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After the Ecstasy, the Laundry: How the Heart Grows Wise on the Spiritual Path; by Jack Kornfield
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
I am not sure how many people on this site have read this book, but it is, in my opinion, a very good read.
http://www.amazon.com/After-Ecstasy-Laundry-Heart-Spiritual/dp/0553378295
The point I would like to discuss here in this thread is simply this: what does doing the laundry mean to you, and how do you do it, but most importantly, how do you feel about having to do it?
For me it is very simple. I believe I should just get on and do what I was already doing, but in a more mindful way.... Perhaps I need to see it otherwise, and maybe you can help me see it it otherwise.
Mettha
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Comments
'Twas a good read, back in the day. "The laundry" is just living. It's securing food and water, protection from the weather, taking care of your kids and a host of other stuff (all depending on whether you're a monk/nun or layperson of course). Enlightenment doesn't remove biological necessities, or social interactions and duties. That's the laundry. It's usually a chore before, and just what needs done after (without internal complaints).
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I believe I should just get on and do what I was already doing, but in a more mindful way.... Perhaps I need to see it otherwise, and maybe you can help me see it it otherwise.
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No, I think that's the right viewpoint.
I'm just surprised (if this is in fact the case, and it has only recently dawned on you) that you might ever have viewed it any other way.
This is the way I have ALWAYS appreciated Buddhist practice to be.
Just simplify and get on with it.
Partly but also the grounding in our life, feeds back into any opening or mindfulness. This is why I warned you about your contrived mode of communication. I understand why you explored this but it is not you or real. You are not crazy and the ability to skilfully use breaks in conventional speech is partly dependent on experience in washing out the unnecessary . . .
In one sense we have to keep the passion and intensity but express it in our every day normality.
Well that is my plan :wave: .
@lobster, if we're talking about 'contrived modes of communication' I'd have to say there's a certain amount of 'pot calling the kettle black' here.
I have on occasions received .... comments.... on your mode of expression.
Let's all try to keep the way we express ourselves on this board within the boundaries of acceptability. not go off on haywire tangents, and seem to have found the loony pill in our bowl of cheerios....ok?
'Nuff said.
NNR. (Needs No Response.
. )
Yup. pretty much. Even within schools like the Vajrayana which can appear as highly esoteric in their doctrinal underpinning it comes down in practice to how you treat your folks, and how mindfully you clean the toilet...
The teacher Padmakara said.." although my vision is as wide as the sky, my actions are as fine as flour ".
Thats the aspiration.
I think it is interesting that he says to do the laundry. That isn't totally clear for me. I'd have to read the book and try to sort out how it fits in with Kornfields teaching on finding a path with heart. I think it might be saying that excitement isn't the same thing as heart so you could have heart even while doing the laundry.
Really?
If you are speaking as a moderator then you can decide what is not so black and white.
My contrived communication, what you once described as flashes of occasional brilliance, what seems like ranting, what @Chaz said made him sick, what @citta was so effected by he tried to instigate a mutual pact of non comment on each other's post and what hopefully goes beyond the apparent form, etc etc is reflective. Partly of my unskillfulness no doubt. No doubt.
What nobody mentions is how the dirty laundry is actually cleaned. Some prefer to wash their mouth out with soap. Good gracious, do they chew on their or others linen . . . Some prefer to do other people's dirty laundry for them and some of course are prepared to do whatever it takes . . .
The last word is as always in the final wash . . .
. . . as for the book. Not read it, too busy getting the washing machine spin drying . . .
@lobster You sound like you have some loose bricks, but not in a bad way. It's not like... I dunno... conspiracy theorist loose. It's just out-of-the-grooves loose. Read: don't change. Or do. But don't.
Yes, ain't it the truth . . .
I have loose bricks. My personal washroom is crumbling . . . That is why @federica and the moderators and others keep an eye on me. I too to the best of my ability look out for them. I would suggest as before that @anataman is in a sense 'airing his dirty washing in public'. He means well AND he is helpful to some. I think he has greater talents ahead of him, more skilfulness if you will . . . that is my intention . . . to bring out new improved formula for myself and others . . .
@lobster I am disappointed, I thought all that was behind us.
It dumbfounds me how manufacturers strive to make their products smaller, more economical, yet maintain that it has twice the 'doing whatever it does' power it had before.
Incidentally, I was 5'1" once and am now 4'10" ...
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What you will not be disappointed with is 'new improved' agent x . . . but more than likely you will . . . it was never in front of us, it is just something to get through to the brighter, cleaner, clearer . . . [rambles off into laundry room] . . .
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Swatting at a wasp just keeps it close, and those who hate cats keep finding them in their lap.
And I'm a hot dog.
Just don't aspire to be a Chilli con carne burrito wrap with a hidden Bhut Jolokia Chilli in the middle....
Interesting reading; thanks for the comments - much was gleaned...
@federica said: I'm just surprised (if this is in fact the case, and it has only recently dawned on you) that you might ever have viewed it any other way.
It is the way I see it, but there seems to be an obfuscation that makes me forget or doubt this simple fact and that I need to constantly be mindful of it. This is merely a way of reminding myself ...;)...
Thanks @lobster. I know I'm not crazy, but it is fun to explore it at times, and airing the laundry in public allows others who like to eye up the neighbours dirty laundry, and who also like to point out how badly you are dealing with the skid marks, can be quite satisfying. I also take your point about the contrivances of speech - but much more can sometimes be communicated with nonsense as you know, than merely stating it 'as it is'. I have grown to respect certain peoples views and comments on this site and yours are always read with interest and 3D glasses; I've given up stating the obvious henceforth you will be pleased to hear. Maybe it's time to play the role of the... auger ... \ lol / ...
It’s been a few years but I read the book and it was very useful to me at the time.
What I remember. The book is about integrating the peak-experiences (the party) in ordinary life (the laundry).
The way I see it, there’s an important question underneath this problem of integration; the question about the nature of enlightenment and how it relates to unpleasant experiences; to feeling depressed or angry or to having problematic desires.
The warning in the book – again in my memory – is that if you (the general you) think that practice is going to liberate you from unpleasant feelings; you’re in for a huge disappointment.
The unpleasant feelings (the laundry) will be there. The question is how we relate to them.
Recently I read (I don’t remember who said it) that we wake up in the dream, not from the dream. The dream is still there; nothing changes. But because we are awake in the dream the hook is out.
(right speech) and therefore well said.
Mr Cushion is on his dream holiday . . .
Some poor beach bum is dreaming of a hovel in the city . . .
The important thing for us dreamy types is moving from the nightmare of dukkha to the Pureland realms protected by benevolent bodhis of our own imaging . . .
Next stop, laughing and picnicking in samsara (hell realms for the more benevolent) . . .
Had a laugh at this one! I was once 5'7" and currently topping out (with a stretch) at 5'4". Where did it go??
And I am not able to do 2X the work I used too.
So in an expanding universe - everything is shrinking!
Cool!