Self Image…How important is it ?
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
When I go out I want to look my best, that is, feel comfortable about my appearance…
I don’t wear make-up (well apart from natural moisturiser)
I tend to dress for comfort not for style ( a cross between a bag lady and a super model 'nothing special' 
)
Also when posting on this forum I try to make every effort not to offend ( like saying something nasty or rude- no doubt at times I might come across as somewhat arrogant-which is not my intention )…
It would defeat the purpose of my posts-however members so it would seem have different temperaments -from timid to aggressive…highly strung and at times quick to take offence ( even when no offence was meant)-to quite laid back(taking things in their stride… water off a duck’s back)...Or their emotions are all over the place"running hot & cold" and one never knows what to expect when they respond to a post ) One just can’t tell who will be reading the posts and what their mood will be like…ie, how much sleep they got and what side of the bed they got out of…All hell could be breaking loose in their life (well mentally anyway)…
As ole Abe Lincoln once said “You can please some of the people some of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time!”
Who likes to be thought of in a negative light ? (both in appearance-wise and their verbal manner)
What part does the ego play in creating self image ?
How we see our selves is not always in the same light as others tend to see us…
Do you care about how others think of you ?
Or do you think it’s more important what you think of others ?
_From a Buddhist perspective is ones self image important ?_
Or is trying to improve ones self image being somewhat egotistical ?
http://buddhism.about.com/od/whatistheself/a/skandhasnoself.htm
Comments
Well, I'd appreciate this for a start....
If you were to use the quote facility and avoid the above, it would make my OCD tons better.
Thanks for asking.
Geez where do I begin, I'm going to cut to the chase and say self image is the problem.
If you have no self image then you have nothing to defend.
That I are you think of as yourself is nothing but a myriad of conditioning inherited from life and what others have told you you are.
How others see you is their conditioning, how you see yourself is your conditioning.
None of this is self, it's all observable, changing and impermanent.
How you saw yourself at 12 is not how you see yourself now, which image is you?
If I have no self image, and neither do you then neither if us can get offended. Because exactly what gets offended?
Your eyes? Brain? Legs? Thoughts? How can these get offended?
It's the self image that is the source of all problems in the world.
Haha I always refer back to this point. It always comes back to this. All phenomena are anicca, Anatta and dukkha. Including self image.
I think it depends on the purpose of one's self image.
If it's for my own gratification, then I think it's a negative.
If the image I project in my job lends evidence of my professionalism then it may give confidence to my clients.
If the image I project when I visit friends or go to an event shows respect for the feelings of others, then it's a positive.
Funny that this has come up today. I went to a hair and nails salon today to have the tough skin on my heels "pedicured". I wasn't the only man there, by the way. A much younger fellow was having a manicure. But I couldn't help but focus on the women who were there. Every one of them weighed (I would estimate) 250-350 pounds, were wearing sloppy and even somewhat dirty clothes, cheap sandals, terribly messy hair, but were having somewhat expensive manicures and pedicures. I was trying to figure out what their self-image situation was and what they were trying to project. I just found it very curious.
I think it's a vicious circle at times. If one discounts every other single thing that may be happening, as a substrate, we have a person who loathes the way they look, so gets depressed, so neglects their own health and well-being and how they project themselves, and that makes them loathe the way they look, so they get depressed, so they neglect their own health and well-being and how they project themselves, and that makes them loathe the way they look, so they get depressed, so they neglect their own health and well-being and how they project themselves, and that makes them.... and so on...
I feel a hundred times better just getting my hair cut right. Coco Chanel once said that if the hair is right, and the shoes are right, everything in between falls into place....
I'm quite happy to make the effort
But a question @federica ....Will it be your OCD symptoms I'm helping to alleviate (if I stop using "") or will it just be feeding the ego ? Or for that matter is there any difference between the ego and the OCD ? Does the OCD feed the ego ?
I'm being quite serious here, as no way would I deliberately do something "knowingly" If I knew that the person is/was "really" suffering because of it...
( In all honesty @federica due to the many ailments you appear to be suffering from, it's hard to tell at times if you're being serious or just joking/being sarcastic)
Any way I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I can't give any guarantee I won't slip up every now and again and "" where it's not meant to be used though...
May you be happy and your OCD be lessened
(Now if this don't improve my self image then I don't know what will...It might be beyond all hope
)
I dunno the answer to that. Probably yes, maybe no. It's like the vicious cycle I was describing above.
The edges have become so blurred, it's hard to know what's what and which is which.
I'm not suffering from my ailments.
9 times out of 10 I live with them quite happily.
I make sure everyone else suffers from them, though.
It's a gift.
Going back to your original question though, about self-image...
You're asking a two-pronged question, about the way you see yourself, and/or the way you want others to perceive you.
See, the older I get, the less I give a damn about how others see me in the physical sense. Really. It's just a decaying shell.
When I was younger, it mattered. And it mattered a lot. Youth walks hand in hand with vanity.
But the more I age, the more I become more conscious of how others see me in the psychological sense.
About the effect I might have, about what kind of a mental impression I leave with them.
Believe me, I know my defects, they manifest daily, constantly minute-by-minute.
You can't tell me anything about me that I haven't already concluded about me, myself.
(and I just want to interject here, and ask ALL CONTRIBUTORS that we don't start branching off into "What is this 'me' you speak of?" and Self/not-self stuff because that's a given, obvious and frankly, disrespectful to the OP.
Posts wandering off into this highfalutin area of Buddhist concepts will be edited. You have been warned!!)
But to be honest, it's that I want to work on, more than anything else.
Wrinkles, grey hairs and 10lbs of excess fat I shouldn't be carrying, be damned.
My question to myself, is When I speak with others, do I leave them with a great impression of myself - or of themselves?
I'm working on achieving the more favourable answer, more frequently.
perhaps the Meditation video you posted in Karasti's thread will help with that....
Eventually there is no difference.
We have to reach and maintain a conventional psychological well being and sense of self as the basis of inner development.
It is true that many people enter dharma through inner self doubt, turmoil, psychological distress, opinionated dharma or a fixation on [insert personal assesment].
I am extremely conscious of the image people are judging me on. The ideal is invisibility or transparency but that is above my pay grade.
Maybe it is time to drop my latest mask?
Posts wandering off into this highfalutin area of Buddhist concepts will be edited. You have been warned!!)
With all due respect, I was approaching the topic of self image directly and trying to offer the best possible point I could. If I was being disrespectful the op wouldn't of given me an insightful badge.
I never once said "who is the one . Asking the question?" That would be disrespectful.
This is not some concept you are referring to but an observable fact. Hence why I gave real life examples.
This has helped me tremendously with self image issues, more than anything else and I'm just trying to share in the best way I can what I've found out.
You call it a highfalutin area of buddhist concepts.
It's not a concept at all, you can observe it right here and now. It's not even a buddhist concept, it's universal.
The only concept is the image of yourself. This is a concept. The realisation is that this is a wrong view is not a concept.
It can help someone overcome self image issues. They don't even have to overcome it, they can observe it's just a bundle of conditioning.
I think you are being unfair. I'm just trying to explain my approach. Your throwing my comment into another category of highfalutin.
Well, @Bunks , I wasn't referring to your post or comments. We have, in the past, had people positively threadjack with wandering posts, meandering deeply into the subject of DO, Is-ness, Self/Not-self, and side-tracking the original intention of the thread.
As far as I am concerned, your post was totally pertinent.
That's why it's still there, no...?
I think about this topic a lot. I am totally not a fashion person. I truly don't care what people think. But sometimes, that isn't a good thing, either. I don't mean to dress to impress others, or anything like that. But sometimes not caring at all is a sign of other problems and not simply the letting go of attachment to our appearance. I think sometimes it's hard to find that line.
I also find it interesting to consider that Chogyam Trungpa dressed in a suit when he taught, and expected more of a business casual dress of his students as well.
Do you ever notice how different you feel when you take the time to get dressed up for something? Is that ego only or is there something more valid to that? To me, it has nothing to do with making myself look good so others notice, but a lot to do with an outward expression of what is in my mind. When I dress sloppy, I feel sloppy in more ways than one. I feel immensely different in my pajamas and hoodie than I do in jeans and the same hoodie. I then feel quite different in a dress when going to a banquet or a wedding.
I enjoyed what Trungpa said about it. Something about being an upright, whole person living with dignity. I might be comfortable in my jammies and hoodie, and I truly don't care if someone else doesn't like it, but am I really doing myself any favors in living with dignity? I personally don't feel that I am. Others might, which obviously whatever works for them! But when I do not feel dignified, i do not act it, either, and I find that how I present myself to the world has a big impact on that, even removing what others think from the equation.
I really don't give much time or attention to how I perceive others in that way. I used to, but I am able to see more of THEM than what they look like. I notice far more the look in their eyes, their voice, their body language and so on than I do what they are wearing, and I try to treat them according to that more than I do their clothing or anything else.
I'm not sure self-image doesn't matter. But it's what you are putting out that matters and your intention. Is your "I don't care how I look" a statement of "screw you world I do what I wanna do!!" is that a good view to have? What about if you don't care how you look because you are suffering a bit of depression and don't realize it? I think it varies quite a bit and I think Trungpa was onto something when he talked about dignity and uprightness. If you don't feel those things, then you need to look at why. It likely has nothing to do with your clothing choices or your makeup, but how you feel about yourself inside and then how it's expressing you to the world.
I used to operate under a lot of masks, changing them based on who I interacted with or where I was or what task I was doing. But I think that has lessened a lot. I am much more steadily the same. But again, how I react and interact with the world around me very much depends on if I feel a sense of dignity about myself.
However, I dyed my hair the other day because of a streak of gray I have,
It impacts how old I look a lot, and I admit it bothers me when people think I am married to my father. I really didn't want to deal with that being on vacation with him next week, it's just very awkward for me, LOL.
@karasti said:
It did not feel quite 'right' (or intellectually honest, I guess) to respond to this thread with my first response, which is "Nah, it's not so important". It is important, and when I was in therapy a couple of years ago, I mentioned I had a lot of scrubs (being a nurse) but hardly any 'real clothes'. And then I went on about how this reflected my 'simplicity' convictions. The therapist was way too sharp to buy it. She said a few things, in so many words, as you did in this paragraph Karasti. About intention and being clear about that.
If intention is so darn important, as we know it is, sticky wickets like one's image ought to apply more so than average. It's easy (and not very honest) to, as a Buddhist, repudiate even having an image
(while trying to look as Buddhist as possible).
I have been in moods where I HOPED someone would take umbrage at how I looked, and no, there aren't any pictures of me at Walmart circulating. I mean I didn't feel like changing out of 'work clothes' or pajama pants and a hoodie. I did go to Fred Meyers superstore in my houseslippers but that was an accident. But I have angrily resisted this sense I have to COMPLY with looking like a decent, self respecting 40 something American. When I was younger, I noticed a huge difference in attention from males and females depending on what I wore out. If I wore glasses instead of contacts, and shapeless clothes rather than form fitting, I might as well've been invisible, and that has it's good points.
But I don't have to get all victimized by what I think I'm supposed to think about my 'image' in a certain way. I have since purchased a reasonable non-nursing wardrobe, and I can clean up real good if I need to, and so my answer (further clarified by Karasti) is yes, it is important, because 'why' is important
The faux-hawk is back! (insert the guitar playin' emoticon)
I felt like my old self as soon as I cut all my hair off. Everyone at work says 'your back'......'Your walk just didn't have that gait bumpin' like before....and I agree....It didn't. Why?
......Interesting OP...I often think about this...how can a hair-do define me so much? Weird....
FWIW...I got some killer new shoes on, so Coco...eat your heart out...lolololol
See?? Your top's right, your feet are right - hang the middle!
In Buddhism the self and ones attachment to self is the bone of contention ...So what is the Right View of ones self ( image )
""When a person has right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration, right knowledge, & right release, whatever bodily deeds he undertakes in line with that view, whatever verbal deeds... whatever mental deeds he undertakes in line with that view, whatever intentions, whatever vows, whatever determinations, whatever fabrications, all lead to what is agreeable, pleasing, charming, profitable, & easeful. Why is that? Because the view is auspicious.
"Just as when a sugar cane seed, a rice grain, or a grape seed is placed in moist soil, whatever nutriment it takes from the soil & the water, all conduces to its sweetness, tastiness, & unalloyed delectability. Why is that? Because the seed is auspicious. In the same way, when a person has right view... right release, whatever bodily deeds he undertakes in line with that view, whatever verbal deeds... whatever mental deeds he undertakes in line with that view, whatever intentions, whatever vows, whatever determinations, whatever fabrications, all lead to what is agreeable, pleasing, charming, profitable, & easeful. Why is that? Because the view is auspicious.""
@Vastmind Now that you mention it, I totally agree! Yes, my hair has a huge impact on how I feel and I'm sure that also shows a lot of how I come across to others. I despise styling my hair, and love best having a very short pixie cut. The past few years, I have grown it out some as I know my hubby would prefer I not have such short hair. But the kicker was the many, many comments about how people couldn't tell me apart from my teenage son, lol. Because I hate to style it, having hair just hanging around, or worse the perpetual pony tail is worse for how I feel. My hair is one thing I have always enjoyed the freedom of doing what I want, from shaving it bald to long braids and everything in between. I also love shoes. ALOT. But mostly Docs or running shoes, lol. I don't own a single pair of heels and hope I never do!
When we are young and beautiful, we are insecure and very self-image conscious.
As we grow older, our self-image is not so important, and paradoxically enough, we become less self-conscious and more self-confident.
I do like to look my best and won't put a toe outside before I'm showered, made up and smelling well.
My husband thinks I'm a nutcase for doing my yoga after my beauty ritual, but only when I'm clean, does my day get started.
I have never had short hair, except when a clumsy hairdresser burned it to a crisp years ago with a bad permanent.
It definitely does not look well on me.
I have several grey hairs but don't consider dying them. As long as I don't look like Cruella de Ville, the contrast with the dark hair is... interesting?
There's nothing wrong with trying to look one's best, as long as we don't become slaves to our fading beauty.
Botox, esthetic operations, lyposuctions... I can't understand those...
An interesting survey by Dove on self image.... It's just a door...Or is it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3029777/Dove-survey-reveals-96-CENT-women-rate-average-looking.html
I think I'd take it a step further and say it's an absence or lacking unconditional love for oneself. There are parents who love their children SO much and do everything in their power to help them, and it doesn't work. Simply having love sent to you is not enough. You must accept it, and generate it for yourself.
Self validation, assuring the ego that all is well. If self image is of high import, does that mean the ego needs more assurance of its own validity? Slippery slope maybe. I don't know, I'm an old hippy.....
No, the ego needs LESS assurance, but the Self needs aknowleging, just as does the Not-Self...
)
all fall away in the end.... (but that's for another thread....
She said if we went out like "that" it would look like nobody loves us. If we look like nobody loves us people will treat us that way and try to take advantage. After a while we could come to feel that way ourselves.
Brand names weren't important but a sense of style (even a unique one) shows that one has at least a bit of self esteem.
You had brand names?! You were lucky! We never even had names, there were so many of us our mother would never have remembered them....
We had names but my Mom would always get us confused in the heat of the moment. "Bri, I mean Bil, I mean David!"
You had heats of the moment?! Sheer luxury!
My mother had one husband, two sons and me.
One day, while relating something of our family to someone on the 'phone she went through the lot...
"Kenn...Paul....Feder.....Dom....uuuuurgh!"
My father looked up from the book he was reading, and said "keep going, just do the rounds again, you'll know when to stop...."