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Grasping and rejecting

misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a HinduIndia Veteran
edited March 20 in Buddhism Basics

What exactly is meant by grasping and rejecting, when in the teachings we see things written like - mind grasping at phenomena is mind in birth and death. mind not grasping at phenomena is mind in suchness.

Is it something like when I see a chair in my house, then I say that - It is a chair - is this grasping (as I call it as a chair and not as a table)? Or saying - It is my chair - is this grasping?

Comments

  • KundoKundo Veteran Sydney, Australia Veteran

    Seriously?

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited March 20

    @Kundo said:
    Seriously?

    Yes. Also how can a lay person living a family life become free from grasping? And can a lay person live a family life after becoming free from grasping?

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:

    Nutshell answers....

    Yes. Also how can a lay person living a family life become free from grasping?

    Yes

    And can a lay person live a family life after becoming free from grasping?

    Yes

    .....And how this is done..... is up to YOU to find out :) through experiential understanding...

    This is one reason why the Buddha taught that attachment to the self-idea is the root cause of all suffering. He summed it up very briefly by saying: "Things, if clung to, are suffering, or are a source of suffering." This attachment is the source and basis of life; at the same time it is the source and basis of suffering in all its forms. It was this very fact that the Buddha was referring to when he said that life is suffering; suffering is life. This means the body and mind (five aggregates) which are clung to are suffering. Knowledge of the source and basis of life and of suffering is to be considered the most profound and most penetrating knowledge, since it puts us in a position to eliminate suffering completely.

    misecmisc1Kundo
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It's quite clear that after all the time you have been a member (8 years) and after all the threads you have created, and all the questions you have asked, and all the responses you have received - you haven't really grasped anything.

    Kundolobster
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Here - Read, mark and inwardly digest.
    Then, go away and practice.

    Kundo
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran Veteran
    edited March 20

    You have to find in your own experience what grasping is. You start with a vague idea and then presumably because your own mind has by nature clarity and sensitivity you can work on that rough idea what grasping is. So first step is to find it in your own experience. Nobody can do that for you.

    Also presumably nobody on this forum has a perfect unshakeable understanding what grasping is but we have over time tried to improve from whatever vague initial idea we had to start out with.

    Are you doing regular (consistent) meditation?

    federicapersonShoshin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Jeffrey said:... Are you doing regular (consistent) meditation?

    I can answer that.

    No.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran Veteran

    The basic practice is to start with something. Start small and follow through doing whatever you say you will do.

    Then keep doing it. Whatever it is.

    If you stop your practice then reassess and start over again.

    Keep starting over again and again and keep reassessing.

    It's similar to when you forget about the breath or whatever method in meditation. You just come back to it and start again.

    personmisecmisc1
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited March 21

    @Jeffrey said:
    Are you doing regular (consistent) meditation?

    Well, after my last job ended in Nov last year, after that I did a 10-day vipassna Goenka retreat and in the last 2 months, my sitting had been on and off, but not daily, sometimes in morning and sometimes in evening. For the last 1 week, I think I sat daily at least once or may be both afternoon and evening - mornings I have not been able to sit, because of my laziness of not getting up earlier in the morning.

    Coming back to the first question in this thread -

    Is it something like when I see a chair in my house, then I say that - It is a chair - is this grasping (as I call it as a chair and not as a table)? Or saying - It is my chair - is this grasping?

    In addition to the above question, is both calling as a chair and my chair are grasping?

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran Veteran
    edited March 21

    So on the question with the chair. Are you asking if naming things and going by conventional names is an example of grasping? Like everything has a name: chair or table and so forth?

    I don't think so because that is the nature of having 'language'. Language is actually very great. Imagine trying to teach any skill without language. How would a tribe teach hunting and tanning hides if they had no language? Wouldn't it be that much harder to teach dharma without describing and naming things?

    I think where it could be grasping is if you don't understand that language labels things and is a useful tool to be more efficient in communicating.

    Is this not so?

    If you say "this is my chair". What are you feeling there? Are you angry that someone could take your chair from you? Or are you clarifying to someone that it is your chair that you are responsible for and has been your belonging you either purchased or were given.

    misecmisc1
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited March 21

    Off the topic of this thread, I wish all of you a very happy Holi.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran Veteran
    edited March 21

    happy Holi. It falls on a full moon equinox this year. Is Holi always the same time of year (equinox 21st?). Or is it always the full moon of March? I hear people wear bright colors.

    adamcrossley
  • adamcrossleyadamcrossley Veteran Veteran
    edited March 22

    @Jeffrey said:
    happy Holi. It falls on a full moon equinox this year. Is Holi always the same time of year (equinox 21st?). Or is it always the full moon of March? I hear people wear bright colors.

    The equinox is determined by the Sun I think, and our relation to it. Not sure about Holi.

    On the day of an equinox, daytime and nighttime are of approximately equal duration all over the planet.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

    O.o

    Also, I think @Jeffrey has the right understanding. It’s not the verbal act of naming something; it’s the mental act of making an assumption about it, or placing expectations on it.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the void Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:
    Well, after my last job ended in Nov last year, after that I did a 10-day vipassna Goenka retreat and in the last 2 months, my sitting had been on and off, but not daily, sometimes in morning and sometimes in evening. For the last 1 week, I think I sat daily at least once or may be both afternoon and evening - mornings I have not been able to sit, because of my laziness of not getting up earlier in the morning.

    How did the retreat go? Did you gain any experience that can help bring your practice into your daily life?

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    @person said:

    @misecmisc1 said:
    Well, after my last job ended in Nov last year, after that I did a 10-day vipassna Goenka retreat and in the last 2 months, my sitting had been on and off, but not daily, sometimes in morning and sometimes in evening. For the last 1 week, I think I sat daily at least once or may be both afternoon and evening - mornings I have not been able to sit, because of my laziness of not getting up earlier in the morning.

    How did the retreat go? Did you gain any experience that can help bring your practice into your daily life?

    Well on an overall level for me, the retreat was interesting. It was mainly to do with sitting meditation, but I actually did not followed the instructions, rather I was trying to sit in zazen, but I got the overall idea of what is the technique of doing Goenka vipassana insight meditation, though I did not followed it during that retreat nor after that retreat. Currently I try to sit in zazen as per Dogen's Fukanzazengi's instructions.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran Veteran

    CONTROL OVER APPEARANCES
    Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamsto Rinpoche
    .
    "Student: Why does it seem like everybody's somewhat under the control of appearances, instead of controlling the appearances?
    .
    KTGR: Actually, having control over appearances does not mean jumping off buildings and flying. Rather, it means that you do not cling to appearances as they seem to be in the usual worldly way of relating to them. Such appearances will not cause you suffering or tie you up once you have gained mastery over them through not clinging.
    .
    It is prajna realizing selflessness that frees you from samsara. Through knowing appearances to be inseparable from emptiness, you have mastery over them. It is not necessary to engage in behavior that is contrary to a mundane way of seeing things."

    misecmisc1Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Grasping and rejecting

    They are the two sides of the same coin....

    In other words to perform one action eg grasping means that one is having to reject something else and if one is rejecting something, one is grasping something else...

    You can't have one without the other...So by accepting neither, one is blending both options...well something like that.. :)

    lobstermisecmisc1
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran Veteran
    edited March 27

    @misecmisc1 said:
    Is it something like when I see a chair in my house, then I say that - It is a chair - is this grasping (as I call it as a chair and not as a table)? Or saying - It is my chair - is this grasping?

    If you don't objectify a chair ie. "chair is empty" then claiming that the so-called 'chair' to be yours makes no sense. You are referring to a non-existent thing. That also includes 'living beings'.

    You cannot grasp emptiness - similar to grasping water or sand.

    Both subject and object are empty.

    By whom was this living being created?
    Where is the living being's maker?
    Where has the living being originated?
    Where does the living being
    cease?

    What? Do you assume a 'living being,' Mara?
    Do you take a position?
    This is purely a pile of fabrications.
    Here no living being
    can be pinned down.

    Just as when, with an assemblage of parts,
    there's the word,
    chariot,
    even so when aggregates are present,
    there's the convention of
    living being.

    For only stress is what comes to be;
    stress, what remains & falls away.
    Nothing but stress comes to be.
    Nothing ceases but stress.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.010.than.html

    misecmisc1
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