at "Samsara" ...Need I say more.....
Metta Shoshin
We might need to put more cards on the table before having anyone take a stand:
http://buddhismnewkadampa.wordpress.com/
http://info-buddhism.com/geshe_kelsang_gyatso.html
http://viewonbuddhism.org/controversy-controversial-teacher-group-center-questionable.html
Personally, I won't be taking part in this discussion because: I don't know much about this controversy, I like HH the Dalai Lama (warts and all) and my teacher, who is Gelug, also likes the Dalai Lama.
Just my opinion, which as I have stated, is not very much informed on NKT.
http://www.ganden.ch/en/lodro-rinpoche-2/
We would be very happy if he did this it would go along way towards solving this problem he has created, He is free to believe as he wishes. However a line is crossed when there are forced signature campaigns in monastery's and shugden practitioners within the Tibetan community are subject to all manners of nastiness.
This isnt actually the issue @dharmamom the issue at hand is the Dalai lama and his governments treatment of people who do not follow his religious view.