Buddhist Ecstasy
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
There are times when I suddenly become overwhelmed with everything. Tonight I am being overwhelmed, and it is really quite beautiful, and no drugs are involved (why I would even have to make such a statement beggars belief). The world becomes poetic, graceful and loving. Silence is... what it is. I am loathe to call it a blissful state because some people, probably those who have not experienced it, would denounce it, but it is in my experience a connection with IT. I would like to call it a glimpse of the underlying reality but .
So my question is this, if/when you feel like this how do you treat/deal with such experiences?
I realise one of them is to just shut up for fear of being regarded as foolish, heretic or blasphemic or otherwise, but why should we not share such experiences, without fear of critical repercussions?
Comments
Return to the breath.
just do what we have been doing but now there is a difference, a huge difference
i hope no one has to explain it to 'you' again
not because of fear
but
because 'those who criticize such an experience' would create bad kamma and it will be difficult for them to experience such blissful experience
My concern is that such experiences are generally brushed under the carpet, and already I feel that this has occurred with the 2 comments above. My general understanding is that such experiences are regarded as being experiences that should not be shared openly with the general public. I find this an extremely unsatisfactory situation.
Return to the breath - why? I am breathing, so do you, so what? Why can't I share this particular experience of blissful experience or union @Chaz?
@Upekka people do bad things all the time (and some of them can be quite nasty and indeed terrible, but they have the chance to redeem themselves surely?), it is quite plain that the bhavachakra is a representation of where someone is at any one instant,, and they can move up or down, depending on their being and criticising my experience should not impact ones ability to experience the same thing at some point on the wheel surely?
We all know happiness, and we all know unhappiness, and also guilt and and anger and hate.
Is not buddhist enlightenment the attainment of a realm of happiness that surpasses the simple and relative pleasures for a wiser understanding of a happy present being and awareness?
If and Only if your experience is one of the four stages (Stream Winner and above) then critisising would be 'arya apavada'
unless critiszing doesn't matter much
actually critisism would help us to think over about our experience and go forward
in other words
critisism itself would be a fuel to 'run' (walk) further
@anataman
They are most likely just pointing out that both ecstasy & despair are trickiest places to ever disentangle oneself from suffering's cause. Whatever you glomp onto or push away,
has a very long history of successfully keeping us sleeping in ignorance's embrace.
What do you think that your pronouncement of ecstasy does for yourself or anybody?
As for how to address such experiences...Why would you treat it any differently than any other arising, living and passing phenomena?
You can do whatever you like with your experience.
But you asked ....
And I answered.
It was a figure of speech. If something arises, such as these extatic feelings, then they are sure to disolve. No sense in forestalling the inevitable. Let it go. Return to the breath, so to speak.
I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that.
Euphoric experiences, are quite normal arisings. Since when are they swept under the carpet? I have them regularly. Given the right circumstances they arise. Just like onions produce wind. These states are openly discussed in sutrayana and considered impediments and hindrances that we naturally have preferences for and therefore have attachments and clinging to.
What have you attained union with? Overwhelming sense of awe, wonder, euphoria no doubt. Does it have a polarity, a beginning and end? Yes. Therefore it is an arising and return to the breath or cushion or back to the drawing board is the right advice.
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/janas.html
:wave: .
@anataman I think some experience should be shared, thanks for sharing!
This reminds of the book "A quiet forest pool" - Ajaan Chah
He goes on about how dangerous these blissful states are. Often people are reduced to tears they are so powerful. He cautioned that these states should not be sought after, if they arise be careful not to cling. Annica annica annica ...
However I know a lot of people never talk about there experiences for the above reasons.
That being said Ajaan did finish of with talking about him laying down in bed and his mind turned inward and exploded. He was quiet elaborate about his experience, in just going off the top of my head. This isn't a quote
. This was at the end of the book.
So a very accomplished teacher talks about an experience.
yes.. don't be arrogant with attainments (probably part of why Buddha mentions not mentioning them)
and yet, appreciate them, for they keep us going.
One Tibetan source says to treat them as rainbows. Beautiful and passing..
"strive for the beautiful"
Thanks for sharing!
It is lovely to read that there is joy, and that practice really provides us with the vehicle to tune in to all that is in tune
just some words, couldn't visit and not say hello!
Are you really asking what to do with the experience? Find a teacher and ask them. Or ask random dudes (and dudettes) on the internet. Your choice.
There is nothing wrong in sharing. Happiness at achivement is proper discernment.
But what you do is this.
You do not really need to ask us how to deal with it since you already know what this is as upekka hinted.
Following these kind of elevated experiences there will come a opposite force of depression sooner or later so that is why it is important to get "Back to the Breath" (or back to practise) as soon as possible so that when that backwash comes you will be prepared to catch yourself before you fall.
That is what I think a teacher would impart on you in one or other form ...
Hope it helps.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Writing something down might be helpful.
Another reason Teachers tell you to get Back to Breath is I suspect because it is very early in the morning and they just want to sip their morning tea and read the bloody news paper and they have no idea what the overzealous, ranting pupil is going on and on about.
Yes, he thinks, it could be a relevant achivement or maybe its just the haggis they had at that last meal?
Sometimes it is difficult to tell, at least before breakfast Tea and morning loo.
Better play it safe He thinks. Either "Patience young grasshopper!" or "Get back to Breath!"
Lets see now ... eenie meenie miny moe...
My experience is that is done because such experiences can easily become a distracting attachment that hinders progress.
One of the better explanations I have heard from zen teacher Brad Warner.
My local teacher is one of the Dalai Lama's senior monks (and also a Geshe).
He says that when you encounter ecstasy, don't pay any attention. It is not the goal of a Buddhist ... it is a distraction.
You just keep on doing your meditation techniques.
I think I have felt this during walking meditation where all labels are gone and everything flows together. As if all perspectives at once are present while none are being represented.
I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing but it helps to remember many others have had similar experiences even as they are totally different. Claiming one to be more "real" than another always causes problems.
This is just advice from my own perspective but when thinking about it, try not to see it through the eyes of faith but with a curious, open and discerning mind. It's a neat mind exercise and can be fun to share in the right company but it will serve as a distraction during meditation.
Check it out while it lasts but let it go when it's done and (not to sound dismissive at all because I hear you, believe me) return to the breath.
I think it should be paid attention to like everything else.
Why would you say that?
Let's enjoy the nice bits!
Perhaps he means don't pay it excess attention!
I had an image of John Clees ( Monty Python ) playing a sergeant major, screeching at a meditation "recruit":
"What's this, my lad, experiencing a bit of bliss are we? Bliss?! Watching the breath not good enough for you?! We can't have you experiencing bliss, my lad, this isn't a bleeding holiday camp you know...."
There are two (main)ways to go when encoutering a distraction. Normal way is to turn your attention back to the meditation object.
The other is to make the distraction the meditation object.
This is used when the distraction is very powerful.
See?
.
/Victor
Bliss isn't a "distraction" it's a stage of the path.
Bask in it.
Internalize it as a lesson.
Share it
Yes, LOLling at it is also a good option.
We haz plan...
(Don't YOU start....!
. )
Depends on if it is tanha or chanda involved. Dunnit?
It is a stage to pass by yes. Not to linger at.
But you know what feel free to stay as long as you like.
I am not gonna argue this with U.
I prefer the later equanimity. But also that can become a distraction.
/Victor
As soon as you start thinking again it's over anyways so enjoy it while it lasts. It's not like you can stay in that state forever... Who would feed you?
Dear GOD!
Thanks to those who saw what I was trying to get across, and for those who did not, who dwell in avidya, well you will get it one day I am sure, but today is not your day. This is not a disrespectful comment, but a compassionate one. However, I am a ridiculous being dwelling in the lowest realms of the nether regions of a total arse. However, for those who are awakened or are awakening, bless you! But don't let it go to your head...
You cannot dissociate yourself from your experiences. They are yours, enjoy them.
You cannot dissociate yourself from yourself. You are you, enjoy yourself.
For those who may see delight, it is there; and for those who don't, well it is there as well, you are seeing it in another format.
... :banghead: ...
Some would say when you walk, you are walking, and when you talk, you are talking, but when you are lost - whose the boss? I AM .. or .. AM I?
... \ lol /...
This has been such a fantastic voyage that I fear that I should not jump ship yet - in fact - I have decided to become a boddhisattva. Who wants to be a silly conceptualised buddha anyway?
Here is a song for you all - wave after wave - I can see the horizon... wave after wave
Stop inhibiting yourself with the clinging that binds you to the image of yourself that is a device that has brought you here, and yet you feel that you are dependent on it; that is so very compassionate, and deserving!
The Mahayana way is a very respectful way, and although there are many vehicles please, please, please see the middle way for what it is. It is straight down the line.
And for those of you who rely on a master or guru? I understand but at some point they have to be given up TOO - winky dinky doo too!?
Anataman no longer exists!
TTFN
xxx
Congrats.
But what on earth does God have to do with this? :coffee: .
'LOL!'... GOD is the last sound that Anataman (AKA boddhisatva LOL) makes as he disappears into the unknown ethereal oneness of universal being. BUUUYYYyyy 444444nnnoowwwwww he cries as his wavicles settle into the unsettledness of being bored witless for yet another eternity. Fortunately, he has plan, or a placebo, he's not sure yet....
...\ lol /... .. .
Ha ha ha. Dude dont worry. It wears of in a week tops.
. Enjoy.