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@AldrisTorvalds said:
Cinorjer I think the best answer is "The sound is there, it just won't be recognized as a sound without a mind to perceive it. You could set up a recording device and capture the sound the tree makes, and listen to it later... yep, it makes a sound!". Any other arguing about it really is plain philosophy without any meat to it. I'd rather stick to realistic, pragmatic approaches.
My favorite take on it is the commercial here in the US where a tree yells as it falls, and then says, "Hey, a little help here!"
There would still have to be someone who looked at the film. The film could be like Schroedingers cat. It could be a probability wave that collapses into one or another reality when a human watches.
Right at the beginning Mahayana has already done away with a material self-existent world. "samsara" and concoction.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
We don't have a self but the world does... Hmm, nope.
I will add that one of the universes properties as my Lama taught in a dharma talk is that it is has both manifest and non-manifest. So until alaya has a seed sprout in consciousness that seed is non-manifest.
The other qualities of the universe are: fluxional, a heart feel, and precisely structured ie not an a 'blob' of emptiness.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I think another quality of the universe is the interconnectedness.
If the conditions are right, there will be light. That is not to say the unconditioned is dark.
@ourself said:
Well, in this instance I would call a wave the signal that must be received in order for a sound to be made.
In the case of photons, I'd guess the difference between a particle and a wave is purely behavioral depending on how it's detected.
Just guessing but it's fun to play, thanks!
We have come to a point in this thread that makes it difficult to know if someone is serious or not anymore...so if you were joking I will accept your "Duh" without hard feelings... .
I was just trying to point out that also the word Wave is a human construct.
/Victor
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@ourself said:
Are you contesting that the sound wave must be perceived for there to be a sound or that photons act according to how they are observed?
I think it's very difficult to talk outside the usual duality of subject and object, eg observer and sound - so without an observer "sound" becomes meaningless.
In one version of dependent origination in the suttas, consciousness and form are described as mutually dependent, which I think points to this duality.
@Victorious said:
1. It is conscious observation that changes the outcome of the double slit experiment.
2. Quantum mechanisms also prevail in the macro world...
No, it's just the presence of an outside influence.
No, our everyday world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics.
Comments
My favorite take on it is the commercial here in the US where a tree yells as it falls, and then says, "Hey, a little help here!"
There would still have to be someone who looked at the film. The film could be like Schroedingers cat. It could be a probability wave that collapses into one or another reality when a human watches.
Right at the beginning Mahayana has already done away with a material self-existent world. "samsara" and concoction.
We don't have a self but the world does... Hmm, nope.
I will add that one of the universes properties as my Lama taught in a dharma talk is that it is has both manifest and non-manifest. So until alaya has a seed sprout in consciousness that seed is non-manifest.
The other qualities of the universe are: fluxional, a heart feel, and precisely structured ie not an a 'blob' of emptiness.
I think another quality of the universe is the interconnectedness.
If the conditions are right, there will be light. That is not to say the unconditioned is dark.
Unless there are a lot of deaf squirrels...
We have come to a point in this thread that makes it difficult to know if someone is serious or not anymore...so if you were joking I will accept your "Duh" without hard feelings...
.
I was just trying to point out that also the word Wave is a human construct.
/Victor
@Victorious;
Tell me what you find so amusing and I'll tell you if I'm joking or not.
Are you contesting that the sound wave must be perceived for there to be a sound or that photons act according to how they are observed?
Yes, the word "wave" is a human construct but if you can name a label that isn't I'll send you a dollar.
I think it's very difficult to talk outside the usual duality of subject and object, eg observer and sound - so without an observer "sound" becomes meaningless.
In one version of dependent origination in the suttas, consciousness and form are described as mutually dependent, which I think points to this duality.