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My experience has taught me that every person understands based on their own development. If We practice correctly and continuously our direct knowledge of how things really are may improve.
Intellectual knowledge alone is not enough. It is only a guide. We must apply what we've learned in actual practice. We must know for ourselves these truths. This is the only way it will penetrate our hearts.
The problem with intellectual knowledge is that it is of mind. And knowing directly is prior to mind. Because it's mind's nature to concoct using its contents; it sometimes will create all manner of strange beliefs regarding spirituality (Meditativeness).
We must be able to set aside mind's incessant babbling, proliferating and weaving of epic tales so we can know clearly and vividly how things really are. And that only happens from directly knowing through continuous practice.
@seeker242 said:It does work! If you ever find yourself falling asleep on the meditation cushion, just slap yourself in the face pretty hard. You WILL wake up! Ha!
Tried it. But I got mad and slapped myself back, and my buddies had to separate me until I cooled off.
4
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@genie said:
What's more, u can always hit people and then claim to be a zen master.
Thank you. Humor is very important. It's very useful for relieving tension. I like the playfulness of those people I've encountered So far.
Did you all know that laughing is also a form of meditation? When we laugh, we completely forget ourselves and our problems. At those moments our 'little self' does not exist.' There is no 'individual' there laughing. Laughing is simply happening. A Belly laugh is one of the best meditation techniques. Because it's natural.
5
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yes at the peak if an orgasm. This is so. There is death to mind and self image. Then the following moments mind is reborn. The only issue with this is the contents and intentions of our minds before and after. The happening itself is natural and pure. The absence of little self is pure being.
A young American man wanted to know what it was like to be a Zen monk in Japan, so took advantage of an offer to fly in and spend a month or so at a temple. The senior monk was showing him around the gardens on his first day, when an old man sitting on a rock waved to them.
"Wait here," the senior monk said. The American watched him walk over, bow, and after a brief conversation, the old man picked up a stick and smacked the senior monk on the head. The senior monk rubbed his head, bowed again and came back.
"I know what that was!" the American said. "I read all about that. The Master just asked you a question about Zen, and when he didn't like the answer, smacked you with his Zen stick to make a point. Is that the Master of the temple? When will I get to meet him?"
The senior monk shook his head. "That was the gardener, telling me he'd just cleaned the steps to the shrine and I'd better not let the American tourist track mud all over them. Sometimes a grouchy old fart is just a grouchy old fart, and a stick is just a stick."
I would like to reshare a previous post from a different thread that I wrote my first day in this forum. There are some who may have read it but this is for those who have not.
We all express ourselves differently. Our expressions are based on our previous conditioning (e.g traditions, culture, experience, knowledge etc.) These are only words used to direct one to that which we are.
Because one being's expression of their experience Or knowing is different does not invalidate it. I can only express to you my knowing from practicing continuously. If what has been expressed does not seem to fit within one's own view then do not follow what has been expressed here. And that's fine.
There are over 7 billion people on the planet. Each with their own unique ideology and interpretations. If 7 billion people read these writings there would be 7 billion unique interpretations of its meaning. Some would agree some would not. I do my best to express my life as a dedicated practitioner. Our lives have all been different, therefore our interpretations Will be different And our expressions of it will be different.
I have one rule which I always do my best to follow. I never speak of aspects of meditative living that is not within my personal direct knowing. If I cannot validate it from knowing directly (from living the life) I will not intentionally speak of it.
How can I speak with any authority about that which I have not known directly? By discussing practice and the result of it without the direct knowing to validate it personally I may cause more harm than good.
So I don't speak from books or scripture. I only speak of what I know from living that life. And like yours and everyone else's. This expression is unique to me. And I don't expect or need everyone to agree. I'm only telling the story of my life as a practitioner.
I would also like to add. We must always be open to new concepts, especially when they oppose our own established beliefs. We must adopt a sincere humble attitude. And never presume to know the mental state or condition of another's mind. We are all a work in progress. Even those who Are Buddha and Arahant continue to learn by interacting with other beings.
"There are over 7 billion people on the planet. Each with their own unique ideology and interpretations. If 7 billion people read these writings there would be 7 billion unique interpretations of its meaning. Some would agree some would not. I do my best to express my life as a dedicated practitioner. Our lives have all been different, therefore our interpretations Will be different And our expressions of it will be different."
If every person is unique or "special" and there are 7 billion "unique" people, there really is nothing special anymore. We are either all special or we are all not special at all.
If every person is unique or "special" and there are 7 billion "unique" people, there really is nothing special anymore. We are either all special or we are all not special at all.
Just saying.
Yes I understand your point clearly.
The feeling of separation and uniqueness is one of the many qualities that will fall away as we progress on our journey. The idea that one is better, more intelligent, more advanced, rare, unique or more skilled than others is of no importance.
There is only simplicity. Simplicity in thinking, in living, in being. A place to sleep, food to eat, simple clothes to wear and the many other little necessities for survival in the relative world is all that is needed. The desire to have this and that; to be this and that; to be separate and unique is completely finished.
One does not have to force oneself to be this way. Because we have penetrated; broken through the perceived barrier called mind; one realizes from within the heart that these things are unimportant.
It has been made concrete by knowing it directly. We have set mind aside momentarily and we realize how non essential these worldly desires are for our contentment. Setting mind aside is essential. Because as We examine our life with mind present it concocts and influences our perception.
Try to imagine, if it is not already in one's experience, what it would feel like to observe the world without naming, defining, describing, judging, desiring, liking or having aversion towards any objects. What if it were like this for most of your waking life. Imagine how different your view of this world would be. One would live in complete silence and even mindedness. For most of one's life.
One's views of reality, initially in this state, would be completely altered instantly. Many aspects of our life would fall away completely. The superficial mundane (non spiritual) aspects of our life mostly. The real work is pulling out those deeply rooted weeds. And we have a lifetime of those.
This is why continuity of practice is essential.
By setting mind aside we understand life differently. In a non verbal way. We see the truth that the relative world (world of names, definitions, descriptions, judgments, desires, likes, aversions, beliefs, systems, symbolism, ritual, experience, language and all personal ideology) has hidden away. It's right there. The very foundation of consciousness.
It is always available. It's just that our minds are always so busy we don't see it clearly and vividly. No need to move to the Himalayas. Take refuge in a monastery. Or live in a cave.
Please do not misunderstand me. For some beings, because of their life situation; it is absolutely necessary for them to leave regular society. To take refuge in monasteries. It's like this for some people. For their personality; their character; their nature; their living situation.
But what I'm saying to you is This. There is No need to journey to the furthest places in the world; spend decades looking for the right guru; or torture oneself as part of the process. Everything we need to live contently is built into this very body. Our body is our natural refuge. And all the meditative themes needed to succeed is right here.
So relatively speaking We are all unique. Not as in one is more so than another. But unique still. I challenge anyone to find another human being who is exactly the same as another. In all of history, there has never been one being that is a carbon copy of the another. It's only in our mind, because of our exposure to this world and its standards that we feel we must surpass others to truly be happy.
True contentment via even mindedness can only happen Internally.
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@SpinyNorman said:
Zen is great, you can just make stuff up and sound cool.
Made me LoL. While I can read this and that about Buddhism, I still struggle with the some of the seeming key ideas - and others struggle too with the notion of no person (and what the Buddha really meant by that) or any of that Zen stuff - which I've grown closer to after reading certain books: the first of which is 'Questions to a Zen Master / Taisen Deshimaru' which turned me on to finding out as much as I can about Zen, and the one I'm finishing now, 'The Iron Cow of Zen' by Albert Low, is making me feel like I can possibly rise to this challenge of getting the ego business, and the whole idea of Zen and Buddhism.
@SpinyNorman said:
This is one for the Zennies. What do you understand by "Original mind" in Zen? I had a google but couldn't find a succinct description of it. I think it's sometimes also referred to as "original nature".
Presence.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I think it's a lesson on chasing the horizon.
I don't think there can be an original nature like it's a play on words or something.
Our true nature could be changing. Not that it changes but that it is change.
In that regard there is no original nature because it has always been change.
If change has always been, there is no real start point.
Exactly. 'Absence of becoming' rather than 'Awareness of Being'. So 'the Face before you were born'. Presence?
Not so.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Orgasm, sneezing and other absorptions give us an indication of total attention with absence.
In other words we lose self.
However ...
“One day a man of the people said to Zen Master Ikkyu: “Master, will you please write for me some maxims of the highest wisdom?” Ikkyu immediately took his brush and wrote the word “Attention.” “Is that all?” asked the man. “Will you not add something more?” Ikkyu then wrote twice running: “Attention. Attention.” “Well,” remarked the man rather irritably, “I really don’t see much depth or subtlety in what you have just written.” Then Ikkyu wrote the same word three times running: “Attention. Attention. Attention.” Half angered, the man demanded: “What does that word ‘Attention’ mean anyway?” And Ikkyu answered gently: “Attention means attention.” https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/782399-the-three-pillars-of-zen
So there is being attentive, attentiveness, attention, attending attention, mindfullness, mind-emptyness and
@Jeffrey said:> The wide-open expanse of the view,
The true condition of the mind,
Is like the sky, like space,
Without center, without edge, without goal.
~ Shabkar
Good stuff.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Paying attention to the presents, er, I mean the present. What is "presence" again, it sounds rather like a perfume?
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@Barah said:
If it's not present, how can anyone talk about it?
@SpinyNorman said:
Paying attention to the presents, er, I mean the present. What is "presence" again, it sounds rather like a perfume?
"the state or fact of existing, occurring, or being present in a place or thing."
That's one simple definition.
Can you pay attention to something that is not present?
Can you not pay attention at all?
Of course, you may not pay attention to something particular, like what I am writing here, but it is not possible to not pay attention at all. Thus, since "The basic stage of mindfulness is paying attention", we are always at the basic stage of mindfulness.
Is this true?
Here is more Dharmic approach to explaining presence:
_Accustom yourself to this nondual reality where the duality of mind
and that, which appears before mind, is like a dream.
All that is experienced and your own mind is the unique primary reality.
They cannot be conceptualized according to the cause and effect systems of thought.
Investigate your mind's real nature
So that your pure and total presence will actually shine forth.
The concrete states of matter, solids, liquids, and so forth---should be examined in this way. Remaining for ten days where no otherness can be found, you will realize that not even an atom's worth of anything exists that is separate from pure and total presence. Realizing that, you will certainly be free from all fabricated obsession with the otherness of objects. Moreover, the very being of what is experienced externally, in being an essenseless, open dimension, is shown to be
the state of pure and total presence. In being the variety of unceasing experience, it is shown to be the play of pure and total presence. This is not the same as claiming that whatever you experience is mental because what you experience is not a mental event but arises as the play of the state of pure and total presence." That claim does not distinguish between mind and the state of pure and total presence. The state of pure and total presence is the clear light, the pure fact of awareness, non-conceptual ever-fresh awareness; whereas mind is the motivating factor of samsara: pervasive conceptualization.
As The Two Truths" says:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara.
Whenever the state of pure and total presence is recognized, mind and mental events cease. Mind is objectification; pure and total presence does not objectify. Therefore, even the subject who is held to be mental is also seen to be the originally pure state of being_ - Longchenpa.
Really?
The only absence there is, is the absence(1) of a particular presence(2) withing the current presence(3). So it is three times more complicated.
Or, we can approach it differently. Imagine a person that does not know what absence is. Try explaining it to him. Undoubtedly you will have to use presence to do that.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Actually "Oi dunno" is very liberating, one can remain in the present and not get lost in convoluted intellectual meanderings. I got this technique off Ajahn Chah, though he uses "uncertain".
It's also very useful for side-stepping those annoying Zen koans!
"What is the sound of one hedgehog flapping?"
"Oi dunno!"
It's a form of practice in Kwan Um zen school if I remember correctly. It was even found in ancient Greece, were it was supposed to lead to ataraxia (tranquility). Oi dunno it that is true :P.
I practiced it for some time, but it was hard to implement in a socially active life.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Comments
My experience has taught me that every person understands based on their own development. If We practice correctly and continuously our direct knowledge of how things really are may improve.
Intellectual knowledge alone is not enough. It is only a guide. We must apply what we've learned in actual practice. We must know for ourselves these truths. This is the only way it will penetrate our hearts.
The problem with intellectual knowledge is that it is of mind. And knowing directly is prior to mind. Because it's mind's nature to concoct using its contents; it sometimes will create all manner of strange beliefs regarding spirituality (Meditativeness).
We must be able to set aside mind's incessant babbling, proliferating and weaving of epic tales so we can know clearly and vividly how things really are. And that only happens from directly knowing through continuous practice.
What's more, u can always hit people and then claim to be a zen master.
Thanks for the tip. Will be trying it on myself to make sure it works ...
It does work! If you ever find yourself falling asleep on the meditation cushion, just slap yourself in the face pretty hard. You WILL wake up! Ha!
Tried it. But I got mad and slapped myself back, and my buddies had to separate me until I cooled off.
I'll bear that in mind.....
To All,
Thank you. Humor is very important. It's very useful for relieving tension. I like the playfulness of those people I've encountered So far.
Did you all know that laughing is also a form of meditation? When we laugh, we completely forget ourselves and our problems. At those moments our 'little self' does not exist.' There is no 'individual' there laughing. Laughing is simply happening. A Belly laugh is one of the best meditation techniques. Because it's natural.
Kind of like an orgasm, which the French refer to as 'La petite mort'....
Yes at the peak if an orgasm. This is so. There is death to mind and self image. Then the following moments mind is reborn. The only issue with this is the contents and intentions of our minds before and after. The happening itself is natural and pure. The absence of little self is pure being.
Enlightenment, Too.
A young American man wanted to know what it was like to be a Zen monk in Japan, so took advantage of an offer to fly in and spend a month or so at a temple. The senior monk was showing him around the gardens on his first day, when an old man sitting on a rock waved to them.
"Wait here," the senior monk said. The American watched him walk over, bow, and after a brief conversation, the old man picked up a stick and smacked the senior monk on the head. The senior monk rubbed his head, bowed again and came back.
"I know what that was!" the American said. "I read all about that. The Master just asked you a question about Zen, and when he didn't like the answer, smacked you with his Zen stick to make a point. Is that the Master of the temple? When will I get to meet him?"
The senior monk shook his head. "That was the gardener, telling me he'd just cleaned the steps to the shrine and I'd better not let the American tourist track mud all over them. Sometimes a grouchy old fart is just a grouchy old fart, and a stick is just a stick."
Repost
I would like to reshare a previous post from a different thread that I wrote my first day in this forum. There are some who may have read it but this is for those who have not.
I would also like to add. We must always be open to new concepts, especially when they oppose our own established beliefs. We must adopt a sincere humble attitude. And never presume to know the mental state or condition of another's mind. We are all a work in progress. Even those who Are Buddha and Arahant continue to learn by interacting with other beings.
So we all must be Zen mistresses & masters
"There are over 7 billion people on the planet. Each with their own unique ideology and interpretations. If 7 billion people read these writings there would be 7 billion unique interpretations of its meaning. Some would agree some would not. I do my best to express my life as a dedicated practitioner. Our lives have all been different, therefore our interpretations Will be different And our expressions of it will be different."
If every person is unique or "special" and there are 7 billion "unique" people, there really is nothing special anymore. We are either all special or we are all not special at all.
Just saying.
@pegembara
Yes I understand your point clearly.
The feeling of separation and uniqueness is one of the many qualities that will fall away as we progress on our journey. The idea that one is better, more intelligent, more advanced, rare, unique or more skilled than others is of no importance.
There is only simplicity. Simplicity in thinking, in living, in being. A place to sleep, food to eat, simple clothes to wear and the many other little necessities for survival in the relative world is all that is needed. The desire to have this and that; to be this and that; to be separate and unique is completely finished.
One does not have to force oneself to be this way. Because we have penetrated; broken through the perceived barrier called mind; one realizes from within the heart that these things are unimportant.
It has been made concrete by knowing it directly. We have set mind aside momentarily and we realize how non essential these worldly desires are for our contentment. Setting mind aside is essential. Because as We examine our life with mind present it concocts and influences our perception.
Try to imagine, if it is not already in one's experience, what it would feel like to observe the world without naming, defining, describing, judging, desiring, liking or having aversion towards any objects. What if it were like this for most of your waking life. Imagine how different your view of this world would be. One would live in complete silence and even mindedness. For most of one's life.
One's views of reality, initially in this state, would be completely altered instantly. Many aspects of our life would fall away completely. The superficial mundane (non spiritual) aspects of our life mostly. The real work is pulling out those deeply rooted weeds. And we have a lifetime of those.
This is why continuity of practice is essential.
By setting mind aside we understand life differently. In a non verbal way. We see the truth that the relative world (world of names, definitions, descriptions, judgments, desires, likes, aversions, beliefs, systems, symbolism, ritual, experience, language and all personal ideology) has hidden away. It's right there. The very foundation of consciousness.
It is always available. It's just that our minds are always so busy we don't see it clearly and vividly. No need to move to the Himalayas. Take refuge in a monastery. Or live in a cave.
Please do not misunderstand me. For some beings, because of their life situation; it is absolutely necessary for them to leave regular society. To take refuge in monasteries. It's like this for some people. For their personality; their character; their nature; their living situation.
But what I'm saying to you is This. There is No need to journey to the furthest places in the world; spend decades looking for the right guru; or torture oneself as part of the process. Everything we need to live contently is built into this very body. Our body is our natural refuge. And all the meditative themes needed to succeed is right here.
So relatively speaking We are all unique. Not as in one is more so than another. But unique still. I challenge anyone to find another human being who is exactly the same as another. In all of history, there has never been one being that is a carbon copy of the another. It's only in our mind, because of our exposure to this world and its standards that we feel we must surpass others to truly be happy.
True contentment via even mindedness can only happen Internally.
Here is my favourite Zen teaching...
Made me LoL. While I can read this and that about Buddhism, I still struggle with the some of the seeming key ideas - and others struggle too with the notion of no person (and what the Buddha really meant by that) or any of that Zen stuff - which I've grown closer to after reading certain books: the first of which is 'Questions to a Zen Master / Taisen Deshimaru' which turned me on to finding out as much as I can about Zen, and the one I'm finishing now, 'The Iron Cow of Zen' by Albert Low, is making me feel like I can possibly rise to this challenge of getting the ego business, and the whole idea of Zen and Buddhism.
Presence.
Not so.
I think it's a lesson on chasing the horizon.
I don't think there can be an original nature like it's a play on words or something.
Our true nature could be changing. Not that it changes but that it is change.
In that regard there is no original nature because it has always been change.
If change has always been, there is no real start point.
One from column a and two from column b or three from column c....
Not so.
Presence almost sounds like abiding.
It is present and transparent, utter openness,
Without outside, without inside,
An all pervasiveness,
Without boundary and without direction.
The wide-open expanse of the view,
The true condition of the mind,
Is like the sky, like space,
Without center, without edge, without goal.
~ Shabkar
Or mindfulness?
Very pertinent and hopefully useful posts guys
Orgasm, sneezing and other absorptions give us an indication of total attention with absence.
In other words we lose self.
However ...
“One day a man of the people said to Zen Master Ikkyu: “Master, will you please write for me some maxims of the highest wisdom?” Ikkyu immediately took his brush and wrote the word “Attention.” “Is that all?” asked the man. “Will you not add something more?” Ikkyu then wrote twice running: “Attention. Attention.” “Well,” remarked the man rather irritably, “I really don’t see much depth or subtlety in what you have just written.” Then Ikkyu wrote the same word three times running: “Attention. Attention. Attention.” Half angered, the man demanded: “What does that word ‘Attention’ mean anyway?” And Ikkyu answered gently: “Attention means attention.”
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/782399-the-three-pillars-of-zen
So there is being attentive, attentiveness, attention, attending attention, mindfullness, mind-emptyness and
Attention. Attention. Attention.
The basic stage of mindfulness is paying attention.
Good stuff.
Mindful is a better word than presence in my opinion only because it lacks the implication of fluidity.
That could be my own semantics though.
I take your point, actually....
In comparison to Mindfulness, 'presence' sounds anal.
Mindful sounds like relaxed attentiveness, while presence sounds like "...and don't you move, you hear me?!"
Attention to what?
If it's not present, how can anyone talk about it?
Paying attention to the presents, er, I mean the present. What is "presence" again, it sounds rather like a perfume?
Like unicorns?
Undoubtedly unicorns are present. This is not a materialistic presence, but they exist as ideas. This is also presence.
"the state or fact of existing, occurring, or being present in a place or thing."
That's one simple definition.
Can you pay attention to something that is not present?
Can you not pay attention at all?
Of course, you may not pay attention to something particular, like what I am writing here, but it is not possible to not pay attention at all. Thus, since "The basic stage of mindfulness is paying attention", we are always at the basic stage of mindfulness.
Is this true?
Here is more Dharmic approach to explaining presence:
_Accustom yourself to this nondual reality where the duality of mind
and that, which appears before mind, is like a dream.
All that is experienced and your own mind is the unique primary reality.
They cannot be conceptualized according to the cause and effect systems of thought.
Investigate your mind's real nature
So that your pure and total presence will actually shine forth.
The concrete states of matter, solids, liquids, and so forth---should be examined in this way. Remaining for ten days where no otherness can be found, you will realize that not even an atom's worth of anything exists that is separate from pure and total presence. Realizing that, you will certainly be free from all fabricated obsession with the otherness of objects. Moreover, the very being of what is experienced externally, in being an essenseless, open dimension, is shown to be
the state of pure and total presence. In being the variety of unceasing experience, it is shown to be the play of pure and total presence. This is not the same as claiming that whatever you experience is mental because what you experience is not a mental event but arises as the play of the state of pure and total presence." That claim does not distinguish between mind and the state of pure and total presence. The state of pure and total presence is the clear light, the pure fact of awareness, non-conceptual ever-fresh awareness; whereas mind is the motivating factor of samsara: pervasive conceptualization.
As The Two Truths" says:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara.
Whenever the state of pure and total presence is recognized, mind and mental events cease. Mind is objectification; pure and total presence does not objectify. Therefore, even the subject who is held to be mental is also seen to be the originally pure state of being_ - Longchenpa.
Thanks but I'll stick with the mindfulness.
____> @SpinyNorman said:
Whatever works for you
I find that keeping it simple works best. Long-winded jargony convolutions confuse me.
What can be simpler then "presence"?
Absence.
Really?
The only absence there is, is the absence(1) of a particular presence(2) withing the current presence(3). So it is three times more complicated.
Or, we can approach it differently. Imagine a person that does not know what absence is. Try explaining it to him. Undoubtedly you will have to use presence to do that.
Not being present is pretty simple. It takes no practice at all. Being present may not be so hard but staying present sure can be.
Anyway, I seem to have lost my "original mind". Can you get reconditioned ones on the internet?
Tell me how it is, not to being present.
And what is you original mind, if I may ask?
Oi dunno!
....maybe it's the mind that says "Oi dunno"?!
Who started this silly thread?....oh, er, hum...
Sorry, I was daydreaming of yesterday.
That also requires presence.
Oi dunno!
Actually "Oi dunno" is very liberating, one can remain in the present and not get lost in convoluted intellectual meanderings. I got this technique off Ajahn Chah, though he uses "uncertain".
It's also very useful for side-stepping those annoying Zen koans!
"What is the sound of one hedgehog flapping?"
"Oi dunno!"
It's a form of practice in Kwan Um zen school if I remember correctly. It was even found in ancient Greece, were it was supposed to lead to ataraxia (tranquility). Oi dunno it that is true :P.
I practiced it for some time, but it was hard to implement in a socially active life.
Only in the physical sense though.
Here is a pretty big place and presence would seem to require a bit of focus.