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Meat eating problem
techie
India Veteran
I was brought up in a Hindu family though I've shifted to Buddhism now. I have the habit of eating beef - it is my favorite - and people mock me when I tell them I am Buddhist. they say i shouldnt eat beef. But it is very hard for me to give up beef or nonveg food in general.
Is it really that bad? ISnt temptation part of life? I am assuming after lots of karma eventually everyone will be like buddha so one cant force these things. Am i correct?
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@techie
That is for you to determine. What is more important here though is your intent, and whether or not you are mindful of the life lost to nourish you. A hungry lion would not hesitate to eat you. But he does it for food, and not hate or greed. Do the same, and your mind should rest easy. It's all about perspective.
You most certainly can make changes in your life if something is problematic for you. The question is, is it a problem because your friends bother you about it? Or is it a problem that is nagging you somewhere inside because of what your friends said?
Not all Buddhists are vegetarian and it isn't a "requirement" in a general sense. I am not a vegetarian. But I do routinely investigate my eating habits and my reasons for them and see where I can do better, for myself (health and karma wise), for the animals, and for the environment.
There are numerous threads about diet, vegetarianism, and so on if you search or scroll through. We were just talking about it a few days ago in a thread about fishing. The opinions on the page here vary widely, and passionately.
It's not so much a code, more of just a guideline.
A lot of Buddhists eat meat and a lot practice some form of vegetarianism or are vegans. It is not your choice of food - meat, meatless or somewhere in between - but how you live your life that matters. If someone mocks you because you are a meat eating Buddhist, that is his or her problem.
Hi @techie welcome
You can not eat your way to Nirvana.
Yesterday on day four of my solitary heretical Buddhist retreat, I felt the need for calming B vitamins. There was beef stew in the freezer. Yum.
Were you a beef eating Hindu or did you swap to Buddhism to clear the streets of sacred cows?
Apart from being mocked (one of my main Buddhist practices) what does your 'Buddhism' entail? Maybe you will tell us in an intro thread?
Moderator note: Or maybe we'll just stick to topic and answer @techie's questions without probing or veering off into other areas.
Thanks.
I am wondering if the problem isn't the beef eating, but the pain you have received from people mocking you. It sounds like you personally do not have a problem with eating beef and you feel that you need it. If people mocked you for something else, you may question that also. What if suddenly the whole world became non-Buddhist (Buddha forbid) and they all mocked you for being Buddhist? Would you quit your practice because of that? Be careful what others think, it can be very misleading. I wouldn't try to find justification or tell myself things like "Oh it will work out later..." I'd investigate it personally and find reason to back it up. I was vegetarian for awhile, but found that eating meat really fills me up and gives me good energy. I avoid factory farming and only take what I need. My advice is to take what you need, do what feels right, and don't let others make you feel low for that.
Being vegetarian is a logical thing to do considering various factors including environmental protection...If you can not outright quit eating beef, you can certainly reduce the quantity you consume.. With so much ruckus involving beef eating in India, It would be wise to avoid it for sometime....
But it is just my take on the issue...you are free to reject it...
It depends on who you ask and what suttas or sutras you read. According to Theravada Buddhism, it's not that bad under certain circumstances. According to Chinese Buddhism, it's really bad.
In My opinion, if you eat most meat you are creating dukka and being unskillful.
Remember you are eating baby animals for mouth pleasure. That is the only reason you are eating it.
Good thoughts all around.
I can survive eating veg food but I like to eat meat/ Point is, I like to enjoy simple things in life and eating tasty food is one of them. What they're saying is, a person who enjoys meat (not merely eats meat for dietary reasons or bcus he cant find food) couldnt possibly be attracted to buddhism.
Clearly they are wrong and you are proof of that
I have been a Buddhist for several years now. I still eat meat. I try to be cautious where it comes from, as living in America we have some pretty horrible places that supply the food we buy in our stores. They don't treat the animals, and often their workers, well at all. Aside from the ethics of mistreating their animals, I tend to believe that mistreated and abused animals are less healthy for us. All red meats have been linked to increased risks of cancer and other problems in many studies, so you might want to be cautious how much of it you eat/how often you eat is just due to health reasons. We mostly eat poultry, but do eat red meat on occasion. Rarely, as local beef is hard to come by and organic, grassfed is quite expensive.
You may well find as you continue in your Buddhist practice that things you were attached to and thought you could never give up, start to fall away. You will start to look at your habits and desires in a new way and start to wonder if they are truly serving your life and practice. Some things may change quickly, some may take a long time, some you may not change at all. But make it your practice and not that of friends, relatives and neighbors. What they think doesn't really matter. But, if someone says something to you and it hits a nerve-makes you upset, angry, defensive-then that is a good time to investigate why you felt and reacted that way.
A solution may be not to tell them you're Buddhist until at least you're comfortable enough with yourself and your actions such that mockery will not cause to arise within you, say a negative response, or a response that may undermine what you seek to achieve or can stand by / take responsibility for.
All advice is just that, advice - you make the decisions, take responsibility and face the consequences.
On what scale? By which measure? It depends on the view point - investigate for yourself and take responsibility for your decisions.
Whether temptation is part of life or not, succumbing or not is up to you - after all, it is you who decides what temptation is.
The latter statement implies that your actions have no consequence on the karma train - this is not correct. I have found quite the opposite - there is no hiding place - I think it is not that one cannot force these things but that one is already forcing these things irrespective - best in such circumstance to see clearly and take responsibility - this takes effort.
Best of luck to you.
Eat meat, beat your woman, beat your children. If people mocked you for being a Buddhist, beat them, too.
I found the article link below helpful
http:/buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd21.htm
@Pöljä is hardcore.
Roll on printable meat ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34581809
I don't think it's that bad. Lots of Buddhists eat meat; the Dalai Lama's family herded sheep and ate lamb or mutton regularly, slaughtering their sheep. Tibetans and Mongols are traditionally herding peoples, and they eat meat without qualms.
There are varying opinions of this in the Buddhist community. Don't worry about it, OP. That's my suggestion.
"Meat eating problem"
@techie I guess it would depend on how one 'personally' defines sentient being and how strict one sticks to the five precepts...
Is food grown or born ? Perhaps this is the question that one should ponder
You'll never find a "right" answer. Some will say it's ok (I'm one of those). Others will denounce you and act like you're the lowest scum on the earth. Eat meat or don't eat meat. There are more important issues to consider.
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Are there any Buddhist temples locally you can visit?
(I'm frankly surprised that if you were brought up Hindu, you were let anywhere NEAR beef, to eat it.....)
True. Most religious people use these 'rules' to mock and belittle other people. The rules are not helping them become better human beings.
One of my favourite sayings on the topic is What comes out of your mouth is more important than what goes into it!
Nature has consumed nature at every level. We are part of nature.
I think it comes down to your intention.
I'm ok with eating meat for survival at this stage
It depends what you want. Food can be a pick me up. On the other hand you can have clear conscience not eating meat. So you have to prioritize your wants and find what is really important to you.
"You are what you eat....Eat well !" (and you already know, I'm quite nuts
: )
If your survival depended on it, I would agree.
Currently, in this day and age, given the available resources and living conditions MOST of us enjoy - it has nothing whatsoever to do with our 'survival'.
It has everything to do with our own desire.
You're ok with eating meat for your own personal gratification and enjoyment, at this stage.
Is what you meant, if we're being honest.
@federica it's a great source of protein.
And of course I enjoy eating it.
I don't know anybody who does anything merely for survival. Everything is for gratification and enjoyment.
Maybe if we were stranded on a island it would be different.
It's not different to eating any sugary food except from some peoples moral standpoint.
Your meditation, teas you drink etc has nothing to do with your survival and everything to do with your gratification.
Everybody has their own moral standpoints. I'm ok with eating meat, I see other animals doing it all the time.
Some humans say we shouldn't, some humans say we shouldn't have cars, have a democracy etc.
it all comes down to what you believe.
The question that comes to mind for me, when reading that is: Would a beef cow agree?!
I eat meat but 100% of the meat I eat I kill from hunting. I am very thankful for the animal and its life and the fact it now gave me life as well from the food it provided to me. I am not a fan of factory farms.
1: There are other equally great sources of protein.
2: I never mentioned survival until you did. So your argument regarding survival should be taken as self-discussion rather than as any response to my post.
You're basically using the same argument I did....
I remember reading a story that Ajahn Brahm wrote about a big burly Aussie bloke who worked in an abattoir. He swears that one of the cows he was about to kill was crying when it came up to be killed! He quit immediately and has never eaten meat since........food for thought.
When my parents lived in Italy, they had a wonderful Rumanian housekeeper, named Zoia, whose 3 children were bright, intelligent, studious, ambitious and dedicated Italian citizens.
One of her sons decided to take a summer job to supplement his student grant, and was offered a job in the local abattoir.
He lasted less than an hour, and became vegetarian that day.
That's how revolted, appalled and affected he was.
He said that anyone wishing to review their own desire to eat meat needed only to spend but a short time in that establishment, to be 'cured' of their desire, damn pronto.
The thing about diet is, no matter what you insist, science is continually showing that what makes one person healthy can make someone else sick. It isn't made up, it isn't in their mind. It has been experienced a lot and now studies are showing it. Sometimes things with few or no carbs are super healthy for one person but make someone else's blood sugar shoot up. So you can't simply tell someone that everyone can be vegetarian or vegan or paleo or fruitarian or whatever. It simply doesn't work. One diet that provides optimal health for one person can be very bad for someone else.
Just from yesterday:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/good-diet-you-may-be-bad-me
And there are many more like it. Related, studies are starting to come out that show our belief about what we are eating has an impact about what it does to our body, too. Which starts to explain why vegetarians and vegans are so healthy, in part. If you are on a morally based diet, your belief in all the good you are doing for yourself and animals and the planet has a an impact on how your food works within your body. But it works the same for people who eat less healthy food, too. If you believe your diet is crap, your body is going to treat it that way even if it's not really true. It's all quite fascinating the stuff that is coming out about our genetics and cell adaptation.
Saw an article the other day that they are narrowing it down so much that in the not too distant future, we will be able to get a nutrition profile that tells us what the optimal foods are and aren't for our genetic make up, allowing us to tailor a diet to avoid cancer and other things specifically for us.
All of this is also why we see so many conflicting studies that coffee, eggs and alcohol (for example) are either really bad, or really good for you. Because it depends on the person consuming it. It's not NEARLY so simple as we initially thought.
You're right, @karasti; only today there was a newspaper article I read which stated that the main reason some people can maintain a healthy weight loss after following a specific diet, while many others (following the same 'diet') pile the pounds back on, is because in fact, diets need to be tailor-made for the individual due to very personal and unique systems which process nutrients in different ways.
@federica
I'm just saying it's a matter of moral choice and it's on a scale. It's not black and white. I'm sure plants don't want to die either. But that's the planet we are on.
no disrespect intended.
Humans are omnivorous, have incisors in our mouths. We are designed to eat meat.
I try as conscious as I can about where I get the meat from with respects to the animals life before death. Some people totally become vegetarian. Some people eat only wild caught fish, some people don't use any product or material that has ever been used on an animal or from animal products.
If people lead by example with food choices I'm inclined to look into it and it would probably change a few things.
If someone goes around telling people what to eat or what not to eat. It's no different to when the Jehovas Witnesses come around telling me what to believe
We are invited to a friend's house for Boxing Day celebrations.
I know they will have a cut of meat for their meal.
I know that it will in all probability have been specifically farmed for the meat market.
And I know that although we are good friends, they will dish me up a portion of meat.
Which I shall probably eat, in order to help them celebrate Christmas with people they have specifically invited, and chosen to share their time with, because of kindness, amity and The Season of Goodwill.
Us.
Better to raise a glass, be of good cheer and share the time of Joy and Peace to all Men, rather than sit and whine "Oh sorry, don't you remember, I don't eat meat, I'm vegetarian....." and ruin the mood, spoil the meal and hurt their feelings.
Sometimes, discretion really is the better part of valour, and silence says more with love, than words can.
I agree @federica !
Several years ago I decided not to eat meat any more.
About a year and a half later I happened to be passing through the town of a friend of mine's sister who I had met once or twice.
Their beloved mother had just died of cancer at the age of 60-something (far too young!) and so I decided to visit her and offer my condolences. She invited my wife and I for lunch.
She served us up a bacon and egg quiche. It was her mother's favourite recipe and she had cooked it in honour of her for the first time since her death.
I ate it without saying a word - my wife said if I had knocked it back she would have shoved it down my throat!!
Indeed, our diet is not something to cling to any more than anything else.