Feeling (un)sure of myself
adamcrossley
VeteranUK Veteran
Hello all,
So a recent trend in my meditation has been a niggling, sometimes thundering doubt that I don’t know what I’m doing. This voice says things like:
“I’m not doing the right practice. Breath-focus is a basic technique and I should have moved on by now.” (FYI, I do do other practices from time to time.)
“I’m terrible at meditation. What good is it doing me or anyone, if I can’t even do it properly?”
“I’m not spending long enough doing this each day.”
And so on, all within a mind that has become quite prone to meditative dullness recently.
Has anybody else experienced periods of disillusionment with meditation? Did you overcome them?
It strikes me as perfectly ironic that being so unsure of myself, is actually a sign that I’m sure of my [space] self. I’m sure that these doubts are “mine”, sure that my meditative progress is part of “me”. Do you know what I mean?
Comments
Are you experiencing a space as yourself? Answer that and i will know better what you mean.
Before, after and during.
No need.
http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english_14.php
Long live/die meditation. Hail Buddha. Sangha for president ... [lobster rants off into the sunset]
Hell yes.
I still meditate but use different methods depending on the mood/day/setting. I don't think it is about overcoming them (thoughts) but understanding them.
Sure do. These kinds of thoughts are exactly what you need to learn how to deal with these kinds of thoughts as well as the thought process you use.
Just remember you are not your thoughts. The thoughts are your tools, not the other way around.
Also returning to the breath/now is not supposed to be a punishment but a new opportunity.
Just wait...it will pass
Our mind segregates thoughts the same way our stomach segregates gastric juices.
You don't need to pay attention to everything.
Most is papanca.
Eventually, the more you keep bringing your attention back to your breath, the less you'll "hear" your mind.
??
When I flunked out of a Zen monastery, it depressed the hell out of me. My sky-high aspirations were more full of poop than a Christmas turkey. I was a lousy student.
Looking back now, I see the adventure as one of the most important and affirming of whatever Zen practice later evolved. A first-class blessing for which I say a daily thank-you.
What person in his/her right mind would imagine that sitting still and straight on a meditation cushion could achieve a happier lifestyle? That's nuts, right?
Yes. It's nuts.
Do it anyway.
Yes
As mentioned, uncertainty (not morbid anxiety) is to be expected ... Plan iz ...
@adamcrossley
I recently went through a period where I was falling asleep almost as soon as I started my session. It became such a mental game after a few times in a row where I was unsure if I'd even ever be able to meditate again! Actually I was quite depressed during this time.
It doesn't seem to matter how many teachers you hear say its gonna happen, you think it won't. And when it does you scour the books trying to find the solution, the trick. I found myself looking at every other possible obstruction before I came to look within my own self!
I started to pay especial attention to.my eating habits, as I've noticed when my Self runs away with myself I tend to gorge on sugar and shit food. I also payed attention to my reactions when I was angry or sad or overwhelmed with joy. I started to see how myself was Selfing and sure as shit I realized that I was not happy with my own effort in my practice outside of sitting and what made it worse was I believed my own thoughts! It felt like the weight of the world was lifted and I could finally just get on with the day.
Everyone on this site has come across the same issues in meditation and/or life, however its the way YOU manifest when they arise that's different, so by looking inward you might find the answer was there all along!
Hope this helps, this practice seems to be full of ups and downs but I think if I can always keep in mind the emptiness of thoughts the ups and downs may eventually even out.
Welcome to NewBuddhist @ChromeYellow
A certain Lama had this effect on me. I can only put it down to an extreme calming field. No matter what I did, I relaxed into sleep. Some time later the same Lama was falling asleep, easy to tell ... head drifted forward to floor ...
One solution is changing to walking meditation for awhile.
Back to the OP (Original Poster) ...
Tee hee.
'Improper meditation' is the whole of my practice ...
https://thenone.org/zen-practice/what-is-doubting-meditation/
Ay caramba!
You can ignore that voice. I think my teacher had referred to it (voice) as "the voice of lordly judgement". And that voice you can ignore. Maybe that voice is an example of an 'appearance' that can have sway over us as in the passage below?
I'm unsure about the dullness though. I have dullness too.
For sure.
The thing is .. you are approaching meditation as a "goal", as something you accomplish.
If, instead, you pay more attention to the process, to your experience, you will not spend so much time evaluating how well you are approaching the goal.
Understand that our habits of a lifetime (of lifetimes, perhaps), are not changed overnight. And evertime you pull yourself BACK to your meditation, from one distraction or another, you are slowly creating the habit OF meditating.
Pema Chodron (a Western Buddhist nun, trained in the Tibetan traditions), says that even after 35 years of practice she has trouble meditating.
Just remember .. Buddhism is not a goal . .it is a process.
Process is a helpful insight.
here are two mantras, not so different ...
IAM MEDI TAT IN'
YAM KNOT MEDI TATIN'
AY CARAMBA!
I think a truly zen attitude is this one - why I love Zen
Got it!
... I mean I got it in a detached sort of way ... My thoughts are my most prized possession - yep worthless ... who wants to be possessed ...
Meditation, it ain't what you think. Tee hee. My mind, is not my mind or if it is ... I don't want the contents ... Thanks @David useful reminder, well expressed.
Just checking back in. Thank you for the supportive comments. The dullness has begun to clear up now. I still doubt that I’m a “good” meditator, but mostly I know that that concept is a load of rubbish.
It’s hard for me not to approach meditation as a goal, I think. There are textbooks and teachers for it, people are “better” or at least more experienced at it, there are pitfalls, and for all the talk of beginner’s mind, there are beginners’ mistakes.
And I guess this is one of the founding questions of Zen (and other) practice, and I’ve read it’s what drove Dogen to travel to China: If awakening is our natural state, always available to us, if enlightenment could happen at any moment, then why practise at all?
What a question...
Once upon a time there was a little bird who refused to fly south for the winter. His friends tried every argument they could think of, but the little bird was adamant: He wasn't going! After a while, his friends gave up and headed south as winter approached.
Bit by bit, the weather got colder. After a while, the little bird decided he might have made a mistake: He could freeze to death. So, belatedly, he took off for the south. But the weather had turned and as he flew, the ice and snow clung to his wings and he grew more and more tired. Finally, sensing he could go no further, the little bird gave up and let himself fall to the earth, sure he would die.
As it happened, the little bird fell to earth in a cow pasture and as he lay there waiting for the cold to end it all, a passing cow crapped all over him. The manure warmed and thawed his wings. He was saved! He was also so happy not to die that he began to sing. A passing barn cat heard the singing, cleared away the manure, found the little bird, and promptly ate him.
There are three morals to this story:
1. Not everyone who shits on you is necessarily your enemy.
2. Not everyone who gets you out of the shit is necessarily your friend
and
3. If you're happy in your own pile of shit, keep your mouth shut.
Not sure if it is, but this story seemed somehow relevant ....
So we are aware, when present ...
@adamcrossley, when you become aware of the "voice" you are being mindful,... and that is exactly what you are trying to achieve. Keep up the good work