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If Karma is real why do horrific things happen to good people?
I am curious what the benefit of debating the nature of kamma is.
My apologies, the quote feature does not work on my phone.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
For some it gives notions and ideas they may not have hitherto considered. For others, it is a way of establishing their own thoughts, which might have previously been meandering.
Feel free to join in if you wish, but if not, then just sit back, read, mark, and digest.
Yes, Federica makes a good point. These discussions help clarify our own beliefs about karma. But, also, such examinations are an intrinsic part of human nature. And, my view of karma has changed significantly over time due to discussions here.
In addition to what @vinlyn said, you realize that in some traditions, monks and nuns debate as part of their training? It's fascinating to watch them do so, there are some videos on youtube. Discussion and debate are encouraged in the sangha I belong to. What might be the benefit of not debating it? It runs through all of Buddhism, it's pretty hard to just leave it out entirely.
sweet I have a retort to 'there are no atheists in a fox hole'. I can say 'even Christ thought God had forsaken him somewhat (at least he exclaimed that). Never thought of that.
As long as there’s the view that a real self is the
owner, perpetrator and inheritor of kamma, that view supports
patterns of feeling good or bad about it, and of doing some-
thing about it. When that view is relinquished, there is peace,
because there’s nothing to do. But it’s not that there’s the
view of being a self who is independent of kamma, or the
view that there’s no such thing as kamma. In the domain
of kamma, of cause and effect, then skills around kamma
have to be exercised, and in fact are necessary to come
out of tangling in the aggregates. Then kamma can cease
in the Deathless.
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
I would love to have a globe that said 'here be dragons' on it.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Reminds me of the title of the book I just got this morning by Thich Nhat Hanh.
I look at Karma from a very scientific point of view, Karma is a reaction to your action, although she's doing good, however being a bad place doing good doesn't mean she's not in danger of getting hurt,
just like running in to a burning house trying to save someone that a good karma, however there's a possibility that you might get hurt.
5
HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
edited February 2015
@Nichy said:
I look at Karma from a very scientific point of view, Karma is a reaction to your action, although she's doing good, however being a bad place doing good doesn't mean she's not in danger of getting hurt,
just like running in to a burning house trying to save someone that a good karma, however there's a possibility that you might get hurt.
That was my much less well articulated point in my first post on this thread. How could 'karma' be 'separated' from the context in which she was murdered? As if the wrongness of her death (because of her deep essential goodness) was not a direct result of where she was. It can't be separated without the question becoming absurd.
@Hamsaka said:
I would love to have a globe that said 'here be dragons' on it.
I'd love that too... especially on a t-shirt!
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Maybe some people share their karma.
Without bringing in fate or a Planner and just sticking with karma as both causation and negative/positive flow.
Maybe a compassionate person suffering shows the positive by being a lesson and bringing others closer.
Comments
My apologies, the quote feature does not work on my phone.
For some it gives notions and ideas they may not have hitherto considered. For others, it is a way of establishing their own thoughts, which might have previously been meandering.
Feel free to join in if you wish, but if not, then just sit back, read, mark, and digest.
Yes, Federica makes a good point. These discussions help clarify our own beliefs about karma. But, also, such examinations are an intrinsic part of human nature. And, my view of karma has changed significantly over time due to discussions here.
@Amthorn it is a discussion board, after all
Debate and discussion is what happens here, for the most part.
And, how many books (or parts of books) have been written -- including by monks -- about a topic that is supposedly not supposed to be pondered?
In addition to what @vinlyn said, you realize that in some traditions, monks and nuns debate as part of their training? It's fascinating to watch them do so, there are some videos on youtube. Discussion and debate are encouraged in the sangha I belong to. What might be the benefit of not debating it? It runs through all of Buddhism, it's pretty hard to just leave it out entirely.
sweet I have a retort to 'there are no atheists in a fox hole'. I can say 'even Christ thought God had forsaken him somewhat (at least he exclaimed that). Never thought of that.
@vinlyn I wouldn't be mad if it is me
I believe a lot of things.
As long as there’s the view that a real self is the
owner, perpetrator and inheritor of kamma, that view supports
patterns of feeling good or bad about it, and of doing some-
thing about it. When that view is relinquished, there is peace,
because there’s nothing to do. But it’s not that there’s the
view of being a self who is independent of kamma, or the
view that there’s no such thing as kamma. In the domain
of kamma, of cause and effect, then skills around kamma
have to be exercised, and in fact are necessary to come
out of tangling in the aggregates. Then kamma can cease
in the Deathless.
Kamma and End of Kamma
Ajahn Sucitto P 151
http://forestsanghapublications.org/assets/book/Kamma_and_the_end_of_kamma_-_Ajahn_Sucitto.pdf
I can get my Mel Brooks on at last
youtu.be/LnF1OtP2Svk
Jeez the person/s who get my life must have really pissed off the karma gods
Or astounded them with their bravery, resilience and stoic good humour....
Exactly what I wonder sometimes. Since none of us here are privy to full understanding of karma and DO, is sickness or even death 'bad' karma, at all?
Sure the hell seems like it!!
. . . here be dragons . . .
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons
I would love to have a globe that said 'here be dragons' on it.
No Mud, No Lotus
I look at Karma from a very scientific point of view, Karma is a reaction to your action, although she's doing good, however being a bad place doing good doesn't mean she's not in danger of getting hurt,
just like running in to a burning house trying to save someone that a good karma, however there's a possibility that you might get hurt.
That was my much less well articulated point in my first post on this thread. How could 'karma' be 'separated' from the context in which she was murdered? As if the wrongness of her death (because of her deep essential goodness) was not a direct result of where she was. It can't be separated without the question becoming absurd.
Indeed. Unfortunately baby dragons in other dimensions are not allowed to provide four dimensional globes to the human realm. Sorry.
I'd love that too... especially on a t-shirt!
Without bringing in fate or a Planner and just sticking with karma as both causation and negative/positive flow.
Maybe a compassionate person suffering shows the positive by being a lesson and bringing others closer.
I'm not sure if I worded that right.
This thought occurred to me while pondering this thread. Feel free to tear it down if it's wrong.
Buddhism does not attempt to explain why life isn't fair. It tells us how to alleviate suffering.
I think the First Noble Truth means that suffering is inevitable unless you are enlightened.