Thoughts on True Mind

Will_Baker

My take is True Mind is about reality discerned through the awareness of the mind via the Four Noble Truths. The opposite being a thinking mind process, characterized by discrimination and idealization. Reality is not perfect nor is it moldable, however, True Mind can be an abode where observations can be made. What the thinking mind tells us might be false yet the awarness of the mind shows us everything is change, nothing is constant... Comments?

David

@Will_Baker said:
My take is True Mind is about reality discerned through the awareness of the mind via the Four Noble Truths. The opposite being a thinking mind process, characterized by discrimination and idealization. Reality is not perfect nor is it moldable, however, True Mind can be an abode where observations can be made. What the thinking mind tells us might be false yet the awarness of the mind shows us everything is change, nothing is constant... Comments?

Ignorant mind to noble mind to true mind?

If I'm reading you right (which isn't always the case in these matters) you are saying Mind has to be trained to be True so would differ from Original in that it would need conditioning.

Everything is change but everything has always been change and will likely never stop changing.

The permanence can only be found in the impermanent... Causation has always been going on and there could be no absolute beginning for that implies no potential to begin.

No thing is permanent but "nothing" is not permanent because there is no such thing as "nothing".

Just some comments from the peanut gallery.

Just a btw to anyone that wants to distinguish between things and processes that's covered because it's the same thing/process... This is still a Buddhist forum, hehe.

Will_Baker

To me, as I described with the "room analogy" Original Mind is the space of the mind. Original mind can't be trained, just as the space in a room can't be trained. It just is. Now a thinking mind, among other things, makes "what ought to be" determinations, and involves itself in suffering from attachment. Whereas True Mind, through the Four Noble Truths, allows us to observe the world and reality as it truly is, and to abide in the awarness of the mind. OK, I'm thinking I need a wack with the stick now :-)

David

No, that made more sense (to me), thanks for the clarification.

Will_Baker

You are welcome. By the way, when you wrote: No thing is permanent but "nothing" is not permanent because there is no such thing as "nothing", I flashed back to a conversation with a loved one from years ago. Thanks for that, a smile is still on my face...

DairyLama

@Will_Baker said:> To me, as I described with the "room analogy" Original Mind is the space of the mind. Original mind can't be trained, just as the space in a room can't be trained. It just is. Now a thinking mind, among other things, makes "what ought to be" determinations, and involves itself in suffering from attachment. Whereas True Mind, through the Four Noble Truths, allows us to observe the world and reality as it truly is, and to abide in the awarness of the mind. OK, I'm thinking I need a wack with the stick now :-)

So Original Mind is the empty space, OK. But what is "True Mind"? Does True Mind occupy the space of Original Mind?

Will_Baker

Well, in a strictly Zen sense, True Mind is reality and transcends conceptualization. Do you believe mind space is part of one's reality?

pegembara

@Will_Baker said:
To me, as I described with the "room analogy" Original Mind is the space of the mind. Original mind can't be trained, just as the space in a room can't be trained. It just is. Now a thinking mind, among other things, makes "what ought to be" determinations, and involves itself in suffering from attachment. Whereas True Mind, through the Four Noble Truths, allows us to observe the world and reality as it truly is, and to abide in the awarness of the mind. OK, I'm thinking I need a wack with the stick now :-)

Interesting.

There is the conditioned ie. thoughts, feelings, perceptions. forms
The unconditioned(?Original Mind) which is untainted by the conditioned.

The knowing of these two ?True Mind.

"True Mind" sees this

There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.

Lionduck

My lesser mind wants to dive in and mix it up and my greater mind says "I'll be here when you get back."

Shoshin

True Mind ...Is the non grasping non clinging mind .....

lobster

Thanks guys
My understanding from peoples use of language is 'original mind' is cage widening. In other words it is the space in which we recognize 'True Mind'.

So original mind is the result of meditation practice and true mind is enlightened or awake mind?

Pah! Why didn't you say so? Or did I get it wrong again?

DairyLama

@Will_Baker said: Well, in a strictly Zen sense, True Mind is reality and transcends conceptualization. Do you believe mind space is part of one's reality?

Do you mean True Mind is reality or the experience of reality? "Reality" is tricky here.

DairyLama

@pegembara said:> > There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.

I visualise this as the eye at the centre of the storm.

pegembara

Or

"Having nothing, clinging to nothing: that is the Island, there is no other; that is Nibbana, I tell you, the total ending of ageing and death"

“For those standing in the middle of a lake, when a fearful flood has
arisen, for those overcome by old age and death, speak about an
island, dear Sir, you must explain an island to me, so there will be no
more after this.”

“For those standing in the middle of a lake, when a fearful flood has
arisen, for those overcome by old age and death, I speak about an
island, Kappa: Having nothing, no attachment, this is the island with
nothing beyond, this is called Nibbāna, I say, the end of old age and
death. Knowing this, those who are mindful, who are emancipated in
this very life, come not under Māra’s control, they are not servants to
Māra.”

Kappa’s Questions
Parayanavagga

Will_Baker

@SpinyNorman said:

@Will_Baker said: Well, in a strictly Zen sense, True Mind is reality and transcends conceptualization. Do you believe mind space is part of one's reality?

Do you mean True Mind is reality or the experience of reality? "Reality" is tricky here.

-It seems to me reality which transcends conceptualization would be subjective and Objective and probably more...