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But, wherever he is "from" (whatever "from" means) does not alter my point.
A gang war in L.A. is not much different from the US versus the USSR in Vietnam...except for scale.
A bully group such ISIS is not really much different from a bully kid in junior high...except for scale.
My point is that to change human nature in terms of ending all war, as seen throughout human history, is unfathomable. Cut the goal down. Start small. Make your efforts manageable.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Well, in that case, the IP locator engine I'm using, drastically failed at geography!
@Zero said:
Perhaps we're not so far apart though - you say 'think outside the box' and I say ' you wouldn't recognise the human who could achieve it as a human now'... outside the human box.
@Hamsaka said:
Victorious said:
I see Buddhist practice as a way to reshape some of that stubborn stuff like aggression and tribalism. They are sort of like defaults, but we aren't doomed to them, at least individuals aren't. Just learning to be mindful thwarts a lot of impulsive, instinctive behavior or reactions. If a critical mass of individuals in a group becomes mindful enough, there will be pressure on the rest to get with the program.
I think with the internet society rapidly developing people are getting more active and are being able to see and understand better what is going on in the world.
But there is always deception and censure too. But the tools are there if the populous becomes mindful enough.
And I do see the storm of mindfulness courses bombarding the society at all levels.
I even hear that some schools are considering mindfulness in their education. That is fantastic.
@vinlyn said:
I woke up this morning thinking about a dream I had (about students being bullied by a teacher) and this thread. And spending a little time on the issue clarified for me why I am so turned off by the general concept of what is proposed by this thread.
And there are two issues I have with it. It would be a wonderful world if there were no more wars. But that assumes that every leader (and all the leaders) of every country are going to suddenly decide that war is not the answer to their various problems.
So, Victorious, I was thinking of your situation. As I recall, you're from Sweden. And you made a comment that Sweden has not been involved in a war for 200 years. Well, I find it just a tad convenient that you chose that particular time frame, but okay. But it's also true that Sweden cooperated with Germany in World War I, and concurrently provided volunteers to fight against Russians in the Finnish Civil War. In WWII, Sweden again cooperated with Germany, supplied war materials to Germany and supplied volunteers to fight in a number of war-related efforts. Today, Sweden is officially non-aligned, although your military cooperates in joint military exercises with NATO, "Swedish companies export weapons that were used by the American military in Iraq", and participates in international military operations, including Afghanistan.
But even putting that aside, let's look at a couple of scenarios. Scenario 1: Russia decides to take over Sweden. Oh I know, it's ridiculous to think that in today's Europe that one nation would attempt to take over another; the borders are all stable. Oh wait...excluding what's currently happening in Ukraine. Scenario 2: Some nutty group begins proposing ethnic cleansing in Sweden. Oh I know, it's ridiculous to think that ethnic cleansing could occur in civilized Europe (except of course in Armenia, Austria, Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Croatia, Cyprus, Germany, Greece, Georgia, Herzegovina, Hungary, Italy, Poland, Russia, Romania, Serbia, and Yugoslavia. Did I leave any out?
And no, I'm not forgetting what my own country has done, and still may do (American Indians, African slaves, the Vietnam War, Cambodia, etc.). I fully expect to see a rising tide of anti-Muslim fervor right here in the United States.
I think you make an excellent point on why we should pursue world peace. Think about all that misdirected effort and resources put into solving real problems?
But, if you really want to end all war, buy a ticket to Syria and sit down and have a nice friendly chat with ISIS. That's starting small! Let us know how that goes.
Wouldn't that be a bit contra productive? They might shoot me.
Or worse.
Wouldn't it be easier and safer to end that war by eradicating the IS?
I mean if you want it done fast?
/Victor
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Victorious said:If you look up my ip now you see better where I am from. I sometimes forget to disengage my work ip.
@Victorious said:
Sure thang. Now you just lend me control over the collected US forces and I'll have the middle east spic and span for you by end of august.
I just watched a documentary on Netflix called "I am" and it was quite wonderful. It addresses, in part, the problem you present with what to do about poverty and how much of an impact small changes make across the human spectrum. It's about a rich movie maker looking for answers to life after he almost died, so there is a lot of stuff covered. I thought a lot of it was fitting for the discussion we had here. So if you have Netflix or can find it online otherwise, I highly recommend. There is a lot of discussions about how small things have had huge impacts, and that war is NOT our natural state, despite it having been ongoing for all of humanity. Very good.
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HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
I watched "I Am" some time ago and agree, it touched me deeply. Good stuff in that docu, and inspiring, it was to me.
It had been in my watch list for some time, but I had been delaying watching it for such a silly reason-the title! I kept thinking "here I'm trying to get away from that attachment of "I am" so why would I watch this?" Not even remotely related. The title is pretty all encompassing, but where it comes from is explained near the end. And in a wonderful way. I might have to watch it again tomorrow, there was just so much to take in. So many wonderful bits from some great people. I was sad to see Howard Zinn had died, I had not realized that. His "A People's History" book was a life changer for me. After reading his book and hearing him say that nothing he's ever seen in his line of work has lead him to believe that humans are "designed" for war and violence was eye-opening to me. After the things he discussed in his book I thought he would have been rather supportive of "Humans are just violent" ideas. I was very pleasantly surprised that that was not the case
Here in London the Seek [sic] community have a SWAT team targeting the terminally starving . . .
. . . that might suit you Victor, plus you get to grow your hair long, wear a turban (optional) and learn some pretty hard core martial arts (if they teach Buddhists) . . .
Cowardly lions beware, those are real weapons the Sikhs are practicing with . . . [lobster faints]
Check CharityNavigator.com...
That way you invest in organization while knowing where the money is going.
It seems that feeling like saviors is big business.
If you look it up online, there are so many organizations that will help you help another - but at a huge cost.
Yet, just donating money is not very motivating or inspiring.
Ideally, there is a way to get involved - like you mentioned, at the grass roots level.
June is World Refugee month - and we're planning to go to a festival - have fun while supporting a good cause.
We have family and friends in a poor country who we regularly help.
A sister of one of our friends worked at an orphanage, where we donated some things.
I was praying how I could help - having saved some money to support education (my passion). And my SIL mentioned how some parents in a school she taught at, didn't have money for school supplies, so she & I went to pick out what they needed and she took it to them.
When we traveled to a poor country, several others helped me make these little spiritual books - in Spanish - with basic scriptures (since most are Catholic). A Buddhist teaching I love is that we should cherish the inspiring aspects of our childhood religion, because that is how we tend to resonate best. I'm not Catholic, but I can see truth in it - and tried to focus those picture books based on that.
Kalripiyat is an ancient form of martial arts and no doubt the Sikh have their own version as do the Singhala.
I have never tried it out though.
Thanks, that was nice.
/Victor
Me neither. Seems wonderful.
Sport, in particular martial arts which is its purest form, is how male aggression is most effectively sublimated and transformed.
Kalripiyat is being taught outside of its religious, gender and national borders. So for example I am sure some women are more openly training their sons in unique female forms that I have seen on YouTube.
There is some evidence that yoga was originally a warrior exercise training system. 'Salutation to the Sun' in particular is similar to Kalaripayattu Martial Art warm ups ...
Many were and some perhaps still are totally unaware of the 'aggressive' applications of Tai Chi Chuan. A form that though derived from Taoism seems increasingly taught in Buddhist settings.
Coming back to religion, some of us will be aware of the lost Olympic Art of Pankration http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
Just too savage to continue in its Pagan form. I believe some martial artists are trying to revive its possible techniques from historic records.
Martial arts is a training in character, discipline and at the highest level 'spirit'. You do not end war by avoiding but by diverting ... well that is my plan
Come on you lions! [oops]
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SarahTTime ... space ... joySouth Coast, UKVeteran
the proportion of people living on less than $1.25 a day — adjusted for inflation — fell from 53 per cent to 14 per cent between 1990 and 2012. It is forecast to fall again to 12 per cent this year, easily beating the target for halving it between 1990 and 2015.
Other highlights cited in the research include a drop of more than two-thirds in the number of children not enrolled in primary school, and a decline from 28 per cent to 7 per cent in the proportion of the population with no access to safe drinking water.
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I'm almost certain there is a more compassionate and awakened society on the rise.
Because of strife and the old way of thinking (us vs. "them") things can look as if they are getting worse when in reality they are no longer easily hidden.
I think the end of world poverty is inevitable.
First I think greed has to become obsolete.
With printers printing out electric bikes, mushrooms and bigger 3D printers, all the new and fascinating theories and applications towards warp drive, the wider spread urge for education and the ease of information sharing, I can see it happening.
Our whole system is built on trying to control our limited resources but there are really unlimited resources if we could figure it out.
If we seriously worked together instead of spending our energy on this silliness then there will be a future where we look back on greed and laugh.
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silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@ourself said "If we seriously worked together instead of spending our energy on this silliness then there will be a future where we look back on greed and laugh. "
I can cheer for that, fer sure...it's just that, my cynical side won't let it last.
Loving kindness and compassion for all beings. Not just whilst sitting on our cushions, but getting out there and doing what we can locally to help others. The way of the Bodhisattva
Where there is a will there is a way.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited July 2015
@Victorious said:
I too believe in a better world. But how do we get there?
Not sure. We probably have to do our best to show that we are already here so change can come in accepted graduation and not look like so much work.
Then again (because of technology) if we tap into the natural abundance all around us there will be no need to fight each other over the resources we thought were so limited.
We may just have to do what we're already doing and wait if we can't afford to do anything monetarily.
Maybe we had to learn how to start respecting the planet we are already on before other options could reveal themselves. It's probably a coincidence that our technology seems to evolve along with our environmental awareness but it makes sense on a few levels.
Did you hear about the Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal is giving his 32 Billion dollar fortune to charity because he was inspired by Bill Gates? He's giving it to disaster relief funds, to help build bridges over cultural differences and misunderstandings and to help empower women.
When I heard that coming from a place like Saudi Arabia where getting lashed for speaking your mind is commonplace, I cheered.
We know what a difference education makes for a single mind and what one person can bring to the table when they are nourished both physically and mentally.
When I was a kid it took months to get a reply from a penpal across the globe and to get other information, we had to look in an encyclopedia. Now the kid does up their velcro shoes and they got mail.
Did you know velcro was invented by a guy walking his dog through burrs?
Famine is caused by not having enough food. It is not caused by there there not being enough food. Economist Amertya Sen won a Nobel Prize for his groundbreaking work identifying the causes of famine. An important part of his research was the identification of the startling fact that there has never been a famine in a functioning democracy. Why? Because in a democracy, governments have to win elections, and they don't win if they fail to put in place and competently administer basic social programs. If you have accountability to the people, you serve the people.
One source (there are many on this topic, and this research; this one is brief and easily readable):
Important as this revelation is, it's not enough. If there is an inequality in where the food is, and a government or other entity redistributes the food to prevent famine, or Bill Gates swoops in and buys a round of Big Macs for the house, this treats the symptom but not the cause; that is, it merely prevents the cataclysmic final event. The cause, of course, is the system that created the inequality in the first place.
In addition to food, this line of thought can be applied to water, money, medical care, internet access, etc. If you let the will of the few prevail over the service of the many (which turns out to be the same thing as letting the greed of the few prevailing over the voice of the many) you will enable a system that has injustice and inequality.
Recently, on the advice of my social security attorney, I had been seeing a psychologist. We didn't hit it off. Our first session was so disruptive that I decided that on my second visit I would keep score. She would ask question and I would try to respond. I opened my mouth to respond to her questions 128 times in a fifty minute session. She interrupted me 117 times. It seems I don't answer questions correctly.
The third session we had went swimmingly. She didn't interrupt me a single time. She commented at the end of our session on how well it had gone and if I could tell her why. So I did.
"I am of Navajo and Italian descent. I self-identify as Native American. We speak in allegory and anecdote, parables and story-telling. I finally realized that in this office I was only allowed to speak like a white man."
She fired me on the spot.
Which is the difficulty, as I see it, with ending poverty (and by extension, war). In order for me to help someone, it is helpful to know what they need - not what I think they need, not what I want them to have or think they should have. One more story...
Perhaps twenty-five years ago, an organization came on to a Native-American reservation in the northern United States. Seeing the deplorable living conditions, they decided to correct the problem. They built all new homes in what was affectionately called the 'ghetto'. One year later, they went back to do a story and ask everyone how the last year had gone living in these nice houses. When they arrived, they were greeted by piles of construction rubble in front of every home.
"What happened?!" they cried. "You ruined the homes we built for you!" An old man finally answered them after they got over being angry and settled into confusion and despair.
"I'm old now. I'm going to die soon. My joy comes from watching my daughter cook for her family in the fine kitchen you built and watching my grandchildren play in their very nice bedrooms you built and my great-grandchildren crawling on the floor in the wonderful living room you built. But I couldn't see them and they couldn't see me. You put up all these walls that were in our way. So we fixed the houses. No need to thank us but to save yourself some money in the future, maybe next time you try to help someone - ask them what help for them is."
The psychologist was right...only two sentences of this post were in answer to the question.
@vinlyn said:> A gang war in L.A. is not much different from the US versus the USSR in Vietnam...except for scale.
Just an interesting factoid. The Bloods and the Crips (the two largest gangs in Los Angeles for those unfamiliar) were begun by united street gangs that were formed by boys who were refused entry into the Boy Scouts because of the color of their skin.
@ourself said:
I think the end of world poverty is inevitable.
I think, the way I understand you to mean the word 'poverty', that you are right. Dictionary definitions to the contrary notwithstanding, poverty indicates a lack of something necessary without the means to achieve or acquire it.
Clean water and nutritious food, adequate housing, clothing, and medicine for all. I agree, this will come. But the vast majority of people will still be living in poverty.
It's not the one who has the most but rather the one who needs the least...
And to the folks in REM sleep, they will want whatever stuff the happiest folks have that they do not. And when they don't get it or get it and still aren't happy, you know whose fault it's going to be. Blame will lead to anger. Anger will lead to hate. Hate will lead to war.
Without dharma, I don't think war ends.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I am so glad you are a 'rubber hits the road', 'down to the nitty-gritty' member of this forum, @yagr.
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited July 2015
@yagr said:
Clean water and nutritious food, adequate housing, clothing, and medicine for all. I agree, this will come. But the vast majority of people will still be living in poverty.
In all honesty, I don't think this will be the case because aside from the important things on that list there would also be the incentive of free education. That's the one that will change everything.
It's not the one who has the most but rather the one who needs the least...
Eventually the system is going to fall if we don't smarten up. That's the blunt truth. All we have to do is look at the price of things as they were 3 decades ago and do the projection of a few decades ahead.
We need to be positive and help guide the future before the greed of a few destroys the potential of all.
And to the folks in REM sleep, they will want whatever stuff the happiest folks have that they do not. And when they don't get it or get it and still aren't happy, you know whose fault it's going to be. Blame will lead to anger. Anger will lead to hate. Hate will lead to war.
Or they could just go back to school and do us all a favour.
It really could be that simple.
Without dharma, I don't think war ends.
I am inclined to agree but then, there is dharma.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited July 2015
@Steve_B said:
Important as this revelation is, it's not enough. If there is an inequality in where the food is, and a government or other entity redistributes the food to prevent famine, or Bill Gates swoops in and buys a round of Big Macs for the house, this treats the symptom but not the cause; that is, it merely prevents the cataclysmic final event. The cause, of course, is the system that created the inequality in the first place.
That isn't what they are doing though. They are not just giving fish thereby creating dependency, they are teaching the art of fishing.
We're talking agricultural development, waterworks and education on a global scale.
Comparing that to buying a round of Big Macs shows a lack of compassion and information, sorry to say.
It may have been a decent assumption a decade and a half ago but it will probably surprise you the amount of good that is going on at the moment.
Gates knows there is no "them" but sadly, some will always put him in the same league as the Donald Trumps of the world.
@ourself said:
In all honesty, I don't think this will be the case because aside from the important things on that list there would also be the incentive of free education. That's the one that will change everything.
I stuck with the four requisites out of simplicity but do you really think education will help that much? You may be right, but I can't see it.
When my father was young, a high school diploma and a work ethic would guarantee you a life-time in a good paying job that will meet your physical needs. Today, a college degree is required to even apply. Oh, and a good credit rating and a clean criminal history and...
There are many home schooled children in the United States, in fact, 3.4% of the fifty-one million K-12 students in this country or approximately two million are home schooled and the number and percentage is growing annually. One of the most prolific lesson plans is ATI (Advanced Training Institute, I believe). Some of their educational lessons include, "semen gives you cancer" and "Immodest women cause rushes of testosterone in men and cause them to irresistibly assault–either sexually or violently–women."
It's vastly different, but little better in inner city schools where surviving the day is the only lesson most students have any interest in learning. Doing well academically can literally be a death sentence, but mostly it just gets the %#$@ kicked out of you on a daily basis.
I referenced a psychologist that I have recently seen in another thread the other day. In our first session she called my idea's on morality (which came directly from the eightfold path - quote/unquote) 'stupid', 'insane', and 'retarded'. She holds a Ph.D.
Which is kind of where my doubts come from. Education doesn't make a person skillful. In fact, it can give someone like the good doctor a way to defend her ignorance from both herself and others.
I hope you're right though.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited July 2015
@yagr said:
Education doesn't make a person skillful. In fact, it can give someone like the good doctor a way to defend her ignorance from both herself and others.
That's the beauty of only paying for the education if we fail or miss too much and putting a cap on how much one person can make. It ensures that only those interested in saving lives will become doctors and greed will not be a factor.
That cap may sound bad but it can be high enough. We need that cap because if there is no top line, there can be no bottom line which means it is ok for some to have nothing while others have it all.
There are many home schooled children in the United States, in fact, 3.4% of the fifty-one million K-12 students in this country or approximately two million are home schooled and the number and percentage is growing annually. One of the most prolific lesson plans is ATI (Advanced Training Institute, I believe). Some of their educational lessons include, "semen gives you cancer" and "Immodest women cause rushes of testosterone in men and cause them to irresistibly assault–either sexually or violently–women."
Yeah but that is not education, that is brain washing.
Education is how to think, not what to think. This is the age of information and so the educated must know how to sort information from misinformation.
Which is kind of where my doubts come from. Education doesn't make a person skillful. In fact, it can give someone like the good doctor a way to defend her ignorance from both herself and others.
A free education would ensure that our eggs are not put all in the same basket and besides... A psychologist? You may as well ask an educated philosopher.
It's all opinion based on past cases and trying to apply universal meaning to subjective ideas, visions and dreams. Just look at the difference between Freud and Jung.
@ourself said:
Just look at the difference between Freud and Jung.
You mean, Freud lived with one woman that he was intimately involved with and Jung lived with two?
I do hope that you're right. You also said, "Education is how to think, not what to think." I do believe that you are correct, I just believe that there are many, many more degrees than there are educated people.
I mean, I just asked a large group of spiritually minded folks where their thoughts came from. I got blank stares and no answers. I did get a smattering of, "Wow, that's a great question!" and a month or more has passed, I see these people at least one a week and no one has volunteered an answer still. In that room were teachers, lawyers, a doctor...highly educated folks. A few have come back and asked me what the answer is though - looking for the answer to be programmed in; after all, there might be a quiz later.
It is my opinion that we are not learning how to think if we can't figure out where these thoughts are coming from - we're just software waiting to be programmed, education or not. While I'll agree wholeheartedly that the example I gave is brainwashing instead of education, 97% of respondents in the United States answered the question, "Who discovered America?" with the same answer they were given in school...despite knowing that twenty million people already lived here. Heck, even Native Americans answer 'Christopher Columbus'.
A recent poll showed that after almost seven years in office, 29% of Americans couldn't name our vice president. 68% can't name their states two senators. 44% can't tell you what the Bill of Rights is and 73% don't know what the Cold War was. I certainly think that there are more important things to know then these things but if people can't be bothered to pay attention to things such as this - I don't think they can be taught that people are more important than money.
You are more hopeful than I; perhaps I shall be proven to be incorrect. That would be pleasant.
I think education is the correct answer to above problems with educated people but not any education at large but dhamma education.
Avijja is a root to unskilfull behavior. But avijja referrs to ignorance of the Dhamma path.
Not arbitrary ignorance.
Because you are educated does not mean the selfillusion is easy to see through. I make this mistake all the time expecting people to see the obvious lack of content in self and acts of the ego and becoming stupefied when they dont...
And as you can understand even if this is a solution to the problem then how the heck to bang som dhamma sense into the heads of Hamas and the Israeli not to mention AQ och IS?
But it might have interesting side effects that also might lead to a more relaxed and war dampening mode in people. After all if people have all they need then why go to war?
But of course it is also the relative sense of it. Does not matter how much you have if you always think you have too little.
Comments
But, wherever he is "from" (whatever "from" means) does not alter my point.
A gang war in L.A. is not much different from the US versus the USSR in Vietnam...except for scale.
A bully group such ISIS is not really much different from a bully kid in junior high...except for scale.
My point is that to change human nature in terms of ending all war, as seen throughout human history, is unfathomable. Cut the goal down. Start small. Make your efforts manageable.
Well, in that case, the IP locator engine I'm using, drastically failed at geography!
Apologies to all for the confusion!
No I do not think we are so far apart at all.
If you look up my ip now you see better where I am from. I sometimes forget to disengage my work ip.
Will do. Thanks.
I think with the internet society rapidly developing people are getting more active and are being able to see and understand better what is going on in the world.
But there is always deception and censure too. But the tools are there if the populous becomes mindful enough.
And I do see the storm of mindfulness courses bombarding the society at all levels.
I even hear that some schools are considering mindfulness in their education. That is fantastic.
/Victor
I think you make an excellent point on why we should pursue world peace. Think about all that misdirected effort and resources put into solving real problems?
Wouldn't that be a bit contra productive? They might shoot me.
Or worse.
Wouldn't it be easier and safer to end that war by eradicating the IS?
I mean if you want it done fast?
/Victor
You work in Helsinki...?
Or worse.
Wouldn't it be easier and safer to end that war by eradicating the IS?
I mean if you want it done fast?
You got my permission!
Sure thang. Now you just lend me control over the collected US forces and I'll have the middle east spic and span for you by end of august.
...And when do you want world peace?
Neither have I. If you get my meaning.
...And when do you want world peace?
When you become realistic?
Alrighty then, October?
I just watched a documentary on Netflix called "I am" and it was quite wonderful. It addresses, in part, the problem you present with what to do about poverty and how much of an impact small changes make across the human spectrum. It's about a rich movie maker looking for answers to life after he almost died, so there is a lot of stuff covered. I thought a lot of it was fitting for the discussion we had here. So if you have Netflix or can find it online otherwise, I highly recommend. There is a lot of discussions about how small things have had huge impacts, and that war is NOT our natural state, despite it having been ongoing for all of humanity. Very good.
I watched "I Am" some time ago and agree, it touched me deeply. Good stuff in that docu, and inspiring, it was to me.
It had been in my watch list for some time, but I had been delaying watching it for such a silly reason-the title! I kept thinking "here I'm trying to get away from that attachment of "I am" so why would I watch this?" Not even remotely related. The title is pretty all encompassing, but where it comes from is explained near the end. And in a wonderful way. I might have to watch it again tomorrow, there was just so much to take in. So many wonderful bits from some great people. I was sad to see Howard Zinn had died, I had not realized that. His "A People's History" book was a life changer for me. After reading his book and hearing him say that nothing he's ever seen in his line of work has lead him to believe that humans are "designed" for war and violence was eye-opening to me. After the things he discussed in his book I thought he would have been rather supportive of "Humans are just violent" ideas. I was very pleasantly surprised that that was not the case
Here in London the Seek [sic] community have a SWAT team targeting the terminally starving . . .
. . . that might suit you Victor, plus you get to grow your hair long, wear a turban (optional) and learn some pretty hard core martial arts (if they teach Buddhists) . . .
Cowardly lions beware, those are real weapons the Sikhs are practicing with . . . [lobster faints]
Cowardly Lions? Pah.
Beware such insults little lobster when you are, most probably unknowingly, speaking to a Lion.
.
I am after all Singhala AND surnamed Lion.
. Envious? Yeeeaaah baby.
Incidentally a while in my youth I looked much like that and I have a young cousin that has adopted the look...
Kalripiyat is an ancient form of martial arts and no doubt the Sikh have their own version as do the Singhala.
I have never tried it out though.
Thanks, that was nice.
/Victor
Check CharityNavigator.com...
That way you invest in organization while knowing where the money is going.
It seems that feeling like saviors is big business.
If you look it up online, there are so many organizations that will help you help another - but at a huge cost.
Yet, just donating money is not very motivating or inspiring.
Ideally, there is a way to get involved - like you mentioned, at the grass roots level.
June is World Refugee month - and we're planning to go to a festival - have fun while supporting a good cause.
We have family and friends in a poor country who we regularly help.
A sister of one of our friends worked at an orphanage, where we donated some things.
I was praying how I could help - having saved some money to support education (my passion). And my SIL mentioned how some parents in a school she taught at, didn't have money for school supplies, so she & I went to pick out what they needed and she took it to them.
When we traveled to a poor country, several others helped me make these little spiritual books - in Spanish - with basic scriptures (since most are Catholic). A Buddhist teaching I love is that we should cherish the inspiring aspects of our childhood religion, because that is how we tend to resonate best. I'm not Catholic, but I can see truth in it - and tried to focus those picture books based on that.
Me neither. Seems wonderful.
Sport, in particular martial arts which is its purest form, is how male aggression is most effectively sublimated and transformed.
Kalripiyat is being taught outside of its religious, gender and national borders. So for example I am sure some women are more openly training their sons in unique female forms that I have seen on YouTube.
There is some evidence that yoga was originally a warrior exercise training system. 'Salutation to the Sun' in particular is similar to Kalaripayattu Martial Art warm ups ...
Many were and some perhaps still are totally unaware of the 'aggressive' applications of Tai Chi Chuan. A form that though derived from Taoism seems increasingly taught in Buddhist settings.
Coming back to religion, some of us will be aware of the lost Olympic Art of Pankration
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
Just too savage to continue in its Pagan form. I believe some martial artists are trying to revive its possible techniques from historic records.
Martial arts is a training in character, discipline and at the highest level 'spirit'. You do not end war by avoiding but by diverting ... well that is my plan
Come on you lions! [oops]
Actually some good news in my paper this week:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/556b6ae2-04fc-11e5-9627-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3bc3PzyO0
I feel there are many. For example the 'open source everything' movement described here:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/19/open-source-revolution-conquer-one-percent-cia-spy
very very interesting...Thanks.
Because of strife and the old way of thinking (us vs. "them") things can look as if they are getting worse when in reality they are no longer easily hidden.
I think the end of world poverty is inevitable.
First I think greed has to become obsolete.
With printers printing out electric bikes, mushrooms and bigger 3D printers, all the new and fascinating theories and applications towards warp drive, the wider spread urge for education and the ease of information sharing, I can see it happening.
Our whole system is built on trying to control our limited resources but there are really unlimited resources if we could figure it out.
If we seriously worked together instead of spending our energy on this silliness then there will be a future where we look back on greed and laugh.
@ourself said "If we seriously worked together instead of spending our energy on this silliness then there will be a future where we look back on greed and laugh. "
I can cheer for that, fer sure...it's just that, my cynical side won't let it last.
I too believe in a better world. But how do we get there?
Loving kindness and compassion for all beings. Not just whilst sitting on our cushions, but getting out there and doing what we can locally to help others. The way of the Bodhisattva
Where there is a will there is a way.
Not sure. We probably have to do our best to show that we are already here so change can come in accepted graduation and not look like so much work.
Then again (because of technology) if we tap into the natural abundance all around us there will be no need to fight each other over the resources we thought were so limited.
We may just have to do what we're already doing and wait if we can't afford to do anything monetarily.
Maybe we had to learn how to start respecting the planet we are already on before other options could reveal themselves. It's probably a coincidence that our technology seems to evolve along with our environmental awareness but it makes sense on a few levels.
Did you hear about the Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal is giving his 32 Billion dollar fortune to charity because he was inspired by Bill Gates? He's giving it to disaster relief funds, to help build bridges over cultural differences and misunderstandings and to help empower women.
When I heard that coming from a place like Saudi Arabia where getting lashed for speaking your mind is commonplace, I cheered.
We know what a difference education makes for a single mind and what one person can bring to the table when they are nourished both physically and mentally.
When I was a kid it took months to get a reply from a penpal across the globe and to get other information, we had to look in an encyclopedia. Now the kid does up their velcro shoes and they got mail.
Did you know velcro was invented by a guy walking his dog through burrs?
Famine is caused by not having enough food. It is not caused by there there not being enough food. Economist Amertya Sen won a Nobel Prize for his groundbreaking work identifying the causes of famine. An important part of his research was the identification of the startling fact that there has never been a famine in a functioning democracy. Why? Because in a democracy, governments have to win elections, and they don't win if they fail to put in place and competently administer basic social programs. If you have accountability to the people, you serve the people.
One source (there are many on this topic, and this research; this one is brief and easily readable):
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/01/arts/does-democracy-avert-famine.html
Important as this revelation is, it's not enough. If there is an inequality in where the food is, and a government or other entity redistributes the food to prevent famine, or Bill Gates swoops in and buys a round of Big Macs for the house, this treats the symptom but not the cause; that is, it merely prevents the cataclysmic final event. The cause, of course, is the system that created the inequality in the first place.
In addition to food, this line of thought can be applied to water, money, medical care, internet access, etc. If you let the will of the few prevail over the service of the many (which turns out to be the same thing as letting the greed of the few prevailing over the voice of the many) you will enable a system that has injustice and inequality.
Recently, on the advice of my social security attorney, I had been seeing a psychologist. We didn't hit it off. Our first session was so disruptive that I decided that on my second visit I would keep score. She would ask question and I would try to respond. I opened my mouth to respond to her questions 128 times in a fifty minute session. She interrupted me 117 times. It seems I don't answer questions correctly.
The third session we had went swimmingly. She didn't interrupt me a single time. She commented at the end of our session on how well it had gone and if I could tell her why. So I did.
"I am of Navajo and Italian descent. I self-identify as Native American. We speak in allegory and anecdote, parables and story-telling. I finally realized that in this office I was only allowed to speak like a white man."
She fired me on the spot.
Which is the difficulty, as I see it, with ending poverty (and by extension, war). In order for me to help someone, it is helpful to know what they need - not what I think they need, not what I want them to have or think they should have. One more story...
Perhaps twenty-five years ago, an organization came on to a Native-American reservation in the northern United States. Seeing the deplorable living conditions, they decided to correct the problem. They built all new homes in what was affectionately called the 'ghetto'. One year later, they went back to do a story and ask everyone how the last year had gone living in these nice houses. When they arrived, they were greeted by piles of construction rubble in front of every home.
"What happened?!" they cried. "You ruined the homes we built for you!" An old man finally answered them after they got over being angry and settled into confusion and despair.
"I'm old now. I'm going to die soon. My joy comes from watching my daughter cook for her family in the fine kitchen you built and watching my grandchildren play in their very nice bedrooms you built and my great-grandchildren crawling on the floor in the wonderful living room you built. But I couldn't see them and they couldn't see me. You put up all these walls that were in our way. So we fixed the houses. No need to thank us but to save yourself some money in the future, maybe next time you try to help someone - ask them what help for them is."
The psychologist was right...only two sentences of this post were in answer to the question.
Just an interesting factoid. The Bloods and the Crips (the two largest gangs in Los Angeles for those unfamiliar) were begun by united street gangs that were formed by boys who were refused entry into the Boy Scouts because of the color of their skin.
I think, the way I understand you to mean the word 'poverty', that you are right. Dictionary definitions to the contrary notwithstanding, poverty indicates a lack of something necessary without the means to achieve or acquire it.
Clean water and nutritious food, adequate housing, clothing, and medicine for all. I agree, this will come. But the vast majority of people will still be living in poverty.
It's not the one who has the most but rather the one who needs the least...
And to the folks in REM sleep, they will want whatever stuff the happiest folks have that they do not. And when they don't get it or get it and still aren't happy, you know whose fault it's going to be. Blame will lead to anger. Anger will lead to hate. Hate will lead to war.
Without dharma, I don't think war ends.
I am so glad you are a 'rubber hits the road', 'down to the nitty-gritty' member of this forum, @yagr.
I love you, @Federica. Yep.
In all honesty, I don't think this will be the case because aside from the important things on that list there would also be the incentive of free education. That's the one that will change everything.
Eventually the system is going to fall if we don't smarten up. That's the blunt truth. All we have to do is look at the price of things as they were 3 decades ago and do the projection of a few decades ahead.
We need to be positive and help guide the future before the greed of a few destroys the potential of all.
Or they could just go back to school and do us all a favour.
It really could be that simple.
I am inclined to agree but then, there is dharma.
That isn't what they are doing though. They are not just giving fish thereby creating dependency, they are teaching the art of fishing.
We're talking agricultural development, waterworks and education on a global scale.
Comparing that to buying a round of Big Macs shows a lack of compassion and information, sorry to say.
It may have been a decent assumption a decade and a half ago but it will probably surprise you the amount of good that is going on at the moment.
Gates knows there is no "them" but sadly, some will always put him in the same league as the Donald Trumps of the world.
I stuck with the four requisites out of simplicity but do you really think education will help that much? You may be right, but I can't see it.
When my father was young, a high school diploma and a work ethic would guarantee you a life-time in a good paying job that will meet your physical needs. Today, a college degree is required to even apply. Oh, and a good credit rating and a clean criminal history and...
There are many home schooled children in the United States, in fact, 3.4% of the fifty-one million K-12 students in this country or approximately two million are home schooled and the number and percentage is growing annually. One of the most prolific lesson plans is ATI (Advanced Training Institute, I believe). Some of their educational lessons include, "semen gives you cancer" and "Immodest women cause rushes of testosterone in men and cause them to irresistibly assault–either sexually or violently–women."
It's vastly different, but little better in inner city schools where surviving the day is the only lesson most students have any interest in learning. Doing well academically can literally be a death sentence, but mostly it just gets the %#$@ kicked out of you on a daily basis.
I referenced a psychologist that I have recently seen in another thread the other day. In our first session she called my idea's on morality (which came directly from the eightfold path - quote/unquote) 'stupid', 'insane', and 'retarded'. She holds a Ph.D.
Which is kind of where my doubts come from. Education doesn't make a person skillful. In fact, it can give someone like the good doctor a way to defend her ignorance from both herself and others.
I hope you're right though.
That's the beauty of only paying for the education if we fail or miss too much and putting a cap on how much one person can make. It ensures that only those interested in saving lives will become doctors and greed will not be a factor.
That cap may sound bad but it can be high enough. We need that cap because if there is no top line, there can be no bottom line which means it is ok for some to have nothing while others have it all.
Yeah but that is not education, that is brain washing.
Education is how to think, not what to think. This is the age of information and so the educated must know how to sort information from misinformation.
A free education would ensure that our eggs are not put all in the same basket and besides... A psychologist? You may as well ask an educated philosopher.
It's all opinion based on past cases and trying to apply universal meaning to subjective ideas, visions and dreams. Just look at the difference between Freud and Jung.
You mean, Freud lived with one woman that he was intimately involved with and Jung lived with two?
I do hope that you're right. You also said, "Education is how to think, not what to think." I do believe that you are correct, I just believe that there are many, many more degrees than there are educated people.
I mean, I just asked a large group of spiritually minded folks where their thoughts came from. I got blank stares and no answers. I did get a smattering of, "Wow, that's a great question!" and a month or more has passed, I see these people at least one a week and no one has volunteered an answer still. In that room were teachers, lawyers, a doctor...highly educated folks. A few have come back and asked me what the answer is though - looking for the answer to be programmed in; after all, there might be a quiz later.
It is my opinion that we are not learning how to think if we can't figure out where these thoughts are coming from - we're just software waiting to be programmed, education or not. While I'll agree wholeheartedly that the example I gave is brainwashing instead of education, 97% of respondents in the United States answered the question, "Who discovered America?" with the same answer they were given in school...despite knowing that twenty million people already lived here. Heck, even Native Americans answer 'Christopher Columbus'.
A recent poll showed that after almost seven years in office, 29% of Americans couldn't name our vice president. 68% can't name their states two senators. 44% can't tell you what the Bill of Rights is and 73% don't know what the Cold War was. I certainly think that there are more important things to know then these things but if people can't be bothered to pay attention to things such as this - I don't think they can be taught that people are more important than money.
You are more hopeful than I; perhaps I shall be proven to be incorrect. That would be pleasant.
I think education is the correct answer to above problems with educated people but not any education at large but dhamma education.
Avijja is a root to unskilfull behavior. But avijja referrs to ignorance of the Dhamma path.
Not arbitrary ignorance.
Because you are educated does not mean the selfillusion is easy to see through. I make this mistake all the time expecting people to see the obvious lack of content in self and acts of the ego and becoming stupefied when they dont...
And as you can understand even if this is a solution to the problem then how the heck to bang som dhamma sense into the heads of Hamas and the Israeli not to mention AQ och IS?
It is a long road.
Yes, and knowledge is not necessarily wisdom. It's one thing to understand nuclear physics, it's quite another to use that knowledge skillfully.
This too is an interesting experiment as a means to end poverty.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-city-of-utrecht-to-experiment-with-a-universal-unconditional-income-10345595.html
But it might have interesting side effects that also might lead to a more relaxed and war dampening mode in people. After all if people have all they need then why go to war?
But of course it is also the relative sense of it. Does not matter how much you have if you always think you have too little.
/Victor