A secret
Namada
Veteran
Hi dharma friends
My brother is going to marry this summer, with the first women he really been togheter with,
they also have a doughter together, she is 1 year.
But now I hear from his best friend, that he (my brother) has a secret relathionship with
another young sexy girl, she is 19 years and he is 27.
This secret relationship has been going for a while, maybe 6-8 months.
My brother fiancee dont know anything about this nor my family or her family, but I guess at least 3 other people close to my brother knows.
The marriage celebration next summer gonna cost more than 15 000 dollar (our and her parents will pay for this)
60 people have said yes to come, and the wedding will be in another country aswell, and this will be in an old exclusive castle.
My brother really dosent care about his family, he is always out, working at the gym where he also meets this girl.
His fiancee are working really hard and she is a great and a nice girl, she know he is away most of the day and belive in his excuses. She is inocent, and wants everything to be perfect. She is really looking forward to the wedding this summer, but she dont know what is going on behind her back.
I feel really bad for her, because she is a really nice and a responsible women who deservs much better,
-Ive been told to keep my mouth shut...I dont feel thats the right thing to do in this case..or?
what would you do?
Comments
@Namada
Ask yourself what you should do?
Formally meditate to see what arises for you about this question..
Let us know what you think.
ONE'S CONSCIENCE is the thing with which everything ought to be weighed. However, broadcasting abroad the misdoings of others is almost always an impure deed.
The thing to do is to confront your brother with the facts and their unmanageable nature --the consequences of which can only lead to harming others and bringing suffering where joy should be. Let him know that you will not be a party to his misbehavior and deception.
@Nirvana Yes, I agree with you, its better go direct to the place where the suffering is, then running around to other people and slander about it.
I will speak with my brother about this and see what happens, I can maybe get him on a better track.
But if his fiancee will find out what has happend, then this is over.
I live in a small town, so secrets of this sorts are very difficult to keep.
Why did the friend tell you instead of confronting your brother? What did he expect you to do about it? Tell the friend if he knows this and has a concern to take it up with your brother, not you or other members of the family. What are you going to do, tell your brother which "friend" is going around saying this so you start a huge fight, or try to claim it's a secret so they don't get in a fight?
This is gossip. Especially do not make the mistake of passing it on to other family or friends. If you try to step in and be the moral police for your brother, all you'll do is make a huge mess and everyone including the bride will blame you and rightfully so. And the wedding will go on but now you're being accused of lying about your brother.
Think very carefully before doing anything at all. Again, the Dharma does not say we're the morality police of the world. You can easily do much more harm than good. After all, what are you going to tell your brother, that it's wrong? He already knows that. What are you going to do if he denies it, or just tells you he's not stopping and mind your own business? You going to the bride then?
I will not do anything right now, I just heard this for a few hours ago..
It was actually my wife who told this to me. My brother closest friend told about this secret relationship to a very good friend of my wife.
It can be a really mess if I do something wrong, so I will just pretend as nothing has happend, and see what happens.
Anyway I feel sorry for the future bride at the moment.
Situation is very complicated because they are also having baby. I think your brother may not able to avoid girl which is so younger to him. If you tell his fiance then she would be depressed a lot. And if your brother continues this lie after marriage then you might think that you must have told his fiance before marriage.
In this situation you might tell your brother that you are not happy with his deeds and ask is he going to countinue this lie after marriage? If yes then this marriage would be more problem to both of them and for a baby too.
This "secret" will now spread very fast. It is already no longer a secret. Staying silent will not prevent harm, because now there are multiple channels. I think you should immediately tell your brother that the word is spreading.
Nothing
Nope. I would tell my brother, quietly, to one side:
"You have 48 hours to tell your fiancee about your cheating. In that time, she must come to me and simply say, "I now know."
If she doesn't come to me, with this message, then I will tell her.
That is your choice.
You cheat, you lie and you put at risk her future happiness.
I cannot permit you to be so cavalier with her feelings.
I don't care if you are my brother.
You are taking her feelings for granted, and in all good conscience, I can't let you do this to someone so kind and who loves you.
You have 48 hours, and this is not up for discussion."
Then wait.
I'm sorry, I'm personally not the type to sit and do nothing while I watch a member of my own family systematically destroy the happiness of his future wife - even if she doesn't know it yet.
You have the extremes of zero action from @Shoshin right through to total action advocated by @federica. I too would be interested in what arises ...
I wouldn't meddle in somebody else's affairs, regardless of my personal opinion.
Not to mention you can't choose family so I wouldn't go building a rift in the family if I could help it.
I'd talk to my brother, and say hey what's the go with rumours about you cheating?
Just be open and straight up about it.
See what he says.
You never know the extent and fullness of a relationship, I wouldn't go in guns blazing. Remember this is all rumours and speculation.
Good luck
Thank you all for your inputs! I found this really difficult, and sad.
Its clear that my brother are cheating, so its not just blind rumours. His friend said that they rented his place to make some hot love numbers of times. I know my brother, he can do this kind of things, and its been going on for many months. My brother also told what happend to his friend.
I also saw with my own eyes how this young girl smile and light up when she speaks
with my brother, and the same with my brother, they also train togheter everyday.
@federica I think the "future bride" deservs much better aswell, she deserves the truth.
She is a hardworking woman, she is study to be a nurse, and taking care of the baby and really want a family.
While my brother are only in this gym, and dosent care at all. He always deliver his 1 year old doughter to my mother when his fiancee are at work and he run to this gym. My mother have this baby more than him. I feel he is not ready for marry, and people know this.
Anyway I will take a long walk at the beach, and see what I will do with this situation.
I will tell you if there are any news
"Knowledge" is a dangerous thing. If you and everyone who knows your brother wouldn't put it past him, then maybe the bride-to-be knows as well, and doesn't mind so very much knowing she's going into a sham marriage. It's possible.
Remember the eight fold path. Lying by omission is still lying. Just a reminder. Consider your stance carefully.
It's a razor-thin path, that's for sure.
What are the potential outcomes of either choice?
I suppose that's what I'd be asking myself, and the answers won't come easy.
Your brother may have a reputation as a ladies' man, and a negligent father. Maybe this reputation is deserved, maybe not.
You've heard third-hand gossip about him. You've seen him around this younger woman, maybe there's something going on there, maybe not. She could be infatuated with him, and maybe he's not wise enough to keep his distance from her, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's actually cheated on his fiancee.
About five years ago my brother went through a divorce. My other brother's wife started spreading rumours that he had sexually abused his daughters. Claims that his wife never accused him of. Claims that the girls never accused him of. It was just nasty rumour-mongering on one person's part. It caused a huge mess in my family that we are still feeling the fallout from today.
I don't know what led to the break-up of that marriage. Frankly, it's none of my business. I'm certain it had nothing to do with the rumours though.
Unsubstantiated rumours can cause a lot of grief for a lot of people. Please don't be part of spreading them around. Please don't accuse your brother of anything without good reasonable evidence.
There's nothing extreme about nothing @lobster
It's the extreme end of the spectrum of suggestions posted.
I have suggested to do nothing about this, like @Shoshin also very easily said.
Consequenses are:
-I dont run around with rumors among my family members, so things will be like normal.
-I will not splitt up my brothers family, its at least not me who will start this.
-Iam a partner in crime, I know the truth, but will not tell this to anyone.
-My brother will most likely keep going on with this young girl, (worst case cenaryo she will be pregnant one day?)
-The wedding plans can continue like normal.
Iam now not in balance, it will be diffcult for me to keep my mouth shut, so this
will be a hard challenge.
Do you know that what was said is true, 100% investigated and validated for yourself beyond simply hearing someone else repeat it who repeated it yet from another person?
If not, then don't repeat it.
Have you ever played a game of telephone? Where one person says a phrase, and passes it verbally to the next, and then they repeat it to the person next to them, and by the time you get through several people, the message spoken barely resembles the one initially spoken?
Also, you never know when friends have a falling out and try to get revenge. Or when they heard it from the friend of a girlfriend who maybe has reason to be angry. You just truly do not know if this rumor is true, and right now, all it is is a rumor.
You said you heard it from your brother's best friend. But it doesn't sound like that is true. You heard it from your wife, who heard it from her good friend, who heard it from your brother's best friend. There are way too many people involved to directly confront someone. If you feel you must intervene, then tell your brother someone is saying this is what happened and you wanted to talk to him to get the actual truth and if he confesses then explain to him that it is wrong and unfair of him to marry his fiancee while he is being dishonest to her.
There are 2 sides to every story. And right now there are too many people involved in this story. I've jumped into situations with the best of intentions, to protect good friends, and not only have I usually gotten bad or at best only partially true information, but many times I lost the very person I was trying to help and protect. There is too much you don't know for you to just jump in and accuse him or tattle to her.
If you don't care about the relationships with your brother, the rest of your family and the fiancee and her family, then by all means, jump in with both guns blazing. But if you care at all, approach with caution, and with kindness.
Sometimes, when working through issues I find that there is no way I could say something and not have it backfire, and then I determine that it is not my place or time to say anything.
@federica I find it interesting you frequently repeat the process for knowing whether you are practicing right speech (Is it kind, is it true, etc) yet when it comes to issues that involve women whatsoever, your own logic kind of goes out the window. The OP said himself he has heard this like 4th hand. He has not actually determined if it is true, but you want him to confront his brother and make demands of him with a threat to tell his future wife based on rumors? I know that feminism is a really important topic to you, as it should be for most women. But often the issues we are most passionate about are the exact ones we need to put our practice to the test with.
Yes, I dont have direct evidences for his secret affair, I only heard it from my wife.
But Iam sure it is true, things like this dont come from nowhere. I can also see how my brother acts, his family are on lowest priority.
I can ask my brother ofcourse, but he will then find out that it is his best friend who started to slander (because he tells everything to him).
His best friend work at the gym for my brother so the consequnse can be that he will loose his job, and a broken friendship.
So I will stay calm at the moment, and see what happens
You are not a partner in crime. You neither told your brother to mess around with the young woman, nor did you help set him up with her. The only way you will be a partner in crime is if you ever lie for him to provide an alibi. Gently but firmly refuse to ever do that. But that's if it becomes a problem. You don't know that. For all you know, the wife is already aware. For all you know, he's planning on breaking off contact with the girlfriend. For all you know, it's all a vicious rumor and your brother is innocent. Deep breath, let it go, and enjoy the wedding. If it works out or doesn't, it's not under your control.
Thanks @Cinorjer Its good you mentioned how many factors and posibilities there can be in this love/affair game. And I have no Idea, iam an outsider.
I will, like before, just observe this game from distance.
But if I see it with my own eyes, that my brother are doing things that he should not do,
I will take action accordingly.
Bravo.
I feel it is a wise and considered choice. There is no right course of action. People and situations are complex.
When a pool is muddy, stirring it up further never ensures a 'better' settling.
Right speech means that one must speak the truth(not gossip) at the right time and right place, with the right intention and hopefully get the right result.
The end result in this case would be that the innocent don't get badly hurt which is potentially the case here. Personally I would move towards protecting the innocent because by doing nothing, I am actually causing harm.
But acting on gossip can actually harm many people including yourself. It also isn't your responsibility to play detective.
...Which is an interesting observation, and inaccurate to the hilt.
Because were the boot on the other foot - were it a woman cheating on her intended spouse - my advice would be exactly the same.
Cheating is lying, is subterfuge is being dishonest, is playing with peoples' emotions, no matter what the gender.
Please don't confuse my stance on deceit and betrayal, with anything to do with feminism. It has absolutely nothing to do with what gender the protagonists are. That's just ignorant.
It has everything to do with consequences down the line; a destroyed marriage, and absence of trust, a total lack of respect and the possible knock-on effect to any children of the already-dysfunctional relationship.
Which is why I suggested that he confront his brother. Quietly. To one side.
By the accounts related, it would seem to be bordering very much on being more truth than gossip.
The choice seems clear: Either act and take the bull by the horns, or sit and wait and see how things evolve. However, bear in mind there is a marriage planned, and an expensive one at that.
It would be in my opinion, outrageous for plans to proceed to an irreversible, unrecoverable point, causing much emotional, circumstantial financial and practical anguish, if something could have been done sooner.
THis isn't just about "has he, hasn't he?"
It has wider implications, and a much greater scope for effect.
It would be wiser to implement damage-limitation actions now, than merely sit, do nothing and allow everybody's plans to proceed, as if nothing were really wrong.
To me, that's just burying your head in the sand.
The truth is simply the truth. Whatever it is, the OP doesn't know just now and is operating on information passed from many. Telling him to proceed as if it is the truth isn't a good idea, IMO.
@federica my comment was only a limited observation based on this thread and another recent thread in which your advice was rather presumptive.
Why assume their relationship is dysfunctional? Even IF it is true he has been meeting with another woman, how does anyone else know that is not part of their relationship, part of their arrangement? I know many, many couples who have partners outside of their marriages. It doesn't make them dysfunctional and it doesn't make them liars. It could mean that perhaps they prefer to keep their business private and it's no one else's business.
In any case, the OP can only learn the truth by going to the people actually involved in the right manner. Making demands and threats rarely goes well, and if the brother is indeed cheating and lying, then he's even less likely to respond to demands and threats. Confrontation isn't always the best way to deal with problems.
I'm not going to discuss this further to avoid taking the issue off topic.
OP, do you know this rumor to be true? If so, how do you know?
I don't know, but my reaction to this topic is that the Buddha had criteria for "right speech". In some circumstances, he considered remaining silent to be "wrong speech". If you know something to be true, and if telling someone about it will be constructive, and you're well-intentioned, and the message is well-timed, and would help someone avoid a mess of suffering, then one should go ahead and speak what one has to say.
But consider, first, the alternative. They have a child together. Is your brother supporting the child? Is he involved in the child's life? What would be best for the child, to be a part of a family where there is discord and/or eventual divorce, or to have a father who's involved, but lives his life apart from the family? Are the fiancee's parents involved in the child's life, and supportive?
IF you say anything to the fiancee, you'd better be 100% sure the rumors are true. And I would vote, first, for your discussing it with the person who told you about it, and urging him to talk to your brother. He shouldn't take marriage vows if they'll be a lie.
I'm thinking the best thing to do - the best way to approach it is to gently broach the subject in private with the brother, in a humble and loving way...no threats of exposure or anything like that: just to serve notice that you know what his reputation has been and nothing but kindness for his future wife, kid and their lives. I think that may very well be the best way to serve those hot coals - even if he doesn't feel them at first.
Ya. We may avoid advice for strange people . But if our near ones needs our advice and little suggestion for a better purpose then we should not stay back.
Personally if I was your brother I would want you to talk to me about it either way, I would like to know the information is out there whether it's true or not. If it's true I might change my behaviour either by ending the relationship with the younger girl or the fiancé, it's very unlikely he would deliberately want either of them to be hurt.
At the moment it's likely that he feels he's getting away with it and that nobody is going to get hurt because nobody knows anything but if he realises that multiple people know he must also realise that it's only a matter of time before somebody tells his fiancé.
If he's your brother can't you just pull him aside and say something like "Hey bro, you know there's a rumor going around that you're getting more busy with your workout friend than you should be. Heh, I don't know what you're up to but if it got to me, it's going to get to your fiance".
That's all I would do.