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SarahTTime ... space ... joySouth Coast, UKVeteran
Just found this which may be relevant:
In The Essence of the Heart Sutra, His Holiness the Dalai Lama wrote:
"According to Buddhism, compassion is an aspiration, a state of mind, wanting others to be free from suffering. It's not passive -- it's not empathy alone -- but rather an empathetic altruism that actively strives to free others from suffering. Genuine compassion must have both wisdom and loving-kindness. That is to say, one must understand the nature of the suffering from which we wish to free others (this is wisdom), and one must experience deep intimacy and empathy with other sentient beings (this is loving-kindness)."
[empasis added]
2
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
There was little to salvage as far as acceptance went at that point. How does one accept behaviour that is destructive to oneself and others?
I think 'accept' takes on a wider meaning, more like 'it is what it is' than "this is OK with me". Like the judgment (as 'bad') is left out. Of course what you went through was awful and caused terrible consequences, no doubt. You can't put icing on a turd and call it an eclair. Your experience was, at the same time, a universal one, common enough, natural and organic enough, and put you firmly in the category of human being. Compassion flows from that, in how I see it and helps one run fast in the other direction!
ETA: "Self love" is baffling to me, too. Something that hasn't really hit home, or maybe it has and I just don't recognize it. I am barely beginning to have compassion for myself, which means standing back, detaching a bit, and regarding myself from some version of objectivity.
0
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
@Lonely_Traveller said:
Curiously enough Hamsaka in Mindfulness in Plain English Bhante Gunaratana says that accepting yourself as you are is a key initial step.
I 'hear' this from many sources, some scriptural/from teachers, and sometimes from fiction books. Maybe I'm listening for it, but it sure does seem to pop out from the backdrop often enough.
What that MEANS in moment-to-moment living, as a 'practice', is barely understandable to me. It just has that certain resonance of 'truth', and seems possible.
I am barely beginning to have compassion for myself, which means standing back, detaching a bit, and regarding myself from some version of objectivity.
Know Thself
Delphi Oracle
At times in our lives, our present day, our future, we may act
stupidly
immaturely
irrationally
unskilfully
crazed
sick
hurtfully
[insert trait]
. . . just as we may also develop the opposite qualities.
Knowing and accepting and understanding our selves is part of an objective processing. The reason we can with practice have compassion for ourselves is because this is the person we know the most about . . . The person that sits with us.
@Lonely_Traveller said:
Curiously enough Hamsaka in Mindfulness in Plain English Bhante Gunaratana says that accepting yourself as you are is a key initial step.
Fully accepting the present is a strong theme of Ajahn Sumedho's - the way it is.
Yes, though self-acceptance and present-acceptance seems to be related but different activities. It might be interesting to explore the difference.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited October 2014
@SpinyNorman said:
Yes, though self-acceptance and present-acceptance seems to be related but different activities. It might be interesting to explore the difference.
That's thought provoking.
Off the bat it sounds like two different points of focus. However, the closer I inspect the border, the more subtle the distinction. Even as neither can be rightly nailed down.
@ourself said:
Off the bat it sounds like two different points of focus. However, the closer I inspect the border, the more subtle the distinction. Even as neither can be rightly nailed down.
In simple terms it might be difference between accepting how we are, and accepting how the world is ( or, more accurately, "our world" ).
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I get that but without the mud, there would be no lotus.
A way to begin compassion, is to develop some for yourself. Take some part of yourself that you are ashamed of (like my beer belly for example), and develop compassion for it. As I loved my belly, I began to change the way I thought about it. It used to be a source for shame for me. Then as I thought about it lovingly, I realized it was a good thing I had it. It had stopped me from over-eating many times. It made me mindful of my bad habits. Then I came to realize, it was stopping me from over-indulging all the time. If I did not have my belly, I would likely over-indulge with no letting up. The more I cared for my belly, the more it began to teach me. It taught me to change my eating habits and it is like a friend. Whenever I am tempted to return to my old ways, sure enough, it returns to help me be aware. But the biggest lesson it has taught me, is the value of loving myself. All of myself. Even the parts I hate the most. It taught me true compassion. As an aside, it also taught me a lot of compassion for other people who have problems with their weight. I love them to. I really love to see them succeed.
Comments
Just found this which may be relevant:
"According to Buddhism, compassion is an aspiration, a state of mind, wanting others to be free from suffering. It's not passive -- it's not empathy alone -- but rather an empathetic altruism that actively strives to free others from suffering. Genuine compassion must have both wisdom and loving-kindness. That is to say, one must understand the nature of the suffering from which we wish to free others (this is wisdom), and one must experience deep intimacy and empathy with other sentient beings (this is loving-kindness)."
[empasis added]
@Robot said:
I think 'accept' takes on a wider meaning, more like 'it is what it is' than "this is OK with me". Like the judgment (as 'bad') is left out. Of course what you went through was awful and caused terrible consequences, no doubt. You can't put icing on a turd and call it an eclair. Your experience was, at the same time, a universal one, common enough, natural and organic enough, and put you firmly in the category of human being. Compassion flows from that, in how I see it
and helps one run fast in the other direction!
ETA: "Self love" is baffling to me, too. Something that hasn't really hit home, or maybe it has and I just don't recognize it. I am barely beginning to have compassion for myself, which means standing back, detaching a bit, and regarding myself from some version of objectivity.
I 'hear' this from many sources, some scriptural/from teachers, and sometimes from fiction books. Maybe I'm listening for it, but it sure does seem to pop out from the backdrop often enough.
What that MEANS in moment-to-moment living, as a 'practice', is barely understandable to me. It just has that certain resonance of 'truth', and seems possible.
Know Thself
Delphi Oracle
At times in our lives, our present day, our future, we may act
. . . just as we may also develop the opposite qualities.
Knowing and accepting and understanding our selves is part of an objective processing. The reason we can with practice have compassion for ourselves is because this is the person we know the most about . . . The person that sits with us.
Metta to all, including self.
:thumbsup: .
Fully accepting the present is a strong theme of Ajahn Sumedho's - the way it is.
@SpinyNorman I recently re-read The Way It IS and I'd have to concur as @Hamsaka said earlier in the thread everything is as it is.
Yes, though self-acceptance and present-acceptance seems to be related but different activities. It might be interesting to explore the difference.
That's thought provoking.
Off the bat it sounds like two different points of focus. However, the closer I inspect the border, the more subtle the distinction. Even as neither can be rightly nailed down.
In simple terms it might be difference between accepting how we are, and accepting how the world is ( or, more accurately, "our world" ).
I get that but without the mud, there would be no lotus.
A way to begin compassion, is to develop some for yourself. Take some part of yourself that you are ashamed of (like my beer belly for example), and develop compassion for it. As I loved my belly, I began to change the way I thought about it. It used to be a source for shame for me. Then as I thought about it lovingly, I realized it was a good thing I had it. It had stopped me from over-eating many times. It made me mindful of my bad habits. Then I came to realize, it was stopping me from over-indulging all the time. If I did not have my belly, I would likely over-indulge with no letting up. The more I cared for my belly, the more it began to teach me. It taught me to change my eating habits and it is like a friend. Whenever I am tempted to return to my old ways, sure enough, it returns to help me be aware. But the biggest lesson it has taught me, is the value of loving myself. All of myself. Even the parts I hate the most. It taught me true compassion. As an aside, it also taught me a lot of compassion for other people who have problems with their weight. I love them to. I really love to see them succeed.