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Chris Crazy Question #5
Earthninja
WandererWest Australia Veteran
Here is a good one and it's taken me awhile to find this answer. 
5 What is the meaning of life? Is there one? Does yours?
Metta
0
Comments
42
I don't see how there could be one, since it's different for everyone. That is to say that we choose what's meaningful, even if that means buying into someone else's story.
Well since you asked nicely......
It's life's best kept secret and I feel that by attempting to unlock the secret by intellectual means can (if one is not careful) take one further away from its meaning.... Life is in a sense its own meaning ..."I" gave up trying to find a meaning for it....and now just go with the flow and watch its secret continue (beyond words) to unfold...making itself known...
In fact I'll go so far as to say life is truly wonder full ....... (If you know what "I" mean
The Meaning of Life is to not ask crazy questions ad infinitum....
KNow your limit, and stick with it.
After a while you see, it can wear thin....
However, The Meaning of Liff is a really bloody good laff....
"The precious pot containing my riches becomes my teacher in the very moment it breaks"
~Milarepa
I'm capping it at 10. More than enough koans to work on.
Life is utterly meaningless. The only thing that requires meaning in anything is the human objectifying brain.
The flower doesn't think, what's the point of blooming?
The dog doesn't think, why am I here?
The objectifying brain is our source of navigating our environment, but not a means to understand who we are.
Life simply is, it is beyond all concepts and ideas. There is absolutely no purpose and meaning to all this. Who says there has to be a meaning?
So....what you mean is.......... you've answered your own question.....?
I still prefer Liff. At least you can have a laugh at some location's expense, and it doesn't hurt anyone.....
Liff?!
My question is open to anybody, it's good to contemplate these things. My answer is what I've found to be the case but I like to see how others approach these questions.
I mean, here we are on a spinning planet that's orbiting a super giant fiery ball and we are talking to each other through symbols.
Kind of weird right
Understanding life has no meaning or purpose has helped me let go of many things.
The meaning of life...
Because it can?
Hats
@Earthninja
I suspect that every day might offer a different answer but today's is that...
Each moment offers the possibilities of clinging onto, pushing away, ignoring or bringing to some resolution, the karmic inheritances of our existence.
The meaning of life simply reflects our relationship with this inheritance.
I know you do not mean it thus but when stated it can sound nihilistic, hopeless and depressing.
Not in the least.
If having no meaning it can have any meaning. Yippee!
For example here is my @uckit list:
bucket! ... I will stop there ...
I certainly can't answer the 'meaning of life' for you. You have to work that one out by yourself - no spoon feeding allowed.
Rather, as @lobster said: bucket list: develop meaningful everything.
Point: It is much better and much more rewarding (and more fun) to make life meaningful than to worry if life has 'meaning'.
If you life is meaningful, you have no need to ask the question.
If your life is not, you can not answer the question.
Peace to all
Ice-cream?
It sounds that way to you though
do you see what I mean?
We create meaning where there is none all the time.
If life has no meaning ... We can stop being so serious. Stop pretending like we are going to live for ever. Stop crying that we have a flat tire, or even better that it is ok to cry over a flat tire.
That this life is really a fireworks display, completely beyond what our minds can grasp.
Isn't that awesome? We try try try so hard to understand, find meaning, create this perfect life...
When that can all fall away. We can truly be free. We are going to die, life has no meaning...this only affects the idea we have about ourselves.
Our heart will still beat, thoughts will still arise. The fireworks carry on.
And when we realise that point is life itself, is like a fireworks display, some big fireworks, some small but all part of the show.
We can appreciate it. In it's fullest form.
We stop caring about the size of the rockets. We just marvel at each moment.
All we've ever wanted is what we already have, we just don't notice.
Because we are too busy trying to understand, to grasp, to intellectualise.
Thoughts are only a small fraction of existence. We make them seem so huge.
You're sermonising again.
...Without being Buddhist, apparently......?
Indeed. Somewhat confusing.
I guess I'm just passionate about this topic, this is probably the wrong place to do so it seems. Lol.
Yes, it probably is. You sound like a born-again Christian.
Hahaha.
Except it's not a sermon because I'm not trying to get anyone to believe anything.
There may be some who resonate with this kind of sharing. I've only met a handful however. ?
Most people want to discuss intellectual ideas. And that's cool!
Plus you can only preach to egos. Oooooh he went there
-
@SpinyNorman I've enjoyed our talks, flash back like two years ago. We've been discussing for years now. Wow.
Hope your well mr "Oi dunno"
Meaning may be relatively new on the scene but I wouldn't say for sure.
The meaning could be to simply give meaning for meaning is not something we find, it's something we make.
Everything can be useful, even life, lmao.
If there is usefulness there is purpose and if there is purpose there is meaning.
Meaningless is the same as useless.
Then why do you keep going on about it? It certainly looks like you are trying to convince people. Or is it just self-indulgence? In any case I think everyone has got the message now, and being repeatedly preached at is tiresome.
Clearly we make our own meaning, it can be any number of things,
@Earthninja I quite enjoy your responses. Everyone takes something different from everything. Your last (longer) post was very reminiscent of Trungpa.
I quite like him, or rather his teachings.
Meaning of life. I do think it's one of those things difficult to share, because the second you try to assign words, other people reading are already off track of what you meant because they apply their experience. I think we are all here for different reasons. I'm not sure I believe in the exact romantic idea of having a purpose, as most people seem to mean that as in, "how will the world remember me when I'm gone?" And I truly don't care, lol. I hope my children think I did ok and understand I always did my best with what I had at the time.
If you are on FB you've probably seen the "25 words for feelings we have but can't explain. No, I've never checked if the words exist as I don't care. I'm stealing 2 for my answer, lol
The tendency to give up trying to talk about an experience because people are unable to relate to it.
So for me, at this point in my life, is closest to this:
21. Liberosis
The desire to care less about things. To loosen your grip on your life, to stop glancing behind you every few steps, afraid that someone will snatch it from you before you reach the end zone - rather to hold your life loosely and playfully, like a volleyball, keeping it in the air, with only quick fleeting interventions, bouncing freely in the hands of trusted friends, always in play.
Is there a grand, larger purpose to my lives? To any of our lives? I suspect not. But I hope to enjoy the time I am here, because the rest is just a guess.
This is true but there could be a reason life is gradually becoming more and more aware of the world while also developing the means to manipulate it.
Going by the 4NTs I'd say the meaning of an awakened life is to end suffering.
Going by evolution, it could be to become more and more aware of what is really going on and mastering the art of manipulation as a means to explore.
What method is used by natural selection to determine what is beneficial and what isn't?
It could be just a chance to play and share but through our ignorance and greed we lost what it was about.
I'm just watching my daughter play while I write this. I just told her some people think life is meaningless which would mean she is meaningless. All she said was "Baby sleep, Daddy"
I think it's likely best not to worry too much about what it all means while at the same time not to dismiss the possibilities.
It may be meaningless and if it is, we do make our own meaning which goes to negate meaninglessness.
It may mean something objectively that nobody has ever conceived subjectively.
Nobody relying on anything more than intuition can say for sure.
I'm sorry mate, I don't mean preach. I definitely don't mean it to come across that way.
It's just that what everybody is searching for is already here, I'm not saying I'm a Buddha or anything but I've seen enough that the seeking is falling away.
I can't help but share this, if it really annoys people I will stop.
Life is completely doing itself, and the brain writes the story of us. It's completely incredible, beyond any words or concepts. There is no way to describe it, yet it IS this.
So when I see members posting about what I need to do to do XYZ, or how long should I meditate for... Or what do I need to do to get enlightenment. . .
These words spring up!
Maybe it's futile I don't know
you don't have to reach enlightenment, this moment is it.
We so strongly believe it's not, and we get defined by the chasing of it.
I really don't mean to sound like a preacher. I couldn't prescribe a method, a couldn't suggest somebody do something because there isn't a somebody doing anything.
All I can do is try and describe this... Maybe someone will resonate.
But seriously if I'm doing a horrible job and merely annoying people I will stop haha.
I only share it here because I started here a few years ago and there are like minded people here all after the same thing. Which is freedom from suffering.
And when you see there actually is no sufferer... You can't help but try spread the word!
Metta
Buddhism is the raft. That's what people come here for. If they were ready to leave the raft behind, they wouldn't be here talking about Buddhist ideas and methods.
The word worth spreading is not that suchness looks this or that to me, and that there is no person so don't worry about practicing. That message is harmful. It undermines a large portion of what we consider to be Buddha's teachings.
@robot the message is only harmful to our ideas of how life should be. Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Advaita.., they are all pointing to the same thing. Probably Christianity , Islam etc as well.
We get so lost in the concepts and teachings we miss what is already here.
I'm not saying don't worry about practicing, I'm saying there isn't anyone who is practicing. It will either happen or it won't.
You don't need a raft? Where are you going?
The "person" who needs a raft doesn't exist, it's always been just life. This. Whatever it feels or looks like.
The idea of a person who needs a raft just ties tighter knots in the illusion.
Sometimes the really right knots snap, and this... Sees the person was just an idea.
I'm not saying do nothing', I'm saying there never was anybody doing anything. Life just living itself, and creating this entity called "me" who feels separate. So this "I" tries anything to find lasting happiness. Maybe religions, maybe sports etc.
Bit this "I" was never a real thing, it's always just a story. A very deeply believed one but just a story. And occasionally a perception shift occurs in some brains and sees it's all a story. No sufferer, no volition, nobody... Just this.
Some people see through the illusion and seem to wake up permanently. But it's not the person waking up. It's this. Awareness aware of itself? Words fail.
Many people have glimpses of this, just oneness. For any given time. But the belief in personhood seems to come back.
It appears different for everyone
Buddhism is great practice
it really is. But it's not necessary to be raft. Hence all the schools and religions. There's no path to here. It's already here. That's the ultimate surprise.
I love Buddhism but it's a pointer. Not a method.
It all method, including the one you're describing. Anyway, maybe we could talk about Buddhism now?
It seems like you are trying too hard.
You keep describing anatta from your perspective and seem to believe that's all there is to it all. However, this is a Buddhist forum and anatta only scratches the surface.
On another note, what do you suppose the difference between a pointer and a method is?
Even if one has a logical understanding, it takes practice before one can drop the raft. For most, simply telling them they don't need it isn't enough.
Have you ever read The Talisman by Stephen King? It's about a boy who flips between 2 worlds on a quest to save his mom (who is the queen in the other world). In the other world, the flip side (based in the US) travel is much faster. It is the US, but like a shrunken version. So to travel 100 miles in the other world is to travel 500 miles in this world. Anyhow, when he starts out, he uses a magic juice that flips him between the worlds. In time, he learns he can do it without. But he never would have learned of the other world without the juice to help get him there until he discovered his own understanding and ability. That is what Buddhism reminds me of. Our discoveries in our practice can bring us a long ways in the "real" world, and along the way hopefully we learn we can do it no matter what, that it's always within us and it's not really that the practice/magic juice that truly matters. It's not magic. It just allows us to discover what is already there. But we need somewhere to start. Simply having someone tell us is not enough.
And now anyone who hasn't read the book is really confused, LOL. Excellent fantasy story, not a typical King horror novel. Probably my favorite fiction book of all time.
I think I've seen enough nature shows on tv to conclude that the life that has come to exist is nothing but purpose - intent - which translates to passion and zeal - which is creativity itself. The meaning of/to life IS purpose.
I'll have to read that one, @karasti. What, they didn't make a movie?
The character is an alternate version of Jake from the Dark Tower books and also the kid from The Stand. The Man in Black is in the Stand as well. The Stand was made into a movie and Dark Tower will be coming soon.
Kings sci-fi is even better than his horror.
Sorry for the off topic.
Yeah probably! I should tone it down.
We it is indescribable.
A method is for the "seeker" that there is actually a person who needs a method to do something.
Description bypasses the seeker.
@karasti >Even if one has a logical understanding, it takes practice before one can drop the raft. For most, simply telling them they don't need it isn't enough.
Who says you need to practice before you drop the raft? Isn't this an idea?
The practice is kind of what keeps the illusion going. Sometimes practice happens and then the story is seen through. But practice really has nothing to do with the shift.
There are people who wake up with absolutely no background of meditation.
Because what we are is already here. >
@SpinyNorman said:
I'm not describing any method, and I am talking about Buddhism, well I'm talking about the shore. Not the raft. Isn't that the point?
Or we could talk about the raft for 40 years not realising we didn't need it.
Ok thanks guys for reading my yammer again. Apologies if this annoys anyone.
you guys.
It's not fun for the seeker to be told you don't need a method. I understand that, we feel we need to do something like everything in life. Work hard for a goal.
I iz having fun. I don't require a method.
A lot of enlightened people throughout history and presently, continue practicing a formal method such as meditation.
If we are disciplined and perfectly realised, then meditation would still be useful as it was for the Buddha. It would still have meaning.
... and now back to seeking the fun meaning method ...
There's no one there to become annoyed
@Earthninja
Yeah definitely, some continue to meditate. Some do not however. There is nobody doing either. It happens as it does
I know Adyashanti continues to meditate after his enlightenment, however he doesn't stress meditation as necessary for realisation.
He meditated a lot, he spent hours a day in his dojo meditating for years with utter determination.
One day he couldn't do it anymore, he realised he was an utter failure. Then he woke up.
Interesting story of his, and his teachings are pretty cool. It's like Advaita/zen haha.
Although there can still be annoyance.
For whom ?
There doesn't need to be a subject,
A leaf falls, who is doing the falling?
There is annoyance, who is annoyed?
There is no annoyance ....
Nor is there love, sunsets, trees, and flowers. But in the story there is.
Whose story ? ( only joking ...This could go on forever
)
You iz story.
Nailed it lion duck
Learning and growing, as we're doing here. Helping others.