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Jihad - is this an opposing buddhist view?

anatamananataman Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran

So let me embrace an idea for a few moments of your time.

Lets say that people purporting to say they are followers of a certain peaceful religion, Islam springs to mind, and they suggest there are circumstances where war is justified. Perhaps that is true... But then along come a group of people who say we are going to exert an authoritarian regime on the Arab world (where the religion pervades) and then when we've controlled all our fellow religious brotherhood we'll take out the non-believers, and convert everyone to our belief. To do this we should first take our women and children and weaponise them as suicide bombers, and because we will be required to fight on the frontline and become martyrs for this cause, we will stand back and watch them die for our cause and laud them.

It's a sickened mind that bends to the will of another's ideal.

So first lets heal the minds that are sick. NOT EASY...

What is making them sick in the first place? Damn thats really hard to sort out, because they have to recognise the sickness that results from their religious INDOCTRINATION, but they can choose to free themselves from it, if they are uncomfortable with it. What some really aggressive guy is imposing HIS authority ON YOU... It's easy to see when you have opened your eyes...

For instance I am now a committed non-buddhist, as I see buddhism as a restrictive influence on my life. But I know I'm welcome here (aren't I ? auntie fed...) - NO; AAAAaaarrrrggghh! Just hell and damnation then; regardless I'm here to discuss important issues and talk shite, within context...

YAWN - I'm so tired I can't keep up this kind of....

Nighty Night


  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited April 2015

    Gangsters go to church, you know.

    This thread is what ** really ** scares me.

    Are u ok?

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    You do prattle on at times @anataman =)

    Sleep well my friend........

  • I think you can have some horrible doctrine but if you learn not to demonize the enemy and love people then you can let go of the negative doctrine. Well some enemies are legitimate demons like Nazis, but: Russians, Arabs, North Koreans, and so forth are just people and they need to focus on their lives and love and peace and just sort of let go of the warlike part of the Koran and materials. The Bible says some disturbing things like rape the women you just conquered but that has nothing to do modern Christians and the idea of raping and pillaging today would be crazy.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    It's a sorry fact that the codification of spiritual endeavor (let's call it "religion") invariably makes religion complicit in atrocity and war. Trying to evade the lash of this observation is, in my view, both irresponsible and futile. Better to investigate and then, assuming you still want to espouse a particular religion, decide on your own personal willingness and understanding.

    The above is clearly a broad brush approach. Short of concrete evidence to refute it, I will not retract any of it. In the last couple of years, I cannot tell you how many of Brian Victoria's meticulously-researched essays on the complicity of Zen Buddhism in the Japanese invasion of China I have read. During that same period, I cannot count the number of essays or news stories I have read about the pedophile atrocities in a variety of religious venues.

    Religion, from where I sit, depends heavily on the stability provided by the state. The state is not in business to get into heaven and has a tendency to stumble into one hell or another. Suggesting that religion could somehow be free of the shadows cast by its protector is delusional.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if somewhere or other the Buddha didn't say, whether implicitly or explicitly, "read 'em and weep." Not that the shadows tell the complete story of light, but light without the shadows ... what sort of impoverished religion is that?

  • Wisdom and compassion mandala gets taken over by war mandala

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited April 2015

    @anataman, maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap, but your post confused me.

    @genkaku, when you said, "Religion, from where I sit, depends heavily on the stability provided by the state", I find that interesting. But what exactly are you saying about the separation of church and state?

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @vinlyn -- The separation of church and state is an ideal conceived by the state. Or, put another way, it is a separation created by a hopefully-ethical intellect/heart/mind.

    Isn't the reality somewhat different, despite all wishes to the contrary? The church is a function of your heart and mine. The state is a function of your intellect and mine. How many lives can any one (wo)man lead? Thus, from my point of view, the church and the state are already conjoined. Not legally, perhaps, but realistically. This reality may be strongly suggested by the blood, sweat and tears expended in trying to keep them separate... and/or to make them "one."

    This reality is offensive to anyone who sees the church entering the state's political or economic arena. Beliefs as applied to day-to-day affairs are a dicey business, witness, for example, sharia law or other laws that rely on a much-beloved-but-never-concretely-demonstrated hope or assertion.

    Well, perhaps I am not describing it well, but I think the separation of church and state is as much wishful thinking as it is ethical reality. The state provides the social stability that religion requires if it is to thrive or even survive. In this atmosphere, the church (so to speak) is beholden to the state.

    And perhaps it is the same in a (wo)man's life: The religion may soar, but the daily particulars bring things back to earth. Failure to acknowledge and integrate and welcome the earth beneath our feet means that the soaring wonders will forever be out of reach.

    Separation of church and state? Sure, for conversational purposes. But in reality...?

  • @anataman as far as I know you don't have to be a Buddhist or anything but polite to hang out here, but it helps me if the poster is coherent. Can you take a weedwhacker to your post and trim it to an idea, observation or question?

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited April 2015

    Actually, @Genkaku, I think I pretty much agree with you.

    Next week on a little trip, I'm going to stop in a town in northwest New Mexico where there was a big to-do about the Ten Commandments statue at the courthouse. And to be honest, my attitude toward it is a shrugging of shoulders. In the meanwhile, in Thailand it seems to have gone way too far, where the government -- to a large extent -- controls Buddhism and uses it. To me, the question is -- where is the line?

    Forgive me if I have misread you.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @Cinorjer said:
    ...Can you take a weedwhacker to your post and trim it to an idea, observation or question?

    Thank you for saying it so much better than I did.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Cinorjer said:
    anataman as far as I know you don't have to be a Buddhist or anything but polite to hang out here, but it helps me if the poster is coherent. Can you take a weedwhacker to your post and trim it to an idea, observation or question?

    (Yeee....eeehs.... I often find, for my own part, that sometimes, the best form of Edit (weedwhacker) is 'delete'....)

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @vinlyn -- If you ever get your weedwacker application off the ground (a potential money-maker, I think), please let me know where to send my check.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    I'm OK @vastmind.

    Last night I investigated Jihadism, and found utter barbarianism, ultimate human ignorance and was upset by what occurs in this (samsaric) world we live in...

    Knowing I am nothing does not really help me understand what is happening...

    @Vinlyn, the incoherence was not really incoherent when I wrote it, it meant something to me when I wrote it.

    Let me now clear this thread up in a few words: I dread to think what I could be, if what I thought could be can happen...

  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran

    Of all the movies I've ever seen, the one most misnamed was "Rebel Without a Cause." The character played by James Dean rebelled against the conventional immorality of his peers. There's always been people who are "sick" running things.

    Why should one ever fear to think what one might be in a world gone crazy? It's always been crazy. Indoctrination is not done only by the high-up authorities, but also by the schoolyard bully. Think on them as little as you can, in order that they not exert control over you. It's the idea of Tolstoy's, Christ's, and Buddha's: "Resist not Evil, lest that Evil become part of who you are."

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited April 2015
    I almost did a rant like that about people waiting on lights to tell them when they are allowed to cross an empty street.

    It really is a fascinating and almost maddening example of our indoctrination.

    Are they afraid of the cars that are nowhere to be seen or do they fear some kind of punishment?

    I just want to run up to them and grab a hold of their lapels and ask them what the hell they're doing.

    But you gotta stay cool.

    Sometimes they snap out of it if I walk past them and sometimes they get right offended.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Yes indoctrination and institutionalisation - our own worst enemies...

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