Helping Others For All The Wrong Reasons
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
... :coffee: .. Keeping the following in mind "Karma" = Thoughts words & deeds
Going from Selfishness to Selflessness is a big thing in Buddhism (also in other religion too- but Buddhism seems to take it a step further-exploring it a little deeper)....
I take it that most reading this know about karma and the merit banking system and the high interest rates and how it works (I'm talking about on the surface levels - good begets good & bad begets bad etc etc and not the real nuts and bolts holding the machine together so to speak)...
Tis often said in Buddhist circles, that having the 'right' intention is of utmost importance...
If one really stops to think about why they do what they do, would most of the doing be out of right intention ? Or would there be a level of selfishness involved ? And can thinking too much(worrying) about why you do what you do, cause others to miss out on the help they might need?
I like to think I help others because I can and not because of the high interest merit banking involved, in other words I do it because "I can" (I'm in the fortunate position to help) and not because "I must" = (The merit carrot on the stick syndrome ) and if I was to think things like "Am I doing this because I want something for my 'self' out of it !" I might never offer to help...
A friend once mentioned how a few years ago, she face such a dilemma when working in a soup kitchen, she started to question why she was doing it, it caused her some grief and she stopped doing it, thinking she was doing it for all the wrong reasons, ie to make her feel better about her 'self'...
... :rolleyes: .. Just thinking out loud about the thin line between selfishness & selflessness when it comes to helping those in need... . 
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Comments
Your headline reminded me of my grandmother, who raised me. Back in the 1960s, she did things that were positive in regard to race relations -- hosted minority foreign college students at our home for holidays, at least once made us all attend an all-Black church, sort of "adopted" (in a loose sense) an exchange student from Kenya attending Cornell University, and so on.
But one day, even though I was only a young teen, I suddenly realized that there was an undertone attitude of "see how nice we are to you...aren't we so good" in the things she was doing.
We can all fall into the trap of doing "right" things for "wrong" reasons.
Lately, I've felt that way a little about the ice bucket challenge. Some do it for the excitement and fun and probably never send in a donation.
We humans can fail in so many ways. We must even examine our acts of compassion.
Do you know, I never think about it.
If it's a nice thing to do and I can do it, I'll do it.
If it's not a nice thing to do, I'll abstain, because really, it's not a nice thing to do...
I deal with the moment, and let the Kamma take care of itself.
To be honest with you, I don't give a thought to whether it makes me look good or not.
Truly, my brain doesn't want to work that hard.
Kamma is a complicated little beast - you never know whether the "Good Kamma" you are creating, is actually going to have an adverse effect, down the line or not, because I figured out long ago, that for every positive thing we do, someone, or something, somewhere along the line, loses out.
So I just work with the moment.
Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?
Apparently the 'Three Gates' Sufis "Go through" before acting, be it mentally, verbally or physically.
Sounds sound as a pound, to me.
( @Shoshin , tried to edit your post for you, regarding the emoticons. I had to give up... The preview showed them, posting the amended text, didn't. Go figure, 'cos' I can't!! )
I think it might be one of those fake it till you make it deals. Once you decide that the action is the right thing to do, do it and don't worry about what your mind comes up with. Maybe doing good things will become a habit. Then there will be plenty of opportunities to examine your motives and try to get them in line.
Yes, sometimes we do the right things for the wrong reasons, but at least we're doing some good.
I'm with @Robot, I think what's on the mind is sort of irrelevant to the behavior. To help someone hungry eat is good whether you're showing off cuz you're a sociopath or you feel genuine compassion. The hungry person gets fed. What part of the mind happened to be plaguing you at the moment has nothing to do with the hungry being fed.
So even if you polish your ego for all the good it makes you look, as long as you feed a hungry person, you've done good.
You won't particularly BENEFIT from the experience in terms of your personal evolution, but if you polish your ego that hard you may need another couple of lives before you can.
There's a million holes in this argument but not so much the closer you get to . . . the fundamental layer.
So if you are truly concerned that you are doing things for the wrong reason, that you even worry is a sign you are more than adequate, your heart is definitely in the right place.
What if your grandmother was simply teaching herself to accept people who are different and showing others that we don't have to fear what's different?
Accepting difference in America did not come the easy way.
I think @federica stated it well. If your intent and capacity to the best of your current understanding is aligned . . . just get on with it. Compassion and kindness is not hard, sometimes it may even seem harsh, no more sugar lollies for toddlers or make up for the masked. Karma balancing is just like getting into heaven by goodliness. Shameful motivation. Do good because you can.
:wave: .
I think the intention of generosity in Buddhism is to reduce ego clinging and the sense of self. It is skillful means. We don't give because we are selfless. We are selfless because we practice giving.
I'm pretty sure that's why wisdom and compassion must go hand in hand.
So, maybe there are no wrong reasons for helping and giving.
It's right view to see the world as interconnected rather than discrete. Any action you take to benefit anyone else therefore benefits yourself. This is the polar opposite of selfishness.
If you stop speculating about good and begin to practice it all becomes clearer. To even think to mention that you do good is a sign of a mind living in Mara's realm.
I find it inspiring to hear about the good that others are doing.
Accepting difference in America did not come the easy way.
Good question. But what I found was that in private moments her comments would be quite negative toward any concept of equality or acceptance. For example, as we would travel south each year and pass by a new development of homes designed for an African-American population, she would always say something along the lines of, "In 3 years that will be a dump, because that's the way they are." And later, when I was working in the D.C. area and she would visit she would become nearly apoplectic if she saw a mixed race couple...and now we are talking about the late 1970s.
If I help someone and they benefit and I get to feel good about myself for helping, what the heck is there to feel bad about?
EVERYONE's a winner. Isn't that really intelligent?
But if I help someone with the intention of hoping to get something back in return (like sex for example), then that's not a good intention.
@Shoshin
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Just thinking out loud about the thin line between selfishness & selflessness when it comes to helping those in need... .
When one responds to the universe in terms of self and other, all said intent will be tainted by self interest. In a Buddhist practice, the meditative exploration of that line of delineation is as important as the help that you offer anyone.
All of us are on a chaotic journey that slowly transits from self interest, to the helping of self & others, to just helping for helping's sake.
I think that as long as we maintain a meditative focus on the possibility that an intent can be tainted by self interest and that our primary practice is to not indulge that intent, regardless of where ever we are on the journey between self and selflessness, we are at least facing towards sufferings cessation.
If I help others and I feel good about it, I only feel bad about feeling good about 10% of the time now.
Generally I think it only reasonable to feel good when we are able to help but helping others with the sole intention of feeling good could be wrong intent. It's sure better than hurting anyone though.
Even if I dont want credit....I'm not going to let other people get credit. I may be wrong...but I got slighted a few times for doing all the work and other people getting all the praises....they sure didn't mind....and it made me mad.
As I've posted here before I was/used to clip coupons for troops. This lady at work used to bring in stacks and stacks of leaflets that come in the mail or in the weekly paper that her neighbors would throw in a bin by her front door. For months....I would take these stacks..... cut, and they have to be sorted also into catagories, etc...anyway...after 6 months...she comes into work with a big gold plaque with her name and said " look, what I got for the volunteer of the month for the coupons from the Vet assoc." Look...I didn't want my name on the damn plaque and I didn't want my pic taken with the head republicans....but she didn't say "thank-you, I couldn't have done it without you, this is for all of us or not even a kiss my butt". I'm not cutting for her anymore.
Church members around here ask for my crochet group to do all these blankets and stuff to donate....and a week later...I see the ladies in the paper, smiling with our stuff on the table with the name of whom they are giving it to. .. :grumble: ....
I feel like these kind of people do it for the wrong reasons. They think it was only them. The 'self' sickness ..
.. smiling while holding flowers and all...Look what I did...
I'm not spoiled by it all...I got plenty of other groups I'm involved with, and once I see someone wants credit all right....I'm out. Even if I leave my own name out...I will ALWAYS include the names of the other people that gave/contributed/worked on the project.
There can/will always be ugly sides of giving....but I'm never going to stop practicing it....and the good reasons outweigh the bad reasons.
I have found that when you have interactions with the actual people/person your helping....the ego stroke turns into feeling the compassion and metta of the moment and the opportunity. I think the above situations went sour bec a middle man cut that direct connection up....for me, at least.
"all said intent will be tainted by self interest"
Can you explain further?
It feels to me as if it's about putting my self interest aside and doing something I don't really want to do. For example I'm forced to go to an A.A. meeting I don't particularly like each week because I give two elderly alcoholics a lift there. Neither of them drive anymore and often, for one of them, this is the only time he leaves his flat.
Can you explain how me giving them a ride to a place I don't often want to go is tainted by self interest?
My self interest often is wanting to watch Netflix, rather than give these guys a lift. But I do it because it's the right thing to do.
That is adulthood.
Doing things for confirmation, status, feelings of karmic or heavenly reward etc is trading. That is the common motivation. Doing good for rewards however subtle.
Doing things because they are the right thing to do is just social maturity. I would suggest it is no great achievement.
Once you start finding a higher motivation, independent of such a token reward system, it's natural rightness is above personal rewards, reputation or inner need . . .
:wave: .
Yeah, @Shoshin, I don't like the merit banking system. I didn't even know about it until I'd been practicing for about 30 years on my own, without the guidance of a sangha. I just keep doing my own thing, and don't worry about merit, or pledging my merit savings account to whoever one can or should pledge it to. Is that concept found throughout Buddhism, or is it just Mahayana?
Tosh asked me to explain
When one responds to the universe in terms of self and other, all said intent will be tainted by self interest.
It feels to me as if it's about putting my self interest aside and doing something I don't really want to do. For example I'm forced to go to an A.A. meeting I don't particularly like each week because I give two elderly alcoholics a lift there. Neither of them drive anymore and often, for one of them, this is the only time he leaves his flat.
Can you explain how me giving them a ride to a place I don't often want to go is tainted by self interest?
@Tosh
I have no idea if a particular action you are doing is tainted by self interest or not but claiming it to be selfless by whether it is, or is not, a preferred activity is not a reliable test.
Self based actions need not be defined by whether an activity is a preferred one or not, as long as it re enforces your sense of identity. Attachments are as much about what you want, as being about what you don't want.
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.. No problem......This seems to occur with the original post when I start a new thread....Thanks for trying . 
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. :thumbsup: .. I remember hearing an Hindu teacher put it this way (I can't remember who)
"If you don't feel that you're enlightened, you can always 'try' to be!" .
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I would argue that NOT doing good deeds out of fear of your behavior appearing selfish is more destructive and self-interested than doing good deeds because people will think better of you.
At least self-interested generosity helps people, and to someone relieved of poverty of hardship, they usually don't care how genuine and heartfelt your help is.
So I'm not bothered by someone who does good things for the wrong reasons. It's the action that matters.
@Frozen_Paratrooper
I do not think people are suggesting not to do "good" deeds, but to rather examine the real intent behind the actions when you are doing them.
From the Buddhist point of view, the intent is as transmittable as the action and is the real determining factor for the resulting karma that results from the action.
If your good deed fails to be genuine for others just take that negative result as 'yours' and continue to give outwards. Repolarize the heart.
How is making oneself feeling good a wrong thing if it also make others feel better? It is certainly better than making oneself miserable just because others are also miserable ie. being a matyr. Now that is helping others for the wrong reason!
Matyr = One who is killed or suffers greatly because of an identity or a cause.
Beyond intention, beyond self, I think pragmatic here: is someone benefitting from my doing something, even if it is for the wrong reasons?
If somebody will have food on their plate, be clothed, find shelter, go to school, feel more optimistic, live ten more years by all the wrong people doing something for all the wrong reasons, who cares?