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A useful comment IMHO
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/455431/#Comment_455431

The rather presumptious assumption that what is useful for us, will benefit others in the same way. In other words 'bring Jesus into your life'. O.o

For me listening to others unique insights or delusions is reflective of my own capacity. In other words what are the underlying assumptions both me and they are applying. What is the context and motivation?

For my own comprehension I always work on the assumption of personal partiality, limited and changeable understanding. It also entails trying to find what is right in others underlying message.

Such an approach allows for in built flexibility, without sacrificing a solid foundation of dust blowing through the wind.

So the question is this ... well I will leave the question for those answering ... =)

Vastmind

Comments

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    People mean well, but that doesn't get the job done - whatever that may be in their minds. I like "...I always work on the assumption of personal partiality, limited and changeable understanding." .

    lobsterBuddhadragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited August 2015

    ^^^ They do mean well, especially on a spiritually orientated forum such as this. You are right there is a difference between well meaning and applicable impact or skilful means.

    There is I believe a Christian contemplative prayer, 'Lord save me from your well meaning followers ... '

    A similar vein is expressed in the Sufi assertion that, 'no one attains the highest degree of truth until a thousand honest men have declared them an apostate' - I think I am up to 233 honest expressions so far, incidentally ... ;)

    In a sense we have to go a little beyond our comfort zone, assumed absolutes, perfect dharma bubble unburst ... assuming of course we are on the path rather than dogmatists ... B)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_fox_koan

    yagr0student0
  • SpoogleSpoogle Explorer

    Insane, moi? Not me! Maybe my alter-ego is though.......

    Bunks
  • @Earthninja said:
    It's really hard on these forums because we are talking in realms of beyond words.
    Everyone has their own experiences and delusions.
    It's often a case of me wearing green glasses and you wearing red glasses. Both are arguing that the wall is red or green. But in reality it's white.
    We were wearing glasses"beliefs"

    I'm trying to move away from the realms of belief and concepts and into what is here. But even this maybe clouded.

    Let's just all admit we may be a little insane so nobody takes each other too seriously :pleased:

    Admit? And I thought it was a given. :)

    Several different philosopher and religious type through the years have repeated their mantra "Question everything, especially question yourself" or something to that effect. Of course, some of them found themselves in hot water or the bar-b-q for bringing up the fallacy of dogmatic beliefs. Others found honored seats at the table of dialog and discussion. Those turf wars are like playing hop scotch in a mine field. Hop away through, my friends, hop away through. B)

    @lobster said:

    There is I believe a Christian contemplative prayer, 'Lord save me from your well meaning followers ... '

    A similar vein is expressed in the Sufi assertion that, 'no one attains the highest degree of truth until a thousand honest men have declared them an apostate' - I think I am up to 233 honest expressions so far, incidentally ... ;)

    In a sense we have to go a little beyond our comfort zone, assumed absolutes, perfect dharma bubble unburst ... assuming of course we are on the path rather than dogmatists ... B)

    I think I am up to somewhere between 887 and 1992, if I include the ephemeral pitchforks. But I am sure I still have a long way to go. ( Or was that 87 and 192?, Oh well.) :p

    As for those dharma bubbles, it's pop, pop, pop, pop away!
    Where did all those pins come from anyway? :o ..Oh.... <3

    Earthninja
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited August 2015

    @Earthninja said:

    Let's just all admit we may be a little insane so nobody takes each other too seriously :pleased:

    Are you calling us a bunch of nutjobs ? ...well it works for me :lol:

    Earthninjapegembarammo
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    Are you calling us a bunch of [nutjobs]

    And myself. We talk to ourselves in our heads. Clinically insane.

    Yet we are all insane so it seems normal hahah.

  • Well in a way to repeat the same thing over and over (rebirth)...is a bit yes.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited August 2015

    @Earthninja said:
    And myself. We talk to ourselves in our heads. Clinically insane.

    Not if another self answers, we're not :grin:

    silver
  • Thanks for your crazy answers guys, ;)

    In Buddhist psychology/liberation we have to start from a reasonably functioning ego. That means dealing with the addictions, anxiety, depression, morbid looping or tightened opinions. We need space to move.

    We then need time and freedom to study and confirm, to enact a practice, to engage with supportive mindfullness and being. Otherwise we are play-Buddhists, spiritual tourists ...

    However we must also be aware that mechanical repetition of mantra, experiencing calm or other benefits, walking up and down, prostrations to order etc. etc. will not in themself do anything but create behavoural grooves.

    We have to make use of those grooves in a slightly different way. What is that slightly different way? As usual the answers will be merely telling ... :)

  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    @Shoshin sure... You keep telling yourself that ;)

    Shoshin
  • @DhammaDragon said:
    We all learn from each other and nuggets of wisdom can be found in the seemingly most casual exchanges.

    :)
    Exactly so.

    One of the assumptions us ultra spirituals, path walkers, spiritual tourists and beginners make is that profundity comes from a man in a sangha-issue-sari sitting cross legged and colluding in our dharma cushion fantasy. :3

    Maybe so. Maybe we could have read such profundity on the Interweb or in the latest dharma text. B)

    What may be of more import is the purity and demeanour of the teacher. What may be of greater impact is when we transcend our requirement for setting, smoke, mirrors, incense and inspirational companions. When in essence we start to listen to our mind, heart and experience as the foundation of our being. When we start ignoring monkey mind, start following Buddha Nature. When we start entering the stream. =)

    Well that is what works for me ... :)

    ShimBuddhadragon
  • Yah, that 'bout sums it up.

  • yagryagr Veteran

    @lobster said:
    A useful comment IMHO
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/455431/#Comment_455431

    The rather presumptious assumption that what is useful for us, will benefit others in the same way. In other words 'bring Jesus into your life'. O.o

    For me listening to others unique insights or delusions is reflective of my own capacity. In other words what are the underlying assumptions both me and they are applying. What is the context and motivation?

    For my own comprehension I always work on the assumption of personal partiality, limited and changeable understanding. It also entails trying to find what is right in others underlying message.

    Such an approach allows for in built flexibility, without sacrificing a solid foundation of dust blowing through the wind.

    So the question is this ... well I will leave the question for those answering ... =)

    0 + 1 + 6 + 15 + 4 + 27 + 197 = 250 = Jesus saves
    0 + 1 + 9 + 34 +112 +16 + 78 = 250 = Death to the infidels
    0 + 1 + 19 + 8 + 94 + 123 + 5 = 250 = Let's dance

  • ShimShim Veteran

    ^in Chinese 250 means "stupid". :tongue:

    I'm probably more of a spiritual tourist than a devoted practitioner of any path but still, I've been slowly shifting from robe-and-glory worship to listening to "the Buddha in others". I've met many people whose words could be printed on fridge magnets. None of them Buddhist.
    And then I've met many people who had... well, been a bit 250. (Perhaps I should add the basic stuff: "but that's only my perception" + some self-deprecating comments?) Sometimes I learn something from them too.

    So, does that work for me? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I might take a spiritual snack every now and then from anyone who offers it but does that sink deep enough? We'll see...

    yagr
  • The Buddha is in others and can be as simple as heeding a fridge magnet. Do we insist on the right way to open others kindness?
    Each of us can decide if we are kindly repeating a simple dharma or merely reading our own drama ...

    Be Kind. Works for me. :)

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    You had a fridge?! Sheer luxury!

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    You had LUXURY??! Sheer......?! :confounded:

  • Vas ist das "Luxury"?

    silver
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    das ist un imaginary illusion.....

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    We had to live in a fridge. Fortunately we couldn't afford to turn it on though. ;)

    Shim
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Our only heating was a candle. If it got really cold, we'd even light it....

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    We could only dream of candles....

  • Sleep? Dream? What are those?

    WalkerEarthninjammo
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    Able to ask rhetorical questions? Sheer luxury!

  • Able to respond in a matter of hours? Sheer luxuriousness!

    mmo
  • @DhammaDragon said:
    I never assume I have life figured out already.
    The more I read on Buddhadharma, the more convinced I am it is what works for me.

    Exactly so. <3
    Study is a gradual realization that knowing has to integrate into practice. Study on its own is like expecting a big bookshelf or the interweb to make us wise ...

    Buddadharma works. It needs a lifetime of time and effort. However long the life we have. Effort or 'fun' with samsara is always open to us ...

    Works for me.

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