confronting or hurting in order to help.
Rhodian
Loser Veteran
Hello I had quite a fruitful morning, at least things to think about this morning.
I went to the doctor I have a thyroid issue at the moment, and had to let them take my blood, in order to this they stick a needle in my arm which hurts, also I have to get a wisdom tooth removed sooner or later this will also hurt in order to help me. And I could go on naming things in which people have to hurt you in order to help you. Wether it is bone setting or something else.
There is also a movie with buddhist themes I think Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. For those that do not know the movie it's about a monk that adopted a kid somehow, he lives remote in the middle of a lake in a floating temple. In the movie you go trough seasons and see what changes, I won't spoil a lot but if you think you like the movie go check it out however it's quite a dry movie don't expect a lot happening i thought it was nice though. Anyway the kid goes around taking rocks and a rope and makes a knot to the rock and then attaches the rope with rock to animals. Like for example a snake or a frog, of course the animal cannot move well with this hinderance, now the monk sees the kid doing this but he does not say a thing. He however looks for a big stone slab and when the kid sleeps that night he attaches the slab with a rope to the kid. The kid wakes up and is suffering from the rock moving is hard etc, the monk tells him however to go free animals he has tied up with the rock and thus he has to go and set them free.
Now if I would throw a stone slab on a kid for doing this they might say I make the kid suffer? However I am sure the kid learns a nice lesson with this action what the monk did is not violent he did not hit the kid, he taught him a lesson in a painful way for the kid though. I was wondering what you thought of this?
Last there is being a confrontal/agressive in speech I guess confrontal is the best way. A girls I know texted me on whatsap I should really remove some numers, but alright I know her from old times. Anyway I was polite asked how she was doing she said she didn't sleep. Turns out she was worrying about a friend who broke his hand but was heavily under influence of XTC and tripping, so he didn't notice his arm and she said she couldn't sleep til he woke up and went to hospital.
Later she let me know she was worried that he was doing worst so I told her he probably has to go in rehab stop with the drugs, she said he didn't want to because he already was in rehab for alcohol, so I told her to switch one addiction for another or juggling with addictions does not improve anything. That she has to be careful to with getting to attached to such people. Later she even told me he didn't want to stop with selling XTC... At this point I was a bit flabbergasted. So I said that he was making victims all over the place, and should stop not only for those victims himself to. She replied with that there is no problem with selling XTC only using it. So I said but if an alcoholic sells alcohol surely he is gonna drink some from time to time? She then agreed, and told me she loved him etc. I told her she should stop weed herself and stop meeting with all those guy (they meet and then use drugs) I told her as long as you keep comming together smoking weed and drugs nothing good will come. She told me nothing is wrong with weed. At this point I was feeling quite tired with it told her I am going to eat/shower.
Now I think I should have been a bit more confrontal or a bit more. On the other hand I think it might even be impossible to help such people, if they think weed is healthy and such well I do not know.
So in this topic the question is: Phsyical pain in order to heal someone is good.
Is it alright to teach someone a lesson in a non violent way but as in the example of the monk I gave.
In speech should one be confrontal or more agressive when reasoning does not work or should the reasoner just give up, I mean I know as being brought up as a catholic, 'oh he got cancer let's pray for him!' Mindset does not really help people whatsoever.
Thanks for your time!
Comments
Wow, I think that's a difficult and complex question.
I also don't think there's going to be any black and white answers either. Drawing from my own experience, I think I often want to try and force people to do what I consider 'the right thing'. And my natural inclination is to be confrontational or aggressive (especially if I have some kind of personal vested interest in the situation). Maybe it's because I spent a long time in the army and giving orders comes kind of natural?
But it's just not effective. All it seems to do to people who don't have to follow my orders (which is everyone), is annoy them. Maybe they'll see me as a 'bum hole' and write me off as an idiot?
Now what I do find effective, when trying to modify someone else's behaviour (and this works great with my daughter too), is to share from my own experience and be honest about it. For example when she lost interest in her school exams, my natural inclination would be to bully her into doing her homework/revising, but instead - knowing this isn't effective - I just sat down next to her (shoulder to shoulder) and explained how I regretted not working harder at school and what the effect that had on my life. It really was more powerful than bullying her and creating resentments in her. And let's face it, can we study when we're resentful about it?
Or when I'm speaking with an alcoholic, I'll never tell them to do anything - I'll just share my story of alcoholism - and hope they see themselves in it. I will however, if I think it's appropriate, and if I've earned the right, give some cold hard truths. But only if it feels like it's going to be effective.
And the bottom line is that I'm not in charge of anyone else's behaviour; just my own. I think the best attitude is to try to help, but don't worry too much about the outcome.
hth
@Tosh
Thanks for your reply, perhaps then it is better when I have no such experiences to let them know I cannot help them and they should seek an proffesional. Because I do have this feeling many more people in my life will come with problems I don't know jack about.
Thanks a lot for your reply, and your awesome advice, I can totally relate to regretting not studying really... Thanks again!
90% of problems people tell you about, are just a desire on their part, to be heard.
Everybody fundamentally wants to be understood, appreciated and loved.
Sometimes, they go about finding those things, the wrong way. Sometimes, our way of explaining HOW they can find those things is also 'wrong' because the time may be wrong, or it may not be something they want - or need - to hear.
When we experience pain, we know there is a formula to follow, with regard to dealing with it skilfully. We have talked about it on here often (The twin arrow analogy).
When others around us are in pain, however, telling them about this analogy is an inconsiderate and tactless thing to do, there and then.
Sometimes, all people really need, is a hug.
I think that's well worth noting, especially if you're a male, like me.
Us men are 'fixers'; I see someone who is suffering and I want to fix 'em.
Females seem to be a lot better at listening, empathising, and providing emotional support without the 'fixing' business; which is more effective than me throwing around my unsolicited advice.
That's probably a bit sexist; sorry; but as a very broad generalisation, I think that's true.
@Tosh
Actually you might be right because I always want to fix as well. I feel like giving a hug and being like 'oh everything will be alright' is a bit non-productive. Probably something I have to work on as a person.
I hate to sound like a yes-man right winger, but you're absolutely right, @Tosh. Women rant, and sometimes, just need an ear, not a solution.
Men seem to think that if a woman is getting something off her mind, it's because she expects him to fix it.
That's a very general assessment, and I'm sure not universally accurate, but in the main, it's spot-on.
Even Dear Dr Phil - that eminent, world-class counsellor, psychologist and legal beagle, solves problems. He has an answer to everything, a reason underlying every problem, and a way to confront it.
Sometimes, I feel like saying "Why don't you just shut dafuq up, and gimme a cuddle ?!"
(I would hastily add that's to my H, not Dr Phil.....)
Listening and being kind is a good policy.
The fix it mentality of males is not always possible in dharma . . . people normally have to be given the space to find their unique personal answer.
We are very fortunate because uniquely on this forum, we have a high percentage of empathisers.
From the fix it side we are often presented varied options, the most valuable are usually based on personal experience.
Confronting is an advanced strategy, sometimes used in zen and crazy wisdom. Beginners who try and implement 'tough love' quite often are not always ready for this strategy, which even at the best of times is risky but potentially very transformative.
Confront yourself first . . . well that is my plan . . .