Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Sometimes we have to transcend the form. If you have ever heard a Tibetan Chant Master using this Mongolian methodology, you will know how cavernous chanting can be . . .
Like others here I do not listen to much music, the wind moving through the trees as it is now, is sufficient . . .
Thinking in terms of type of spiritual music or dharma enhancing music is not all that can be conveyed . . .
Music can heal hurt, cross barriers, touch the hurt and the heart.
Some years ago, I was on a long car drive, zoned out and sweeping the radio dial to find something to wake me up. Suddenly, out of the radio, this modulating voice emerged and cut through me like a knife. Jerked me from sleepy to alert in a second. It was a woman's voice, high pitched, and sounded like fast yodeling or something.
Turned out it was a PBS station and it was a recording of a woman in Africa doing something called Ululating. The professor went on to say their research showed through cat scans that everyone had a set of neurons deep in the part of the brain that responds to song and voice that light up when hearing this and cause the entire brain to become more active. It certainly worked for me.
His theory was, this is the first song that predates even language. It is the sound the women of the clan or family used to call the children in when there was a threat, or meal, or they just wanted to count heads. In Africa where still used, the children can recognize their own mother's singing versus someone else's. This ability turned into our appreciation of song.
He also says that's why women's voices are so much higher pitched. Men can do this, but a woman's voice carries across a large distance. Other cultures including Tibetan chanting use ululation. I don't think in the West we appreciate the unique abilities of this singing.
Here's one youtube video that has to touch your heart. It's a refugee from Darfur spontaniously bursting into ululation from happiness when she finds out she can feed her children.
Hmm, well I get the impression that the (Christian) devil is considered to be an autonomously existing, supremely naughty individual who goes around tricking and seducing people. Whereas Mara may just be a projection of our own delusions.
@SpinyNorman said:
Listening to music is the devils work, so just stop it!
Kia Ora
. ..
Metta Shoshin . ..
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@zenguitar said:
Hmm, well I get the impression that the (Christian) devil is considered to be an autonomously existing, supremely naughty individual who goes around tricking and seducing people. Whereas Mara may just be a projection of our own delusions.
>
No, the devil has also been likened to a projection of our own delusions, hence the image of the naughty devil on one shoulder and the good angel on the other....
@federica said:
No, the devil has also been likened to a projection of our own delusions, hence the image of the naughty devil on one shoulder and the good angel on the other....
Well, I'm sure a lot of non-Christians and some more liberal Christians may think the devil is just a projection or personification of negative emotions. But I would imagine the vast majority of conservative Christians in the world really believe in the existence of Satan as an independent being, and not just a metaphor or projection of the mind. Because if you accept the metaphor explanation for the Devil, then maybe God and Christ are also metaphorical...which seems to steer dangerously close to atheism. Doesn't it?
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
If you say so. I never give it any thought, it's a waste of time.
"Not nakedness, nor matted hair, nor filth,
Nor fasting long, nor lying on the ground,
Not dust and dirt, nor squatting on the heels,
Can cleanse the mortal that is full of doubt.
But one that lives a calm and tranquil life,
**Though gaily decked, ** -if tamed, restrained he live,
Walking the holy path in righteousness,
Laying aside all harm to living things,-
True mendicant, ascetic, Brahmin he."
Dhammapda v. 141-2
(F. L. Woodward translation, 1925)
@zenguitar said:
Well, I'm sure a lot of non-Christians and some more liberal Christians may think the devil is just a projection or personification of negative emotions. But I would imagine the vast majority of conservative Christians in the world really believe in the existence of Satan as an independent being, and not just a metaphor or projection of the mind.
Yes, if the devil is just a metaphor then so is God. There are a few non-theist Christians who see it like that.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited August 2014
For all we know, God (for the lack of a better term) isn't even awake yet.
But anyhow, I used to listen to music way more than I do now. I used to work in the music industry and got disillusioned pretty quickly. It's just about the money, honey.
Now, I prefer not to drown out the sounds of life but there's something about music that can really move. In some cases, music is like a language and I think it has its place.
What's next, we say all art is unskillful?
What is the difference between a symphony unfolding (or even improved jam style) and a beautiful sand mandala being designed and then wiped away?
Like everything else, it's a judgement call but personally, this Nirvana state sounds pretty boring sometimes depending on the view.
Comments
Okay, whatever the connection is between a Finnish bluegrass cover of AC/DC and the Dharma...it's fascinating nonetheless.
Sometimes we have to transcend the form. If you have ever heard a Tibetan Chant Master using this Mongolian methodology, you will know how cavernous chanting can be . . .
Like others here I do not listen to much music, the wind moving through the trees as it is now, is sufficient . . .
Thinking in terms of type of spiritual music or dharma enhancing music is not all that can be conveyed . . .
Music can heal hurt, cross barriers, touch the hurt and the heart.
I prefer the real rain to this:
http://m.wimp.com/choirhands
but what fun for performers and audience. Fun is often a dharma skill we need to learn . . . :wave: .
Some years ago, I was on a long car drive, zoned out and sweeping the radio dial to find something to wake me up. Suddenly, out of the radio, this modulating voice emerged and cut through me like a knife. Jerked me from sleepy to alert in a second. It was a woman's voice, high pitched, and sounded like fast yodeling or something.
Turned out it was a PBS station and it was a recording of a woman in Africa doing something called Ululating. The professor went on to say their research showed through cat scans that everyone had a set of neurons deep in the part of the brain that responds to song and voice that light up when hearing this and cause the entire brain to become more active. It certainly worked for me.
His theory was, this is the first song that predates even language. It is the sound the women of the clan or family used to call the children in when there was a threat, or meal, or they just wanted to count heads. In Africa where still used, the children can recognize their own mother's singing versus someone else's. This ability turned into our appreciation of song.
He also says that's why women's voices are so much higher pitched. Men can do this, but a woman's voice carries across a large distance. Other cultures including Tibetan chanting use ululation. I don't think in the West we appreciate the unique abilities of this singing.
Here's one youtube video that has to touch your heart. It's a refugee from Darfur spontaniously bursting into ululation from happiness when she finds out she can feed her children.
Listening to music is the devils work, so just stop it!
Or is it Mara's work?
there's a difference...?
Hmm, well I get the impression that the (Christian) devil is considered to be an autonomously existing, supremely naughty individual who goes around tricking and seducing people. Whereas Mara may just be a projection of our own delusions.
Kia Ora
.
..
Metta Shoshin .
..
>
No, the devil has also been likened to a projection of our own delusions, hence the image of the naughty devil on one shoulder and the good angel on the other....
Kia Ora
The devil is in the detail .
..
Metta Shoshin .
..
Well, I'm sure a lot of non-Christians and some more liberal Christians may think the devil is just a projection or personification of negative emotions. But I would imagine the vast majority of conservative Christians in the world really believe in the existence of Satan as an independent being, and not just a metaphor or projection of the mind. Because if you accept the metaphor explanation for the Devil, then maybe God and Christ are also metaphorical...which seems to steer dangerously close to atheism. Doesn't it?
If you say so. I never give it any thought, it's a waste of time.
Yes, it is.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the 7th precept.
"Not nakedness, nor matted hair, nor filth,
Nor fasting long, nor lying on the ground,
Not dust and dirt, nor squatting on the heels,
Can cleanse the mortal that is full of doubt.
But one that lives a calm and tranquil life,
**Though gaily decked, ** -if tamed, restrained he live,
Walking the holy path in righteousness,
Laying aside all harm to living things,-
True mendicant, ascetic, Brahmin he."
Dhammapda v. 141-2
(F. L. Woodward translation, 1925)
Yes, if the devil is just a metaphor then so is God. There are a few non-theist Christians who see it like that.
For all we know, God (for the lack of a better term) isn't even awake yet.
But anyhow, I used to listen to music way more than I do now. I used to work in the music industry and got disillusioned pretty quickly. It's just about the money, honey.
Now, I prefer not to drown out the sounds of life but there's something about music that can really move. In some cases, music is like a language and I think it has its place.
What's next, we say all art is unskillful?
What is the difference between a symphony unfolding (or even improved jam style) and a beautiful sand mandala being designed and then wiped away?
Like everything else, it's a judgement call but personally, this Nirvana state sounds pretty boring sometimes depending on the view.
That would be one explanation for the lack of input.