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"Letting Bygones Be Bygones" Easier said than done....

ShoshinShoshin No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
edited November 2014 in General Banter

In 'theory' letting go doesn't sound too difficult a thing to do... After all, for the most part it's just a feeling and one should be able to 'just drop it' right? ...However putting the Dharma into practice is where the fun and games begin... >:)

Some can work on it for many years and say all the 'right' things, like quoting the Buddha or other Gurus when advising others, but when push comes to shove and the SHTF in their own life, the old grudge bearing self more often than not wins out. especially when one feels they have been deeply wronged by another, for example perhaps they have had a 'run in' with a friend or partner over something trivial , and what started off as trivial, just a few lines scribbled in pencil, ends up an ongoing novel in bold print-with all the mental crap filling the blank pages ie, "He said...She said ...Blar Blar Blar" all going on inside ones head... :s

This week I've been a confidant to three people (three separate issues), two neighbours,and a work friend, each spilled out their troubles to me, getting it off their chest - out of their system so to speak, two of them it would seem have the tools to work through their issues, however one will no doubt continue to grapple with her issue, because it's a long term "grudge" her mind is clouded and she can not see any good in the other person...

Over the years I've had to 'let go' of many things in my life, material items, relationships, ideas, mental crap....And deep ongoing meditation on the ever changing face of my 'self' 'Anatta' has lead to a deeper understanding of what the Buddha meant by "Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" "Nothing whatsoever should be clung too!" after all who or what is it that's hurt or offended ?

It would seem I've improved lots over the years, I can drop most things, but I'm still a work in progress - which means I have to be 'honest with my self and the feelings that arise when confronted with certain issues....(This forum for example, is a good training ground for the Dharma warrioress or warrior ) B)

What's your method of letting go of unwholesome thoughts, worries or grudges ? How do you let bygones be bygones ?

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A little Zen tale on attachment (Just for the sake of it)

The Burden

"Two monks were returning to the monastery in the evening. It had rained and there were puddles of water on the road sides. At one place a beautiful young woman was standing unable to walk across because of a puddle of water. The elder of the two monks went up to a her lifted her and left her on the other side of the road, and continued his way to the monastery.

In the evening the younger monk came to the elder monk and said, “Sir, as monks, we cannot touch a woman ?”

The elder monk answered “yes, brother”.

Then the younger monk asks again, “but then Sir, how is that you lifted that woman on the roadside ?”

The elder monk smiled at him and told him ” I left her on the other side of the road, but you are still carrying her.”

I apologise in advance for being "ultra" Buddhist in my approach to things...I know this is frowned upon by some (I've tried not to be but I just can't help myself) o:):D

lobsterSarahTRowan1980Buddhadragonmmo

Comments

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    Hi Shoshin.

    Would this not also come under the heading of 'letter of the law vs spirit of the law'?
    Iow, when they said to not 'touch' a woman, didn't they mean in a carnal way and not literally?

    But this, the punch line is very cool: "The elder monk smiled at him and told him ” I left her on the other side of the road, but you are still carrying her.”

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited November 2014

    @silver said:
    Hi Shoshin.

    Would this not also come under the heading of 'letter of the law vs spirit of the law'?
    Iow, when they said to not 'touch' a woman, didn't they mean in a carnal way and not literally?

    But this, the punch line is very cool: "The elder monk smiled at him and told him ” I left her on the other side of the road, but you are still carrying her.”

    @silver, I think in some traditions monks are not meant to 'touch' females physically but I could be wrong....Yes the punch line is B) and so true when it comes to holding on to things well pass their use by date....

  • I think there is simply variation among humans how difficult they struggle with their emotions. Part of it is probably genetic. I wonder what we could find if we could measure 'grudges' tendency in twins separated at birth? But that is not to say that a persons path is totally in a fatalistic way determined by genes; I would guess it's also due to life lessons learned.

    ShoshinRowan1980
  • It depends where you are in the parts of your fragmented being.

    We are not SuperZen or CompassionMaster or UberBuddha, we are just trying.

    Trying to overcome foibles, Dukkha, a sense of incompleteness and attachments to what we carry, karma if you will.

    I think we have to be forgiving of even the Buddha who died, instead of being reborn into perpetual being like some sort of ChristBoddhisattva.

    . . . and now back to the OrdinaryFun . . . :p

    ShoshinRowan1980mmo
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    When I find myself in a situation where I am antagonised, insulted, attacked or merely put into a defensive situation, I breathe, and 'protect MYSELF' first and foremost, by mentally conjuring up an image of a Metta full metal jacket, enveloping me.
    Then, and only then, do I turn the metta round on the source of the problem.
    I find it works much better that way.
    Isn't there a metaphor for doing that, wherein we are urged to protect ourselves first, by applying our own oxygen mask, prior to helping others with theirs, in an aircraft?

    DavidBuddhadragon
  • @federica said:
    When I find myself in a situation where I am antagonised, insulted, attacked or merely put into a defensive situation, I breathe, and 'protect MYSELF' first and foremost, by mentally conjuring up an image of a Metta full metal jacket, enveloping me.

    'Full Metta Jacket'? They made that into a movie! ;)
    Good plan. I use the 'Cloak of Dewachan' or Metta pulse, others use Tonglen
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    Metta as body armour....an interesting way of looking at it.

  • @SpinyNorman said:
    Metta as body armour....an interesting way of looking at it.

    You haz spine, I haz shell . . . :p

    SarahTsilverKundoRowan1980
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Metta as body armour....an interesting way of looking at it.

    >

    Just following procedure, apparently.....

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @federica said:
    When I find myself in a situation where I am antagonised, insulted, attacked or merely put into a defensive situation, I breathe, and 'protect MYSELF' first and foremost, by mentally conjuring up an image of a Metta full metal jacket, enveloping me.
    Then, and only then, do I turn the metta round on the source of the problem.
    I find it works much better that way.
    Isn't there a metaphor for doing that, wherein we are urged to protect ourselves first, by applying our own oxygen mask, prior to helping others with theirs, in an aircraft?

    I sooo love the metaphor of the metta full-metal jacket, Fede... <3

    From now on, I'm absolutely donning the recently launched Full-METTA-jacket... :)

  • @Vastmind said:
    ^^^ Ditto.

    My last grudge was on this very forum....on full display for all to see.

    :)
    Several times people have felt a need to protect their sense of identity, or their point of view, or the correct dharma. We are attached or grasp those certainties. However . . . what does letting go mean? For me it is this continual and habitual rigidity that is as you mention what we work on.

    We are not right, if there is an opposing possibility. Our sense of hurt or being slighted is projection, if intended then why insist on receiving?

    The openess and fluidity, spaciousness of being is something we awaken and find arising. It is perhaps having a bigger heart.

    For me that people are flawed is never an issue. That they are prepared and able to let go of grudges, peeves, dislikes and other lesser obstacles is always inspiring . . . <3

  • Gee does that mean you forgive the smart-ass comments I make? I hope so. Trying to be more skillful. Sometimes it's best just to stop if it is going wrong. For me the table is white. I don't see any reason to change the truth except when it is in error then of course it must be changed. I am a yogi with all that entails my direction would have been a spiritual one only. Not the middle way. for me it meant a lot reverifying

    SarahTHamsakaShoshin
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited November 2014

    I often think our grudges and our responses to them, better define the fragility of our identities than anything else.
    Developing a higher priority on illuminating the factors behind that fragility, over our more usual instincts to protect that fragility at all costs, is one of the best Dharmic teachers available to anyone.

    lobsterShoshinHamsaka
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Greg911, is your comment aimed at me?
    If so, forgiveness has nothing to do with it.
    My emotive input is suspended at times of Moderation, believe it or not.
    I deal with the pertinent issue and get it over and done with.

    And we tend to prescribe pretty much to The Middle Way being preferable to any other extreme, mild or otherwise.

    ;)

  • @federica said:
    Greg911, is your comment aimed at me?
    If so, forgiveness has nothing to do with it.
    My emotive input is suspended at times of Moderation, believe it or not.
    I deal with the pertinent issue and get it over and done with.

    And we tend to prescribe pretty much to The Middle Way being preferable to any other extreme, mild or otherwise.

    ;)

    No, I meant what I said that the job you do is not an easy one. I would not like to have it. It does explain why I got the feeling you were dealing with a dog. luckily I love dogs. Only harm would I might have been deleted. I know I have come close. Power is a real hard one if you have it. Sometimes I am tempted to use it unwisely. That is when I center myself and seal myself in. I block all incoming negative energy and block all outgoing negative energy. Sometimes it is a real battle inside.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    What's your method of letting go of unwholesome thoughts, worries or grudges ? How do you let bygones be bygones ?

    If I am dealing with someone's unskillful action or comment, I address the issue with the perpetrator of the action or comment on the spot and get it out of my system immediately, rather than stew over it.
    Perfect way to avoid grudge-buildup holing into one's heart.

    I don't even bother with worries unless they pose a real threat in my life, in which case, I devise a plan of action to come up with a solution.

    Unwholesome thoughts? I actively replace them with positive thoughts.
    Chant a mantra or positive affirmation, or simply read a good book and change the vibes.
    Staying focused on the present moment is the best method.

    lobsterVastmindShoshinmmo
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @how said:
    I often think our grudges and our responses to them, better define the fragility of our identities than anything else.
    Developing a higher priority on illuminating the factors behind that fragility, over our more usual instincts to protect that fragility at all costs, is one of the best Dharmic teachers available to anyone.

    That's so true @how....Meditate...Meditate...Meditate...then Meditate some more seems to be my motto nowadays...

    However having to face up/confront our 'selves' warts and all, can be quite a daunting task, especially when Mrs or Mr Pride make an appearance (which they often do), the last thing Mrs or Mr Pride wants to do is lose face and so all the excuses in the blame book are looked into in order to justify ones past actions with the intent to plant the blame on others...

    I'm the first to admit at times I've been guilty of this and in the not so distant past it was part of the norm, but nowadays I'm managing to catch my 'self' before it gets to out of hand...

    lobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:
    If I am dealing with someone's unskillful action or comment, I address the issue with the perpetrator of the action or comment on the spot and get it out of my system immediately, rather than stew over it.

    Perfect way to avoid grudge-buildup holing into one's heart.

    I don't even bother with worries unless they pose a real threat in my life, in which case, I devise a plan of action to come up with a solution.

    Unwholesome thoughts? I actively replace them with positive thoughts.

    Chant a mantra or positive affirmation, or simply read a good book and change the vibes.
    Staying focused on the present moment is the best method.
    >

    That's a good approach @DharmaDragon, however at times I've found it's wiser to avoid confrontations which could fuel the fire even more (creating an inferno), and let bygones be bygones by just dropping it

    Sometimes you just 'know' when it's best to cut your losses...

    “To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.”

    lobster
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran
    I did not quite mean "starting a fight every time," @Shoshin.
    Sometimes you simply misunderstand what the other person meant and maybe stew until your next meeting over a comment that was not even said in the first place.
    Sometimes friends come to me and complain: "Look what she said to me..."
    I shrug and ask: "Did you ask her what she meant by that or why she said that?"
    Most of the time they got offended over something they thought was said... but wasn't.
    Shoshin
  • SarahTSarahT Time ... space ... joy South Coast, UK Veteran

    People often feel ignored/rejected when others don't greet them. More often than not it's because the other had something going on that took their attention and they simply didn't see that person or didn't feel up to talking. Crazy - even arrogant - to take that personally.

    A friend once told me he didn't greet me when he was me at Waterloo, even though we hadn't seen each other for some time, because he noticed the black cloud hanging over my head and was sensitive enough to realise that I was not in the right place to talk. Worried me when he first said this - I know I am transparent but didn't realise I was giving out quite such bad vibes! - but I am grateful for those who don't take things personally when I am in a world of my own. And I have learnt not to take other people's comments personally but to use them as learning more about what makes that person tick.

    Namaste, always.

    silverBuddhadragonlobsterShoshin
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited November 2014

    This teaching on how to deal with grudges resonates with me especially when you are more than half way through life's journey.

    The way to really live is to die. The passport to living is to imagine yourself in your grave. Imagine you’re lying in your coffin….Now look at your problems from that viewpoint. Changes everything, doesn’t it?

    de Mello

    "Therefore you should train yourselves: 'We will dwell heedfully. We will develop mindfulness of death acutely for the sake of ending the effluents.' That is how you should train yourselves."

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.019.than.html

    JeffreyShoshin
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