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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said: So maybe like an awareness of death, an awareness of suffering works in the same way? There is a healthy form and an unhealthy one? Thinking on what could be the ingredient that distinguishes the two might be the ability to let go of attachments or identities?
@Kerome said: Perhaps so. I’m not sure whether letting go is the right response to suffering. Certainly letting go of the things you cling to can be beneficial, but there is also something to be said for working through things, as if the right kind of work repairs the sources of suffering.
@Kerome I think you're missing the point again, or misunderstanding matters... When we say letting go of suffering, we don't mean abandoning the whole thing, throwing your hands up and not dealing with the issue, and just letting things carry on unchanged.
What is meant by letting go of suffering, is facing the issue head on, doing the right thing, resolving matters as best as possible to the mutual benefit of all concerned wherever possible, but not attaching feelings of resentment, desire or vindication/revenge.
We do our best to bring about a favourable outcome, follow the right procedures, then while this is all happening, and afterwards, accepting the whole episode and result philosophically, without rancour or gloating, and permit it to pass.
.... I certainly think the Buddha very thoroughly examined the causes of suffering but didn’t spend nearly so much time on the causes of happiness. There are a lot of small pleasures in life, but the larger sources of happiness are mostly unexamined.
Yes, because they need no explanation. Think about it, what's the point of examining and pointing out something is shiny and glittering, when we already know it's shiny and glittering?
We know what causes us happiness. It basically means avoiding or missing out on the causes of pain, in all ways describable.
Happiness means we have a smile on our face, and is relative. A tramp may find a new pair of shoes brings him happiness, while that multi-billionaire is happy with the new yacht he just bought.
Happiness, like everything else, is a flexible, fluctuating, fleeting cut-and-come-again perception...
Just like Suffering, in fact...
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@federica said:
What is meant by letting go of suffering, is facing the issue head on, doing the right thing, resolving matters as best as possible to the mutual benefit of all concerned wherever possible, but not attaching feelings of resentment, desire or vindication/revenge.
I understood that Fede, I was thinking about the “letting go” as a response to suffering being finding the thing that you are clinging to, that is causing your suffering, and then letting go of that. You could say that it’s always a good response, but in some cases it’s difficult to execute. When you’re moving house, and your suffering is caused by anxiety that the movers won’t be in time, you could say that that anxiety is a form of clinging to image or to money. Letting go of that is not straightforward.
.... I certainly think the Buddha very thoroughly examined the causes of suffering but didn’t spend nearly so much time on the causes of happiness. There are a lot of small pleasures in life, but the larger sources of happiness are mostly unexamined.
Yes, because they need no explanation. Think about it, what's the point of examining and pointing out something is shiny and glittering, when we already know it's shiny and glittering?
We know what causes us happiness. It basically means avoiding or missing out on the causes of pain, in all ways describable.
I’m not so sure it is that simple. Seeing a baby brings happiness. A loved one’s smile brings happiness. Being in a clean and fresh smelling place can bring happiness. Doing a job well can bring happiness. There seem to be a variety of causes of happiness.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Kerome , there are also varying degrees, and as such, definitions. As I pointed out, a level of happiness is relative to one's own perception, and what makes one person happy, may not cause happiness in another.
I for one, am not a 'baby brings happiness' subscriber. I'm sure many are happy; I neither judge nor begrudge that happiness. But it's not for me.
So to specify that certain things 'bring happiness' is a huge generalisation, just as much as it is to say that worrying about the removal guys arriving on time, is a cause of worry....
Comments
@Kerome I think you're missing the point again, or misunderstanding matters... When we say letting go of suffering, we don't mean abandoning the whole thing, throwing your hands up and not dealing with the issue, and just letting things carry on unchanged.
What is meant by letting go of suffering, is facing the issue head on, doing the right thing, resolving matters as best as possible to the mutual benefit of all concerned wherever possible, but not attaching feelings of resentment, desire or vindication/revenge.
We do our best to bring about a favourable outcome, follow the right procedures, then while this is all happening, and afterwards, accepting the whole episode and result philosophically, without rancour or gloating, and permit it to pass.
Yes, because they need no explanation. Think about it, what's the point of examining and pointing out something is shiny and glittering, when we already know it's shiny and glittering?
We know what causes us happiness. It basically means avoiding or missing out on the causes of pain, in all ways describable.
Happiness means we have a smile on our face, and is relative. A tramp may find a new pair of shoes brings him happiness, while that multi-billionaire is happy with the new yacht he just bought.
Happiness, like everything else, is a flexible, fluctuating, fleeting cut-and-come-again perception...
Just like Suffering, in fact...
I understood that Fede, I was thinking about the “letting go” as a response to suffering being finding the thing that you are clinging to, that is causing your suffering, and then letting go of that. You could say that it’s always a good response, but in some cases it’s difficult to execute. When you’re moving house, and your suffering is caused by anxiety that the movers won’t be in time, you could say that that anxiety is a form of clinging to image or to money. Letting go of that is not straightforward.
I’m not so sure it is that simple. Seeing a baby brings happiness. A loved one’s smile brings happiness. Being in a clean and fresh smelling place can bring happiness. Doing a job well can bring happiness. There seem to be a variety of causes of happiness.
@Kerome , there are also varying degrees, and as such, definitions. As I pointed out, a level of happiness is relative to one's own perception, and what makes one person happy, may not cause happiness in another.
I for one, am not a 'baby brings happiness' subscriber. I'm sure many are happy; I neither judge nor begrudge that happiness. But it's not for me.
So to specify that certain things 'bring happiness' is a huge generalisation, just as much as it is to say that worrying about the removal guys arriving on time, is a cause of worry....