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Very close family member ill
Emmalou
Tx Explorer
My father is very I'll, and is very confused can't remember much. It's taken a toll on me, and I will admit I've backtracked. I've been self medicated with alcohol the irony in that is, this is why my father is ill, because of alcoholism. I'm finding myself in a hole i love him so much, and I don't like that I'm using alcohol to ease the pain, how do we deal with these types of situations? Thank you
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Comments
First, you find a local Al-Anon group and you join them, because there is nothing written, anywhere, that stipulates you have to go through this on your own.
A wonderful, long-term member, @Tosh , can probably be a lot more informative about such matters, because he is involved with such an organisation.
Secondly, you stop drinking.
Easier said than done, of that I am 100% certain, but let's not call it something pretty, like 'self-medicating'.
You are turning to drink, and it's the same substance that is harming your dad now, so you are basically following the same addictive path, and it could kill you.
Every time you feel like turning to a drink, go for a good walk. If you have any drink at home - pour it down the sink, and do that now.
You can only stop if you take charge of what you are doing, own it, and help yourself.
@Tosh will help you far more constructively - but if you need help - and it rather sounds as if you do - find it, and take it.
It exists and it's there, waiting for you.
May your father
And all who love him
Find peace.
@emmalou -- The tendency of a caregiver faced with another's alcohol addiction is to think that somehow s/he is responsible for and capable of making things better. When that doesn't work, it can be very disheartening. The hard fact is that only the addict can do anything. The caregiver, as suggested above, would do well to find support in something like Al-Anon, where the reality check is grounded in hard experience. Addicts either do or don't "hit bottom" -- a place where they decide to live or decide to die. No one else can make that decision. But there can be a lot of pain while they are making up their minds.
Please take care of yourself.
PS. Something like Al-Anon has the added of advantage of letting you know that you are in no way alone either in your sadness or solutions. There are a LOT of people just like you. Never forget that alcohol addiction is the single biggest drug addiction in the USA.
Do you have anyone to share your struggle with? This isn't a problem that can be solved, but a situation you must endure. The very best way to cope is to reach out and we can provide a bit of help there. Much better would be having someone with a shoulder to cry on once in a while, but sometimes we're not that fortunate.
I do have my fiance he sometimes does not know how to respond to this, I've also had to be my dad's new wife's support she's up north with him by her self. It is hard because I have no way of going and seeing him, my biggest issue is figuring out how to deal with this in a healthy way, I try to reach out, and I cry, but then I get responses that imply me getting on medication, and I don't understand why people say that, because I believe it's healthy to feel your emotions, and I'm not running around crying everywhere. Ugh I'll stop here is feel as if I'm going on a tangent
I'm just scared and I cry mainly, because of the brain damage it has caused, my mind is in fear that once I see him he won't be the same, and with this thought that dances in my head does send a dark pain to my chest I can't stop the tears, but I've came from a background where there is no crying, and thus has led to my drinking. I know it's not right, but Im scared.
Brain damage it has caused my father is meant
The practicing of mindfulness WILL help alleviate the scattered thoughts and emotions you are going through. That's the best advice I can give you - plus my heart goes out to you. You can't be expected to be all things to all the close people around you! It's your belief that you could and should be some sort of 'help' to your fiancé, his dad AND his dad's new wife that is really wrecking things for you. Can you see that they have to do things for themselves? You are having unreasonable demands put on you, and the fact that you are a gentle soul leads them to feel you are capable and willing. Let them fend for themselves, whatever that may entail. Be calm, honey.
Ditto what the others have said about Al-Anon. I've heard a few Al-Anon shares (they often get asked to share at A.A. conventions; just to make us alcoholics feel guilty
) and they seem a wise bunch when it comes to dealing with the drinking of others.
And if you're using alcohol, or being used by it, A.A. could possibly be the place for you? If not now, then maybe later when it's really hurting us seems to be the most popular time to join.
I know a few people who are members of both Al-Anon and A.A.; they euphemistically (I think) call themselves 'Double Winners'.
I think so too, but I think one of the reasons I drank was that I didn't know how to manage the way I was feeling, so I used booze to help me manage my feelings and emotions. It just wasn't when I was sad or bored; I couldn't even stand feeling happy (euphoric?) and that could drive me to drink as much as anything negative.
And sorry about your Dad; my dad was an alcoholic too. There really isn't much anyone can do for him you know? It's best - from what I've learnt - to let people get on with it; to detach with love; and hopefully they'll get to tough spot when the pain of drinking forces them to look for help.
Regards,
Tosh
These are very difficult times, Emmalou, and anybody in your place would be struggling as much as you are. We are all here to support you, you're not alone in this.
Thank you, everyone. I am powering through as much as one could, but I'm ready to get back to my roots. I was meditating a lot and would watch lectures by the dahli lama on a daily bases. I have to admit I've slipped, maybe I became jaded and could only see the bad in the world, and in return I became so negative, I couldn't even meditate. I truly am ready to go back to what I know is true and healthy, and I would love to become more involved on this website, I feel at home on here, everyone is not judgemental, and very kind.
^^^ People genuinely do care. We all slip. We all try. Some will do puja/dedicated practice for your situation.
Good luck.
support groups can be amazingly helpful, it's always nice to know you aren't alone. I watched my children's father die from alcoholism and prescription drug abuse. It leaves you feeling very helpless. It seems crazy, but it is so common to want to drink even though you know they are in that state because of it. It helps us numb and dull our feelings, and escape. Regardless of whether you drink or not, there isn't an escape, all we can do is face it and cope with it. What helped me the most when I knew I was unhappy with how often/how much I was drinking was first to stop buying it. I didn't eat out at places that served it. I made a new routine. For me, it was more habit than addiction and I had to break the habit of making drinks every evening. I started drinking tea, and I set it up right on the counter so I wouldn't forget. I set my intention early in the day to drink tea at night, but sometimes I would still go on autopilot and mix alcohol. So interrupting that process helped a lot.
But you need to be careful yourself, as addiction has strong genetic components. I never had problems or symptoms not drinking, and I could take it or leave it. I have alcoholism in my family, too, so I am much more careful with it now. I have a beer here and there, or wine with a nice meal. But that is about it. And it's not an aversion anymore, it's not a "I really hate that I am doing this, why am I doing it anyhow?" because I dealt with what I needed to and now that need to numb in order to not deal, is gone. I have nothing to escape from, so alcohol doesn't provide me that escape anymore.
Also, I read a very good article about abusive or addictive drinking (and other behaviors) being highly linked to human connection and relation. Cultivate true and real relationships and you may well find your desire to hide from the world goes away. Here is the article, it's click baity, but I promise it is worth reading.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html
Karasti thank you you're story is very inspiring.> @karasti
Just an update on my father, they have overdosed him on Ativan at the hospital, he's more aware and awake the overdose just caused more brain damage. Looking into what I can do for his best care
Truly overdosed? Not impossible, but not likely. I'd guess he had an episode of agitation, maybe violence; Ativan is typically used in such a setting and these patients are usually very closely monitored. It is very common for family members to react emotionally at the ensuing somnolence, and his wife may be in exactly this situation right now. The Ativan wears off, the patient wakes up, and the real work begins.
Next step is to let the emotions recede. This is not the fault of the doctors or nurses. Ativan is not the problem, alcohol is. You do not need to look into other medical care. You need to emotionally support his wife, as she now has the difficult task of entirely removing all alcohol from her home, from her husband, from their life. That can be overpoweringly difficult but is mandatory. Nothing less will do.
I have to agree with @Steve_B here, @Emmalou. Hospitals do not actively or deliberately overdose their patients with drugs. Has any Doctor, nurse, or qualified medical practitioner (like an anaesthetist or psychiatrist) advised you that this is what they have deliberately done? Or is it a conclusion you have come to through assumption or being told by his wife?
It's extremely difficult to separate your emotions from the practicality of the situation, but the most important and vital thing is not to make any decisions based on an emotional calculation.
Your emotions will lead you to make decisions which may be reckless and inadvisable.
There are three people here to consider:
Your father, his wife, and yourself.
At one point or another, each person will become the priority in any given situation.
Your dad will not always be the number one consideration, and neither will you, or his wife.
But in turns, in various ways, you will have to consider each step with regard to how it affects all of you.
And if any decision means you take care of Number One - that's you - first - then, so be it.
Because unless you look after, and protect yourself, first - you'll be no good to anyone else.
And I really do not see how it should ALL fall on your shoulders, either.
His wife has chosen to be his wife.
She is, I would presume, considerably older than you.
If your father has had an alcohol problem for some time, then she has been aware of it.
How has she dealt with it up to now?
She's a grown-up, adult woman.
She's not a helpless wimp with no mind of her own.
You should consider joining forces with her, and both attending Al-Anon, and working arm-in-arm to deal with this issue.
Is that a workable thing?
Because you cannot adopt the role of 'nannying' them, if there are circumstances where they should be taking responsibility themselves for some of the things happening....
You can be their support. But not their conscience.
It was an overdose, the doctor confirmed it the next day. It was not intentional. I do talk to the nurses, he is getting releasedown from the hospital, and going to rehab, he may never be the same, and I have came to terms wit has it, and do the best i can. I have not had a drink in 2 days, and decided to deal with these emotions head on, with the purest mind set. I was not meaning to come off irrational with the nurses overdosing him on Ativan, I was just scared and like I said I know they didn't intend to, they didn't know it would have the consequences. For now I'm taken things more seriously, and I will still love my father like I always have it would not want to add any stress and treat him any differntly, because of his new condition.
They just got married in October it was sudden I love her very much, and I don't mind being there for her, it makes me happy to bring her some comfort and peace of mind, and sense I can't go up there she has been there for my father and I'm so thankful for that, yes my dad has been an alcoholic, but he is an amazing man, he drank for reasons idk, but I will stand by them and do my best i have learned to step back and take care of myself when it gets to painful, when I wrote this is just found out about my dad pretty much, and I was falling apart. I've had time to digest this, and accept it no matter what.
She's is an adult, and one of the strongest women I've ever met. She has an amazing background of survival, Federica one should always be kind through ones suffering, I don't think name calling is appropriate for this discussion group.
I wasn't name-calling. I was saying exactly the opposite. I was saying what she isn't. She can't be, to have survived this. That's why I suggested joining forces. 1 strong woman is formidable.
2 strong women, are invincible.
Reading it again, I fully see why you would have naturally thought I was name-calling.
I honestly wasn't.
I will admit I maybe more fragile as of lately with this, I'm working through new emotions I've never felt before. I thank you for seeing it through my eyes, I do think at times I'm being to weak with this situation, and become defensive, and in that I apologize for chomping at the bit.
You don't have to apologize. This is a very emotional situation, and you are among friends here. You love your father very much. Love is the strongest (and best) emotion, so being emotional right now is perfectly natural.
But your father does need help. If he could solve this himself, without help, he would have, long ago. He will need a network around him, participating, coordinating, helping. And the help exists. It doesn't appear on the doorstep, though; you have to go get it, and you have to manage it, continuously. And "you" might not be YOU. But I suspect it will take all of you, however many of you who can, to participate.
You will encounter people -- perhaps you already have -- who will feel he should pick himself up by the bootstraps and solve this himself. Not only is this inappropriately judgmental, it is also tactically quite wrong. The reality is, it takes a village. Forget about assigning blame. Blaming your father, blaming the health care system, blaming life on planet Earth, it's all irrelevant, though unfortunately there will be people who believe otherwise. Instead, investigate the path toward health, plan the steps, and get help in getting all the steps overseen and implemented. It will be a long path, so take a breath, take breaks, get other help involved.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My family on my dad's side of course
That last comment for some reason got a little messed up
And the one before it, I'm still trying to get used to this site lol
I personally have found having family and friends to be highly overated, and extemely impermanant.
The Buddha left his behind.
In Luke 14: 25-27 Jesus is said to have preached leaving behind ones family.
Has anyone ever watched on youtube a Tibetan Sky Burial.
The family brings out the dead to a Temple high in the mountains.
The corpse is hacked apart by monks with machetes and clevers.
The body parts are thrown to gathering vultures and devoured.
Is it more noble for the body to end up as high altitude vulture crap, or buried worm poop ?
@ExNihilo, It is noble to have developed detachment from worldly matters, and not crave or cling to ephemeral ideals.
It is also respectful and dignified to consider that others may not currently view things in your way, and understand that such connections mean a great deal to them.
Skilful dialogue contains both respect and understanding.
If it were legal in this country to have sky burials, I'd have one. We have other options available to us.
What's your point?
All about you is it still?
Read and appreciate the context of this thread. Start behaving like a dharma family member and good companion.
Oh hi and welcome. Look forward to cutting you up (why wait) ... Pah! These ultra-spirituals ... really ...
... Normal service is now resumed ...
Do darhma families have black sheep?
Cut away lobster.
Oh these sympathy threads.
Paaaaalease.
We could let the OPs experience be a lesson in the value of detachment.
Mom Dad?
What do we really owe them.
Egg sperm, thanks for the body.
But our undeveloped buddha nature, our mind.
For that we owe them nothing.
Sympathy can be found in the dictionary in between sh+t and syphylis. I think its a useless egotistical emotion.
Does the Lotus Sutra teach sympathy?
I believe it teaches empathy.
Doesnt it teach us to empathize with all sentient beings equally.
How can we do that when we are so caught up in our little click of family and friends.
I Ithink thats why buddha left his family and turned his back on them.
I think it is what Christ was talking about in Luke Chapter 14.
I do empathize with the OP.
Having to deal with dying loved ones is a royal pain in the neck.
Modern medicine can keep them lingering for months to the point were when they do die its a relief.
Look what it is doing to the OP.
Maybe she should detach from it somewhat.
Get back to her practice.
Stop drinking.
Do some charity work.
You still live up to your responsibilties concerning your parents but I wouldnt invest to much grief in them.
To @ExNihilo: No, Buddha did not 'turn his back on his family.' Sure - he left, but he did return - not permanently of course. His dad was the only one who was in a bit of shock and bent out of shape, because naturally, he wanted Gautama to follow in his footsteps. Gautama was already a well-rounded individual - he wasn't some anxt-ridden teenager who ran away from home or something like that. I say how about you read - with empathy - Master TNH's biography on the Buddha - Old Path White Clouds - it will help you bone up on his life. And you could've provided advice and opinion with a bit less of the snark. (I like snark, but it's just like anything else - it can be overdone.)
You are right silver.
I was wrong to say he turned his back.
He cared about them as he did all sentient beings.
No more no less.
As I said before having friends and family is highly overated.
They can get in the way of realizing buddha nature.
Why care more about a sick father than you do about a third world child sick from dysentary because there is no clean drinking water?
@Emmalou I'm sorry that you're going through a rough time. I've been in recovery from alcoholism for about 7.5 years, I know that it is a difficult thing. I also lost my dad while I was struggling with alcoholism. From my experience, I can honestly say that the alcohol did not make things easier. It masks your feelings and they will continue to come back until you face them head on.
A support system is very important. Your fiancée is good, but, sometimes you need someone who is not personally involved with the situation. AA is a good place for that, for some. I had issues with AA, but, I stuck it out for the earlier years of my recovery. I also found that it is important to make your home a safe environment, free of the substance that is challenging you.
Feel free to contact me if you think it would help. Otherwise, I would say to set aside some extra time for meditation. It will give you some quiet time to help you process things; but, in the same breath, I wouldn't give yourself too much time. Embrace a hobby, do volunteer work, keep yourself occupied so you don't begin to obsess. Exercise is a great tool as well, it helps me work through the frustration and clear my head.
I hope what I said was helpful. I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts.
@ExNihilo your view on renunciation is dangerously close to being more nihilistic rather than Buddhist. As you practice, your attachment to things and people falls away. But your love for them does not. One does not have to have the sort of unhealthy attachment we often do in order to have relationships with people. And not everyone is even at that place. Why denigrate their very important relationships by saying it's highly overrated? Being averse to things is just as "bad" as being attached to them. Pushing away is as bad as clinging. Pushing away is not the type of renunciation that Buddhism advocates.
In such cases the closer the person, the more the personal effect.
We can care about the child - that's why we give to charities.
But care doesn't mean love.
And love is not a pointless or futile emotion.
We ain't Buddhas. Yet.
Not all attachments are wrong or misguided....
It think the term 'overrated', is probably a little extreme.
Frankly, no matter how YOU feel about your family, you need to realise - and respect - that the vast majority of members here - and other people too - have a deep regard and affection for their nearest and dearest....
You may be of the opinion that having friends and family is 'overrated', but it's just your opinion. It's not a given fact....
And it's 'overrated' and 'dysentery'.
Just to help....
Well fine frederica. I empathize with your feelings concerning your "nearest and dearest".
I do understand.
But I also firmly believe that as long as you remain attached to the ldea of having "nearest and dearest" you are making it virtually impossible to realize buddha nature.
Your spinning your wheels.
All sentient beings should be your nearest and dearest.
Equally.
Not putting any above the rest.
That is the middle path.
That is what I took from the Lotus Sutra.
I aint playin around with the darhma.
Im serious.
That is a practice though, @ExNihilo. You don't just will it to happen and decide logically this is how it will go. It takes much practice to begin to look at other people that way, and the way most of us start is by taking our feelings for those closest to us and using that as a jumping off point to start expanding it outwards. I don't think most people here are "playing around" with Dharma. But everyone is in a different spot. And to someone brand new it sounds pretty scary to think you might somehow be asked to let go of the things and people so important to you. That is part of the reason people run away from Buddhism is because of misunderstandings like that that are brought on by poor explanations of very complex ideas and teachings.
It's federica, thanks...
Somehow, I doubt that.
Actually? I don't think you do.....
So you're saying HH the Dalai Lama is going to find it 'virtually impossible to realise Buddha Nature'...?
He has a great deal of love for his family members.
As do I for mine.
That does not indicate an excessive amount of attachment. It indicates a decent amount of connection and affection.
I think you misunderstand the term attachment.
Simply because one practises detachment, does not mean the cancellation or absence of feelings.
You need to examine this in greater detail, because I believe your ideology to be flawed....
~you're~
Where does it say this?
Could you cite your source and give sutta reference, please?
Because the Buddha taught householders something different to what he taught Monks....
I think you need to 're-take' because I don't think the Lotus sutra says that having nearest and dearest is incorrect.
Wow.
Suddenly, I feel so small and inadequate... ~Rolleyes~
(And it's 'ain't' and 'Dharma'. If you're not going to play around with the Dharma, you could at least spell it correctly...)
The Dali Lama can do this now.
And I doubt his love for people is as you described.
I dont think he puts anyone ahead of anyone.
At first though no.
He was taken away as child from friends and family.
I think you have to make a decision at some point.
Am I serious about the darhma.
Am I willing to cut ties to do away with family and friends who get in the way of my practice.
Who dont understand and ridicule and distract.
Am I willing to dedicate myself to the complete mindful discipline that is required to go down this path.
That is what buddha did.
He left everything.
Im sick of stopping and starting.
I think if you are serious about realizing your buddha nature at some point you have to seriously detach from it all.
A true buddha at first in the beginning agrees to be alone with themselves.
@ExNihilo I'm confused on how, of all the teaching in the Lotus Sutra, you came away with just that. The entire point of the discussion on beings being equal is in regards to them being equally able to attain enlightenment, that all beings contain Buddhanature equally. That is what the equality was about. The Lotus Sutra has 3 main points, though there are many stories and teachings within those points. They are discussed in summary all over the internet. Those being that 1. All vehicles are really one vehicle, all paths will lead to Buddhahood. 2. That all beings are equally able to become Buddhas and possess Buddhanature. And 3. that you need more than logic and intellect to comprehend these teachings. That you need a sort of faith that allows them to experience something that is not possible to explain in words. This is part of what makes it possible for non-monastics to attain Buddhahood.
The bottom line is, the Lotus Sutra is a large, complex and very vast teaching. It could take a very long time for even the most practiced Buddhist to fully grasp it. Have you looked online or on youtube to see what Buddhist teachers, monks, scholars and others have to say about it to see if what you believe it says matches all the vast years of study and experience say it means? Or are you just running about half-cocked with your own idea of what it means without verifying anything? I am not a Lotus Sutra scholar, but we do discuss it frequently in my Sangha and your take away is not remotely close to anything we have discussed in summary about that teaching.
Perhaps you could point to the chapter at least that you feel matches what you said?
The Dalai Lama's family came to live with him in Dharamsala. I hardly think that constitutes 'cutting ties', do you?
What you intend with regard to cutting ties with your family is both unnecessary and uncalled for. I would have some thought for what they might feel and wish.
To do as you seem to intend is cold, calculating and frankly, cruel. Hardly the attributes to someone who follows the Dhamma as closely as you claim....
And believe it or not, there are other teachings aside from the Lotus Sutra.
That is a Mahayana Tradition teaching.
Other schools may approach things differently.
That doesn't make either one right or wrong, nor better or worse than the other.
Whatever floats your boat.
May not be what floats another's boat.
Again though, that doesn't make you better than anyone else, which is what you are implying.
I agree it takes a long time to fully grasp something as complex as the lotus sutra.
But it seems to me that if you are to walk through this world as one with everyone you first need and truly seek your buddha nature for the benefit of all sentient beings you have to detach from putting family and friends first.
You start by yourself.
It seems like incredibly hard work to realize this mindful jewel of buddha nature.
To be a practicing buddhist on this path among the world I think you should do away with nearests and dearests.
You begin by looking at yourself alone.
Not so. Quite the opposite.
You need to permit yourself to be utterly consumed by love and Compassion. This is what Wisdom and skill take you through. To recklessly abandon the closeness with those you love is misguided and unskilful.
Yes. but you don't end with yourself.
You embrace others into the mix....
I don't believe you have realised it. I think you are in error....
Why? The Buddha didn't...
He ordained his son and other members of his family...
But you don't stick with that.
You're not getting this, are you?
But it is exactly that line of thinking that the Buddha is saying isn't necessary. For monks it is, to an extent (though still not quite the way you explain it as they are often still very close to their parents and siblings and their teachers). Laypeople can also become Buddhas, and have the same intrinsic nature as anyone else. It would hardly be skillful for someone to do away with their children in today's world in order to focus on themselves. Or their ailing parents. Or their partner. Your idea that you cannot practice Buddhism without doing so is incorrect.
If you were to go ask pretty much any teacher if your view is correct the way you have worded it here, you would be met with a resounding no.
@ExNihilo said "Am I willing to cut ties to do away with family and friends who get in the way of my practice.
Who dont understand and ridicule and distract.
Am I willing to dedicate myself to the complete mindful discipline that is required to go down this path.
That is what buddha did.
He left everything."
Buddha did leave to seek. He didn't leave to get away from fam/friends. There was nothing in the biography to say that the Buddha felt anyone at all was getting in the way of his practice....he hadn't even developed this 'practice'. There was no dark purpose or broodings about his family and friends...that was not the cause of his leaving. I strongly suggest you read the book I mentioned and anything else you can get your hands on to clear up your misunderstandings. Seriously.
Those of us practicing dharma, studying the dharma, developing compassion and discernment and practicing meditation are very able to understand the nature of ignorance. We have some sympathy for those who are unable to understand or practice courtesy, respect for others feelings and limitations. Thank you for illustating the benefits of being human before going on to anything more developed ...
... and now back to basics ...
Have I just been insulted.
So Im wrong huh.
Are you saying Im going to end up with egg on my karma.
I talking about true enlightment.
Not protestant salvation.
You cant just punch in on sunday morning wave your hands in the air and claim salvation.
What the buddha was talking about was much harder.
I dont mean to be rude but Ive heard from your kind before.
You dont want to hear about the incredible hard work involved.
The extreme commitment.
You want to hang out in your coffee clotch sangha and engage in mental masturbation.
You label. But you are so far off track.
And you are wrong.
It started from nothing, but it didnt explode.
It expanded into everything.
If you think you can realize buddha nature by hanging out with your friends or doing popcorn and movie night with your family I just have to disagree.
I think this may have gotten a bit off track. How about we focus on your community member that is having an issue.