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@Earthninja said:> Life is exactly the same as it ever was, except nobody running the show. The I thought is still strong as habit but it gets weaker.
This brought to mind that well-known passage from the Bahiya Sutta:
"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
@SpinyNorman thanks for the link mate. I've read that one before once. And you realise it's always been like this! There was never separation. It's all just this stupid conditioned I thought.
Now I have no idea what enlightenment is. Who gets enlightened? Hahaha. Oh well.
Chris is right. That is the way it is.
Our sense of ethics, opinions, persona are just arisings that convince us of continuity and some sort of identity.
We hold to that 'knowing' but it is intrinsically dependent on karma if you like but in essence [spoiler alert] is empty, dependent on myriad streams of past and monkey minded grasping.
I am most definitely lobster but that cructacean nature is a constructed delusion ...
This is why the behavour, life experiences, gender, proclivities, hang ups, addictions etc of people are not what defines them as Buddhists.
As Buddhists they are 'not-Buddhists'. As spiritual people they are not size, gender, orientation, social status etc. They are beyond that, beyond form ...
Emptiness is form and form is emptiness as the Mahayanist said to the little wheel . . .
@Earthninja said:
federica , honestly I'm not asking you to believe anything.
The most ingrained personal belief we've ever had is who we "think" we are. The I, Me, myself thoughts.
What happened for me was I was puzzled as why I couldn't control breath or heart if I was the body. All I thought I could control was limbs, eyes, conscious breathing etc. didn't make any sense?
Then I realised I couldn't control all my thoughts, only some? Why is that? I can't even stop thoughts!
I know realise I've been wrong my whole life, who I think of as myself doesn't exist other than thoughts. Thoughts happen with no controller and the scary thing is that I can see now that movements and choices are the same. Choice happens, then I thought says that was me. All it ever was, was a thought.
Life is exactly the same as it ever was, except nobody running the show. The I thought is still strong as habit but it gets weaker.
Federica when you are ready, you just need to look. No beliefs, no books, no meditation.
It's that simple it's scary. Everybody believes they are a person living life but when inquired into with conscious awareness. No self anywhere. Just empty thoughts.
With metta
Chris
No one who sees, hears, smells, tastes, touch, thinks and feels. Or breathes, swallows, digests, burps etc.
There is only "seeing", "hearing","smelling", "tasting", "touching", "thinking"and "feeling".
Breathing, swallowing, burping etc.
Even the process of "hearing" is empty and dependently co arisen ie. in dependence on sound waves, eardrums, movements of ear ossicles, nerve conduction, stimulation of hearing centres in the brain. A convenient label for extremely complex series of phenomena.
2
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I whisper to a process we call Carrie so that Joe cannot hear me.
There is no hearer only hearing but not all hears. There is a distinction between that which we call Carrie and that which we call Joe or else there would either be hearing or no hearing instead of both.
If we do not distinguish then we have no business whispering to anyone. If we cannot distinguish we are like a vegetable.
To distinguish between the part of the process that hears and the part that doesn't we use nouns.
Carrie, Joe and that which whispers.
Compassion is meaningless if we think we do not exist as opposed to existing dependently.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
This is diverging from the original premise of the thread, and first post (here it is again):
@Grayman said: Does this mean we never consider that past, or does it mean we hold no 'emotional' attachment to the past, or obsess over the past?
If we never consider the past how can we consider the future? How do we know were we are now? How do we improve?
Please address these questions.....? Thanks.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited May 2015
Ah, yes... Thanks for the reminder. I tend to go with the flow.
Right here and right now we can contemplate the past and use it to shape the future.
It's when we attach to the stories and feel anxious or regret that we lose the now to what might have been or what would be so nice if only.
Comments
This brought to mind that well-known passage from the Bahiya Sutta:
"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.than.html
Now I have no idea what enlightenment is. Who gets enlightened? Hahaha. Oh well.
Thanks again spiny
Chris is right. That is the way it is.
Our sense of ethics, opinions, persona are just arisings that convince us of continuity and some sort of identity.
@how goes on about this too.
We hold to that 'knowing' but it is intrinsically dependent on karma if you like but in essence [spoiler alert] is empty, dependent on myriad streams of past and monkey minded grasping.
I am most definitely lobster but that cructacean nature is a constructed delusion ...
This is why the behavour, life experiences, gender, proclivities, hang ups, addictions etc of people are not what defines them as Buddhists.
As Buddhists they are 'not-Buddhists'. As spiritual people they are not size, gender, orientation, social status etc. They are beyond that, beyond form ...
Emptiness is form and form is emptiness as the Mahayanist said to the little wheel . . .
No one who sees, hears, smells, tastes, touch, thinks and feels. Or breathes, swallows, digests, burps etc.
There is only "seeing", "hearing","smelling", "tasting", "touching", "thinking"and "feeling".
Breathing, swallowing, burping etc.
Even the process of "hearing" is empty and dependently co arisen ie. in dependence on sound waves, eardrums, movements of ear ossicles, nerve conduction, stimulation of hearing centres in the brain. A convenient label for extremely complex series of phenomena.
There is no hearer only hearing but not all hears. There is a distinction between that which we call Carrie and that which we call Joe or else there would either be hearing or no hearing instead of both.
If we do not distinguish then we have no business whispering to anyone. If we cannot distinguish we are like a vegetable.
To distinguish between the part of the process that hears and the part that doesn't we use nouns.
Carrie, Joe and that which whispers.
Compassion is meaningless if we think we do not exist as opposed to existing dependently.
This is diverging from the original premise of the thread, and first post (here it is again):
Please address these questions.....? Thanks.
Right here and right now we can contemplate the past and use it to shape the future.
It's when we attach to the stories and feel anxious or regret that we lose the now to what might have been or what would be so nice if only.
Another reason optimism trumps hope.
When are we gonna put that woman down? Seems like we have been carrying her for centuries ...
It's when we believe the past exists, do we have a problem. Same with the future.
These don't actually exist, however the conditioned mind refers to past and future often. This creates the subtle belief there is actually a future!
I read a really humbling saying:
"No, life doesn't owe you anything. That includes a future"
This blasted me back into the present moment. Grateful for each breath.
You had a woman to carry?! Sheer luxury!