Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Image & file uploads are now fixed. Thanks for your patience.
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Clarity

One of the reasons so many of us value and practice meditation and mindfulness is because it clarifies things for us.

Here I sit with my scalp itch, mind meandering, feelings of Dukkha etc.

We don't run, we don't hide beind the lamas sofa, we don't get uppity, we face it. Clarity arrives. Clarity of body, mind and emotions. That is my experience and no doubt many, many can confirm?

Is clarity part of your clearing?

BunksJeffreyTheswingisyellowNamadadantepwrohit

Comments

  • That was a reminder for me to go out. The sun is shining now. I'll leave the computer and far too many words and thoughts inside of my shaded home. It's easier to clarify my mind outdoors.

    dantepwrohit
  • Yes, I always find a nice walk by the sea helps. Spaciousness and movement!

    lobster
  • NamadaNamada Veteran

    Clarity its important, jumping out of the river and just watch it passing by, and take a walk to clearify your mind helps.

    lobsterKundo
  • PöljäPöljä Veteran
    edited March 2015

    Watching a river's flow is a good way to meditate. I sweep floors of my home almost every day. It's an easier way to clarify my mind than to sit still. Walking slowly and concentrating on the brush and listening its soft sound when it's sweeping the floor. And when I get confused (like after reading about rebirth) I start to sweep again.

    Kundo
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran

    It's what I love about the practice and the path; life it's all right in front of one, no need for abstractions and self created worlds. Facing and seeing life for what it is.

    "Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.than.html

  • @lobster said:

    One of the reasons so many of us value and practice meditation and mindfulness is because it clarifies things for us.

    Here I sit with my scalp itch, mind meandering, feelings of Dukkha etc.

    We don't run, we don't hide beind the lamas sofa, we don't get uppity, we face it. Clarity arrives. Clarity of body, mind and emotions. That is my experience and no doubt many, many can confirm?

    Is clarity part of your clearing?

    Lets be clear about one thing. All that arises, passes and should not be taken as me or mine.

    JeffreyBuddhadragonboobysattva
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 2015

    what is me or mine? is my buttox on the floor me or mine? is my idea of frustration me or mine?

  • @pegembara said:
    Lets be clear about one thing. All that arises, passes and should not be taken as me or mine.

    Is the above clear? Just dharma cliches?

    You think? How is that not working out for you? The body arises, I have one, you don't? I have a mind, you don't? No point in asking you of all people to clarify?

    Guess what . . . nothing said? o:)

  • I would say yes that they are. what then?

  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @Jeffrey said:
    what is me or mine? is my buttox on the floor me or mine? is my idea of frustration me or mine?

    Or a thought "What the heck am I doing sitting here like a dummy?" or "what the heck is he/she going on about?" arises. There are 2 choices

    1. To pick up that train of thought and run wild with it or
    2. To leave that thought alone and let it fade away.

    The first leads to dukkha
    The second leads to cessation

    What will it be? Clarity or confusion?

    JeffreylobsterBuddhadragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @Pöljä said:
    Watching a river's flow is a good way to meditate. I sweep floors of my home almost every day. It's an easier way to clarify my mind than to sit still. Walking slowly and concentrating on the brush and listening its soft sound when it's sweeping the floor. And when I get confused (like after reading about rebirth) I start to sweep again.

    <3

    I once met a desert mystic and sweeping away the thoughts was the whole of his practice . . . Clean floor. Clean mind. Endless desert.

    PöljäTheswingisyellow
  • Will_BakerWill_Baker Vermont Veteran

    It seems to me clarity is a funny thing. One can attach to it when it manifests itself. We can seek it, but if we search for it, the act voids the goal. My take is effective practice conditions clarity; easy to write yet takes life times to accomplish...

    lobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @pegembara said:> What will it be? Clarity or confusion?

    Not thinking doesn't lead to clarity. Clear thinking leads to clarity.

    Jeffrey
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "Is clarity part of your clearing?"

    If you mean the key to letting go yes...

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    (Do you not know how to use the quotes facility, @Shoshin? :confused: )

  • @SpinyNorman but ignoring confused thinking leaves room to see the qualities of mind including the clarity that is always there. a lot more to it than i understand or that can be explained in 2 sentences!

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Yes I do and thank you for your concern....

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    No problem. That's what I'm here for! :)

  • howhow Veteran

    Clarity is as unlimited as we allow all of our sense data to be.
    "Thinking" or "not thinking" are just bit players in this stage.

    lobster
  • Thanks guys.

    You have explained in different ways what is clearly different clearings.

    Muddled, attached, cliched, even overly logical or ultra-spiritual thinking can be clearly exposed.

    =)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @lobster said:
    Thanks guys.

    You have explained in different ways what is clearly different clearings.

    Muddled, attached, cliched, even overly logical or ultra-spiritual thinking can be clearly exposed.

    =)

    Whatever floats ones raft @lobster

  • @Shoshin said:
    If you mean the key to letting go yes...

    I did not mean that. Just to be clear.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Thank you for clarifying that @lobster

    I was under the impression once one clearly understood the situation "obtaining clarity" one would feel less attached to it, hence the letting go part...But I guess this was not what you meant....

    "Nothing whatsoever should be clung to !" "Sabbe Dhamma Nalam Abhinivesaya!"

    lobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @how said:> Clarity is as unlimited as we allow all of our sense data to be.
    "Thinking" or "not thinking" are just bit players in this stage.

    But with a clear mind there will be clear thinking. The point of practice is not to stop thinking but to recognise what our thoughts mean.

  • @SpinyNorman said:
    But with a clear mind there will be clear thinking. The point of practice is not to stop thinking but to recognise what our thoughts mean.

    That is interesting. Most thoughts do not mean anything. Most of them are falafel. Most of them can be abandoned as cleverness, conflicted emotions, fantasies, judgements, interpretations based on goals, memories or other impediments etc.

    We do not stop thinking how to cross the road, do our job, duties, chores etc but we do discern what is fluffy thinking and what is 'meaningful'. Though perhaps I would use the term 'useful', 'skilful' and ultimately 'empty'.

    This emptiness is also 'suchness' or 'just being' or 'love' in other systems. It is perfect, eternal being, unborn etc. We can not really call it clear thinking as it does not process itself, rather we become aware or transparent to its presence. B)

    Jeffrey
  • @lobster said:> This emptiness is also 'suchness' or 'just being' or 'love' in other systems. It is perfect, eternal being, unborn etc. We can not really call it clear thinking as it does not process itself, rather we become aware or transparent to its presence. B)

    I think that there is a stage of separating out the wheat from the chaff, perhaps the skillful from the unskillful. Or at least recognising the difference.

  • howhow Veteran

    @SpinyNorman said:
    But with a clear mind there will be clear thinking.

    @SpinyNorman

    Oh, if only focus & concentration was not so often mistaken for clarity!

    The trickiest attachment for a meditator to free themselves from, is from any mentality that they identify as meditative.
    Focus and concentration, because it offers tangible evidence of something substantial within a meditative operating arena that is nebulous by nature, often becomes the mentality of choice.
    Such a mind practice, although powerful, offers no guarantee of clarity as long as it remains bound to it's identity.
    It is not so much "with a clear mind there will be clear thinking" but "with an unbound mind there can be transcendent thinking".

    ....and even here we are still only addressing of one sense gate out of six.

    lobster
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    I love just walking and staying present, watching life unfold. Not forced , not controlling.
    Just letting life be. Watching thoughts come and go, watching birds come and go, watching cars come and go. They are all equal in this state.

    The best feeling is when you realise you don't have to do anything.
    lobsterJeffreypegembara
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @how said:It is not so much "with a clear mind there will be clear thinking" but "with an unbound mind there can be transcendent thinking". ....and even here we are still only addressing of one sense gate out of six.

    So how would you describe the practical difference between "clear thinking" and "transcendent thinking"?
    I get the point about sense gates, but would suggest that it's often our confused ( deluded? ) thinking that gets in the way of directly experiencing our experience. Too much conceiving about stuff, not enough knowing it directly.

  • howhow Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @SpinyNorman said:

    So how would you describe the practical difference between "clear thinking" and "transcendent thinking"?

    @SpinyNorman

    A fair question! That they are the same or different, rests with the observer.

    This is not about saying one is better than another. It is about
    **being willing to challenge our spiritual attachments **as ardently as we usually do for our worldly ones.

    From a practical (self testable) experiential level .......

    Transcendent thinking has no need to be anything other than transcendent

    where as if

    clear thinking is dependent on it's own need to be clear....is it really transcendent?

    The more interesting exploration is of what thought can be independent of identity and what thought is not.

    lobster
  • Could you explain a bit or give links of what you mean by transcendent @how?

  • howhow Veteran

    @Jeffrey said:
    Could you explain a bit or give links of what you mean by transcendent how?

    @Jeffrey

    What I called transcendent, I more often call selflessness

    Sometimes referred to as the
    unborn,
    unoriginated,
    uncreated
    unformed.

    JeffreybookwormShoshinlobster
  • @how is talking I feel of quite a high transparency.

    With increasing non attachment even to Buddha qualities in place, we allow rather than obstruct, accept rather than contain.

    Even if we drop the crystal Buddha and it shatters, more light gets through . . .

    Pöljä
  • "To know" is another window blind.

  • @lobster i also welcome the clarity which comes from meditating. i dont follow insight meditation though. only stillness of the body. and for some reason it rids me of torpor.
    lobster
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    One time on a sunny but windy day while waiting for my bus I was mindfully watching a traffic stop light pole bouncing up and down in the wind, and there was maybe a few moments of clarity, everything made perfect sense to me, I felt like I understood something profound, I think back to that day on occasion and I still don't know exactly what it was that I discovered or understood, but I do know that it was right there, as clear as day.

    rohitlobsterboobysattva
  • @bookworm do you think it was just a feeling but brought out very intensely? like you have a good feeling occasionally but this was just especially nice?

  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @Jeffrey said:
    bookworm do you think it was just a feeling but brought out very intensely? like you have a good feeling occasionally but this was just especially nice?

    Well i'll start from the beginning, I wanted to see a movie, and I took the bus to the theater, and I very much enjoyed the movie, the movie was called pacific rim, it is about robots and aliens, and after it was over I walked to a bus stop waiting for the bus, and I do remember I was thinking about how cool the movie was, and after maybe 35 minutes or more of waiting for the bus I was getting bored, I put my attention on a traffic stop light I was being mindful, but I wasn't trying to be mindful, I was just waiting for the bus and watching the stop light pole bounce up and down, by that time I forgot about the movie, and then 10 seconds later or less there was clarity.

    boobysattva
  • @bookworm sounds like a cool experience.

    lobsterbookworm
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @bookworm said:
    One time on a sunny but windy day while waiting for my bus I was mindfully watching a traffic stop light pole bouncing up and down in the wind, and there was maybe a few moments of clarity, everything made perfect sense to me, I felt like I understood something profound, I think back to that day on occasion and I still don't know exactly what it was that I discovered or understood, but I do know that it was right there, as clear as day.

    I know what you are describing I think. I used to think of it as the experience of being here now. Ram Dass made the expression popular around that time. Now I would think of it as the experience, or realization of suchness.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathatā

    that link won't work properly so this is taken from the page at wiki.

    Tathatā (Sanskrit, Pali तथता tathatā; Chinese: 真如) is variously translated as "thusness" or "suchness". It is a central concept in Buddhism, and is of particular significance in Zen Buddhism. The synonym dharmatā is also often used.

    While alive the Buddha referred to himself as Tathagata, which can mean either "One who has thus come" or "One who has thus gone",[1] and interpreted correctly can be read as "One who has arrived at suchness". Tathatā as a central concept of Buddhism expresses appreciation of the ten suchnesses in any given moment.[citation needed] As no moment is exactly the same, each one can be savored for what occurs at that precise time, whether it is thought of as being "good" or "bad".

    In the early texts, it is described as an aspect of nibbānā.[2]

    In Ch'an stories, Tathatā is often best revealed in the seemingly mundane or meaningless, such as noticing the way the wind blows through a field of grass, or watching someone's face light up as they smile. According to Ch'an hagiography, Shakyamuni Buddha transmitted the awareness of Tathata directly to Mahakasyapa in what has come to be rendered in English as the Flower Sermon. In another story, Shakyamuni asked his disciples "How long is a human life?" As none of them could offer the correct answer he told them "Life is but a breath".[3] Here we can see the Buddha expressing the impermanent nature of the world, where each individual moment is different from the last. Molloy[4] states, "We know we are experiencing the 'thatness' of reality when we experience something and say to ourselves, 'Yes, that's it; that is the way things are.' In the moment, we recognize that reality is wondrously beautiful but also that its patterns are fragile and passing."

    The Ch'an master Thich Nhat Hanh wrote "People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don't even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child--our own two eyes. All is a miracle." [5]

    Mahayana BuddhismEdit

    The term Tathatā in the East Asian Mahayana tradition is seen as representing the base reality and can be used to terminate the use of words. A 5th-century Chinese Mahayana scripture entitled "Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana" describes the concept more fully: "In its very origin suchness is of itself endowed with sublime attributes. It manifests the highest wisdom which shines throughout the world, it has true knowledge and a mind resting simply in its own being. It is eternal, blissful, its own self-being and the purest simplicity; it is invigorating, immutable, free... Because it possesses all these attributes and is deprived of nothing, it is designated both as the Womb of Tathagata and the Dharma Body of Tathagata."[6][1]

    Jeffreybookwormboobysattvalobster
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @Jeffrey said:
    bookworm sounds like a cool experience.

    Thanks, it was probably something, or it could have been nothing at all.

  • howhow Veteran
    edited March 2015

    Safest to see them as both while accepting that this present unfolding moment trumps either.

    bookworm
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @how said:
    Safest to see them as both but accept that little can actually compare to what now comprises this moment.

    Your absolutely right, and I agree.

    lobster
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    My whole working life, I had to sit most of the time...8 - hours - the older I got, the more I was forced (yes forced) to sit. Now that I'm retired and have discovered this wonderful Buddha man, I'm encouraged to sit on it - and by George, I'm gonna sit because I (yes I) want to! (well, I lie (lie down) not sit, but you get the picture).
    :awesome:

    lobsterBuddhadragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited March 2015

    @silver said:
    and by George, I'm gonna sit because I (yes I) want to!

    Hi Ho Silver!
    Bodhi Lone Ranger

    silver
  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    "Thoughts become clear in a still mind, like the reflection of the moon on a calm pond.
    Clarity comes during stillness. Practice stillness to know inner truth."

    (Nagarjuna, "Tree of Wisdom" - Dennis Waller translation)

    lobster
  • @how said:

    Oh, if only focus & concentration was not so often mistaken for clarity!

    The trickiest attachment for a meditator to free themselves from, is from any mentality that they identify as meditative.

    B)

    Ain't it always so.

    I once met a teacher, apparently renowned, who had gone to the Himalayas to meditate in a cave. Clearly must be a serious seeker rather than an ill prepared buffoon, one might superficially conclude? After some years of growing a beard he came into the nearest town, met a reasonably credible 'teacher' and began to travel a different path. Still he was little more than a well meaning student. [lobster gets karma and credibility points deducted for being judgemental]

    Effort and experience is not the same as right effort.

    Do not think you are far away or near. Rather learn to be.

    Have cushion. Will meditate for 'no-reason'.

    Decisions, decisions . . .

Sign In or Register to comment.