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I am the one who analyzes things to death. I envy the ability of my husband to not spending any amount of time pondering things that don't have an answer. He is like a worker bee, he just keeps going and these types of questions don't keep him up at night. They keep me up, sometimes. When I think about them, I eventually arrive at a very surreal feeling of not even being sure I'm still in my body or on the earth, and then I have to shake my head like our dog when she gets out of the water, and carry on with what's before me.
I'm not sure why some of us like to noodle over such topics to such great extent. It doesn't seem to help us solve any "real life" problems that we need to deal with. I think there is an inner answer we each arrive at that changes at various points in life. I think we like to share what our answer is to compare with others and see if it's feasible, or if we're a little crazy, lol. On one hand, we want to know others might arrive at the same answers. But often on the other hand, we think we've made some amazing discovery and we want to share it to determine if maybe we are the only one who has thought of it.
For me, the start of life is both the most complex and the simplest answer at the same time and because it cannot easily be broken down (yet) into segments we can understand separately and put together as a big puzzle, we can sense it but not quite grasp it. A hunch, as someone else put it that has no words for us to truly explain what our sens is about it. For me, that is how it is anyhow.
How did everything start? Who pushed the start button for this universe, and this life?
According to the Buddha, to qualify something as existing or not existing is wrong. In reality, there is no such thing as totally existing or totally not existing.
So there is no start no end, just a never ending prosess?
Thich Nhat Hanh says:
"...but I find that simply walking on the earth is a miracle".
And that is very true when we see it in the big picture.
There is a new testable theory that states that the Universe is without begining.
What's most interesting about the postulate is that if true, it will help resolve the incompatibilities between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Also, if rainbow gravity is correct, then the Universe did not begin with the Big Bang, it is far older. In fact, it may be infinitely old.
/Victor
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Without wondering how things work there would be no medicine or science.
@federica, I'm sorry but the link you gave in no way says that discovery and investigation is papanca.
And if it is then all our tech and medical knowledge first started out as papanca.
Today I read a news article where few facts were provided to show that life is not random. But it does not mean that destiny / kamma rule. What it means is that outside of earth, in cosmos, on the moon, there exist certain elements which can create life. Long ago one of the soviet space shuttles showed signs of plankton growing outside of it which had not come from earth so it was apparently present in the cosmos. In another example it is said that comets carry certain elements which create unusual life forms on earth when the comets crash here. So while life forms as we know them are not created randomly, the right conditions need to be created for reactions to take place such that life was formed and the right conditions have to exist that life can be sustained. So matter is probably self regulating ?
_Translating papañca: As one writer has noted, the word papañca has had a wide variety of meanings in Indian thought, with only one constant: in Buddhist philosophical discourse it carries negative connotations, usually of falsification and distortion. The word itself is derived from a root that means diffuseness, spreading, proliferating. The Pali Commentaries define papañca as covering three types of thought: craving, conceit, and views. They also note that it functions to slow the mind down in its escape from samsara. _
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
So any views are considered papanca?
Then talking of right view is papanca.
Any conceit is considered papanca?
Then any sentence with "I" is papanca.
Any craving is considered papanca?
Then discussions relating to the desire for liberation is papanca.
That definition of papanca makes this entire board papanca.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
For goodness' sake, look: You wanted this topic, go ahead and discuss it.
quit deviating.
I've already asked twice, Stick to topic and just carry on, ok?
If you want to discuss 'papanca' (oh, the irony!) start a new thread.
Knock yourself out.
Sex was not on my mind when I used the word "intercourse" (wash your minds out with soapy water and say 100 "Oms" people ) I was thinking more along the lines of interaction...
@how , reproduction of plant life, parthenogenesis comes to mind when I think of asexual plants, insects and amphibians...However interaction/intercourse of some kind (things coming together) must (from what I gather) be involved in producing life as we know it....
So in a nutshell
"How did life start?" "Karma" (No beginning no ending)
"The discovery: Through routine quality control testing, a researcher working with Markus Ralser, who would eventually become the lead researcher for the project, stumbled upon signs of the metabolic process where, for all intents and purposes, there shouldn't have been. Until now, much of the science community has generally agreed that Ribonucleic acid, or RNA, was the first building block of life because it produces enzymes that could catalyze complex sequences of reactions such as metabolic action. However, Ralser's lab found the end products of the metabolic process without any presence of RNA. Instead, the findings indicate that complex and life-forming reactions like these could occur spontaneously given the right, but surprisingly simple, conditions.
"People have said that these pathways look so complex they couldn't form by environmental chemistry alone," Rasler told NewScientist. "This is the first experiment showing that it is possible to create metabolic networks in the absence of RNA.""
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
(Plants do have sexes and gametes. Asexually born plants, animals and fungi etc. are not individuals, but they belong to the same clone.)
There's nothing mystical in life. Chemical evolution > biological evolution, including symbiosis (mitochondrions are originally bacteria and chloroplasts are originally algae).
@Shoshin
Sex was not on my mind when I used the word "intercourse" (wash your minds out with soapy water and say 100 "Oms" people ) I was thinking more along the lines of interaction...
Sounds like cold feet to me.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Rainbow gravity can perhaps explain how life got here in quick time but per the article it does not explain how it was formed wherever it was formed. I am very interested in this subject because I believe that our forefathers were highly evolved creatures as history has proven it. Somehow it just does not sit well with any of the scientific theories around creation.
Some cosmologists believe that life arrived on comets, so we're really space aliens.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited April 2015
That one doesn't seem plausible at all though. And it still begs the question.
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HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
@SpinyNorman said:
That sounds like a sexist comment.
Oh, I wondered how in the heck this thread grew so long . . .
@Hamsaka said:Oh, I wondered how in the heck this thread grew so long . . .
Sexism and papanca in one thread!
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silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@federica said:The latter. It says so in John 15:5. "I am the vine; you are the branches."
Vines lead to grapes, grapes lead to wine, wine leads to merriment, merriment leads to whoopee!!
I'm naming my next kid Vinnie!
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
They found building blocks for DNA on some meteorites and think they formed in space but that doesn't really mean that our DNA came from there. It does appear to mean that Earth is not the only place that has DNA however.
Every basic element in the body can be found right here on Earth. Just the right amount of hydrogen, oxygen, electricity and rock apparently to form life.
It just seems like a big leap to posit a mystery goo to try and explain it.
It also helps to remember that article was dated 2011 and nothing else has been said about it since. Instead NASA seems to be focusing on the work I cited earlier in their jet propulsion lab.
The one I cited earlier was from 2006 but this is fresh from last year.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@SpinyNorman said:
Sexism and papanca in one thread!
Very often, one and the same.....! I'll pop kettle on.....
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I am a sponge a trash compactor if you will. I have 10 fingers and 10 toes all of which have the power to feel. A shovel digs, water engulfs if it can or simply hydrates life at the moment. God is all but never evolution itself
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
In MY parallel universe, I am exactly the same as I am in this one, except i'm a foot taller, 2-stone lighter and have the perfect hourglass figure. And blonde. And very, very rich. Otherwise, you jut wouldn't know any different.
Comments
(Editing went to pot. Apologies.)
I am the one who analyzes things to death. I envy the ability of my husband to not spending any amount of time pondering things that don't have an answer. He is like a worker bee, he just keeps going and these types of questions don't keep him up at night. They keep me up, sometimes. When I think about them, I eventually arrive at a very surreal feeling of not even being sure I'm still in my body or on the earth, and then I have to shake my head like our dog when she gets out of the water, and carry on with what's before me.
I'm not sure why some of us like to noodle over such topics to such great extent. It doesn't seem to help us solve any "real life" problems that we need to deal with. I think there is an inner answer we each arrive at that changes at various points in life. I think we like to share what our answer is to compare with others and see if it's feasible, or if we're a little crazy, lol. On one hand, we want to know others might arrive at the same answers. But often on the other hand, we think we've made some amazing discovery and we want to share it to determine if maybe we are the only one who has thought of it.
For me, the start of life is both the most complex and the simplest answer at the same time and because it cannot easily be broken down (yet) into segments we can understand separately and put together as a big puzzle, we can sense it but not quite grasp it. A hunch, as someone else put it that has no words for us to truly explain what our sens is about it. For me, that is how it is anyhow.
I thought you told us to keep on topic.
Quite. You and I both know it's not always the most comfortable place to be.
There is a new testable theory that states that the Universe is without begining.
Rainbow Gravity Theory.
(No joke)
Look here or google.
http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-rainbow-gravity-theory-in-laymans-terms
/Victor
@federica, I'm sorry but the link you gave in no way says that discovery and investigation is papanca.
And if it is then all our tech and medical knowledge first started out as papanca.
Good question.
Where we live, exist and ponder expands. In other words our personal being finds no need to contract around anything but our personal little planets.
"How did life start?"
From "intercourse" of course ....
"Papanca" is a widely abused word unfortunately, often it just means stuff that people aren't interested in.
Hey, I'm just going by what I learnt...
Then talking of right view is papanca.
Any conceit is considered papanca?
Then any sentence with "I" is papanca.
Any craving is considered papanca?
Then discussions relating to the desire for liberation is papanca.
That definition of papanca makes this entire board papanca.
For goodness' sake, look: You wanted this topic, go ahead and discuss it.
quit deviating.
I've already asked twice, Stick to topic and just carry on, ok?
If you want to discuss 'papanca' (oh, the irony!) start a new thread.
Knock yourself out.
Yes, that's the part we enjoy the most.
And it does not require a lot of overpondering...
So...isn't equating all life as intercourse bound, kinda saying plants are not life?
or
The son of god is really a plant?
And just as we were having fun, a pondering man poops the party...
The latter. It says so in John 15:5.
"I am the vine; you are the branches."
Vines lead to grapes, grapes lead to wine, wine leads to merriment, merriment leads to whoopee!! We're still on track @DhammaDragon !!
It was space aliens, wasn't it?
Sex was not on my mind when I used the word "intercourse" (wash your minds out with soapy water and say 100 "Oms" people
) I was thinking more along the lines of interaction...
@how , reproduction of plant life, parthenogenesis comes to mind when I think of asexual plants, insects and amphibians...However interaction/intercourse of some kind (things coming together) must (from what I gather) be involved in producing life as we know it....
So in a nutshell
"How did life start?" "Karma" (No beginning no ending)
Form is Emptiness...Emptiness is Form...
I came across this interesting article........
http://mic.com/articles/88441/cambridge-study-reveals-how-life-could-have-started-from-nothing
"The discovery: Through routine quality control testing, a researcher working with Markus Ralser, who would eventually become the lead researcher for the project, stumbled upon signs of the metabolic process where, for all intents and purposes, there shouldn't have been. Until now, much of the science community has generally agreed that Ribonucleic acid, or RNA, was the first building block of life because it produces enzymes that could catalyze complex sequences of reactions such as metabolic action. However, Ralser's lab found the end products of the metabolic process without any presence of RNA. Instead, the findings indicate that complex and life-forming reactions like these could occur spontaneously given the right, but surprisingly simple, conditions.
"People have said that these pathways look so complex they couldn't form by environmental chemistry alone," Rasler told NewScientist. "This is the first experiment showing that it is possible to create metabolic networks in the absence of RNA.""
Sex just made it much, much easier.
And likely more enjoyable.
(Plants do have sexes and gametes. Asexually born plants, animals and fungi etc. are not individuals, but they belong to the same clone.)
There's nothing mystical in life. Chemical evolution > biological evolution, including symbiosis (mitochondrions are originally bacteria and chloroplasts are originally algae).
http://www.istpace.org/Web_Final_Report/WP_1_artificial_cells_conception/the_los_alamos_bug/index.html
"There's nothing mystical in life."
A bit of an overstatement.
I don't believe in mystics, and that's why I have no religion. My worldview is based on science and philosophies like Buddhism.
@Shoshin
) I was thinking more along the lines of interaction...
Sex was not on my mind when I used the word "intercourse" (wash your minds out with soapy water and say 100 "Oms" people
Sounds like cold feet to me.
Yeah..... a likely story.......
@how Sounds like cold feet to me.
They aren't conducive to intercourse either.
Rainbow gravity can perhaps explain how life got here in quick time but per the article it does not explain how it was formed wherever it was formed. I am very interested in this subject because I believe that our forefathers were highly evolved creatures as history has proven it. Somehow it just does not sit well with any of the scientific theories around creation.
Some cosmologists believe that life arrived on comets, so we're really space aliens.
Oh, I wondered how in the heck this thread grew so long . . .
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/dna-meteorites.html
Sexism and papanca in one thread!
I'm naming my next kid Vinnie!
They found building blocks for DNA on some meteorites and think they formed in space but that doesn't really mean that our DNA came from there. It does appear to mean that Earth is not the only place that has DNA however.
Every basic element in the body can be found right here on Earth. Just the right amount of hydrogen, oxygen, electricity and rock apparently to form life.
It just seems like a big leap to posit a mystery goo to try and explain it.
It also helps to remember that article was dated 2011 and nothing else has been said about it since. Instead NASA seems to be focusing on the work I cited earlier in their jet propulsion lab.
The one I cited earlier was from 2006 but this is fresh from last year.
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/2014/8/11/jpl-summer-intern-works-on-the-emergence-of-life/
Very often, one and the same.....! I'll pop kettle on.....
@SpinyNorman;
I love being wrong... Or at least partly wrong.
"It also helps to remember that article was dated 2011 and nothing else has been said about it since. "
Just came out this year so I apologise.
http://newswire.net/newsroom/news/00087755-using-molecules-from-meteorites-nasa-reproduce-dna-components.html
I am a sponge a trash compactor if you will. I have 10 fingers and 10 toes all of which have the power to feel. A shovel digs, water engulfs if it can or simply hydrates life at the moment. God is all but never evolution itself
Ooh, how exciting! Parallel universes in days!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/565315/Scientists-at-Large-Hadron-Collider-hope-to-make-contact-with-PARALLEL-UNIVERSE-in-days
In MY parallel universe, I am exactly the same as I am in this one, except i'm a foot taller, 2-stone lighter and have the perfect hourglass figure. And blonde. And very, very rich. Otherwise, you jut wouldn't know any different.
I think I know you over there!
Honey, you can't afford to know me.
(That came out wrong.....!
)
And just to add to the excitement, there may be some contact from space aliens ( I always wondered when they come to get me )!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630153.600-is-this-et-mystery-of-strange-radio-bursts-from-space.html#.VSQjPvnF-jY