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Becoming closer to the sleep-self

KeromeKerome Love, love is mysteryThe Continent Veteran

I would like to discuss a process I have observed in myself over the last couple of years, that I have been growing closer to the self I have when I’m asleep. What I mean by that is that good, solid sleep for me is something quite close to meditation: my body comes to rest, my mind quietens down, and a kind of blissfulness comes over me.

When I wake up in the morning this kind of space still hangs over me. I’m aware, my consciousness has a great deal of clarity because my mind is quiet. It’s like parts of me are still asleep, and I can enjoy the morning silence without becoming involved in any deep thoughts, just being in the here and now.

So over the months and years I have noticed an appreciation of this sleep-space coming over me, and it also seems to be lasting longer and being connected to my awareness of my dreams. Too much attention paid to dreams doesn’t seem like it helps, but being aware of the energetic subtext of dreams does seem to help in exploring these spaces.

I’m slowly becoming convinced that sleep is on some level a deeply joyful experience, that when we sleep well we generate a kind of positive energy. I’ve read that there are some links between sleep and samadhi, it’s something I would like to explore.

BunksAlex

Comments

  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    The hormones that govern sleep are the same hormones that govern your parasympathetic nervous system, and that create those feel-good endorphins after exertion ("runners' high"), sex, and other pleasurable experiences. You're onto something, OP.

    Kerome
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    A Tibetan teacher I've followed a bit over the years stated that going to sleep is a similar experience to death.

    Apparently when we die the consciousness goes back in to our heart centre.

    And if we watch closely enough at the point of sleep we should be able to feel the experience of this occurring.

    There's a challenge for you...... :)

    Kerome
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @Bunks said:
    Apparently when we die the consciousness goes back in to our heart centre.

    And if we watch closely enough at the point of sleep we should be able to feel the experience of this occurring.

    There's a challenge for you...... :)

    Yes, that’s similar to what Osho also says about sleep, that when you sleep your consciousness returns to the centre of your being. That’s why sleep is so restorative.

    I’ll try and experiment some with the moment of sleep, certainly with dreams you can learn to remember them more clearly. But I think this movement of the consciousness returning is more interesting.

    BunksAlex
  • AlexAlex UK Veteran

    I’ve read some Osho recently. A couple of books. Very insightful stuff. He cuts through the fripperies and gets to the heart of things. Not as mad as I thought he was ! In fact, I’m starting to wonder whether he had things rather right.

    BunkslobsterKerome
  • Not as mad as I thought he was!

    Activities speak better than zzz ...
    Think again.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-crazy-sex-cult-that-invaded-oregon

    and here is a genuine falsity ...

    Alex
  • AlexAlex UK Veteran

    @lobster Thanks Lobster ! I’m fully aware of the Osho story - if one reads some of his later work, however, it is fascinating. Direct, insightful and resonant. I believe that in his latter years, he adopted Zen and it’s probably those writings that chime with me, as it’s the path I follow.

    Re the film.....crazy. I love it ! 😂

    Kerome
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Lies become Truth, Truth reverts to Lies. Where fact and fiction overlap, Wonderment can nest and grow... Do you nourish or neglect it?

    Aye, there's the rub...

    lobster
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited February 13

    @Alex said:
    I’m fully aware of the Osho story - if one reads some of his later work, however, it is fascinating. Direct, insightful and resonant.

    I agree, he can be very lucid and can come at subjects from very original angles. I’ve found that his writings can move you towards a deeper freedom, away from all the restrictions that society tries to lay on you.

    Wild, Wild Country was in my eyes more a study of what can happen in a commune of spiritual seekers where a guru stops talking and largely withdraws. It’s a fascinating documentary which lets you make up your own mind about events back then, but it doesn’t say much about Osho’s actual teachings, its almost entirely about the commune and its outside relationships.

    Alex
  • AlexAlex UK Veteran

    Spot on @Kerome 👍

    Osho actually lost control of the commune, I think, was kept in the dark. Ignorance is no defence, I know that, but I don’t think he himself was as crackers as he’s portrayed.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    Just to return to the OP, lately I have been noticing that there is a kind of noise in my body when I meditate. Returning to the sleep state is not proving so fruitful to getting complete quiet in the body.

    Early in the morning I have complete quiet and rest, but when the afternoon comes around there is a lot more tapping and rumbling in the body. I can’t seem to recapture the restful state. It’s a kind of tingling, tapping, knocking kind of sensations.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 22

    @Kerome said:
    Just to return to the OP, lately I have been noticing that there is a kind of noise in my body when I meditate. Returning to the sleep state is not proving so fruitful to getting complete quiet in the body.

    Early in the morning I have complete quiet and rest, but when the afternoon comes around there is a lot more tapping and rumbling in the body. I can’t seem to recapture the restful state. It’s a kind of tingling, tapping, knocking kind of sensations.

    Interesting. You sound like a haunted house! But seriously, Traleg Rinpoche (now deceased, but formerly a popular lama in Australia) stopped eating almost completely for a long time, because he said the digestive process interfered with his meditation. He wasted away to almost skin and bones (you can see this in his photos on one of his centers' websites), and other lamas had to gather around him, to convince him to eat, so that he could continue his teaching career, which they said was very important, because of who he was, his background. He was close to death at the time. After that, he overdid the eating a bit, and became plump and jolly.

    Don't let such extremes happen to you, OP! Do your meditation in the morning, when you're in a peaceful state. In the afternoon, allow your body to do its work. It's keeping you alive!

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I agree @Dakini, fasting excessively is extremely detrimental to one's health as even The Buddha himself discovered... Why Traleg Rinpoche undertook such an ordeal is difficult to decipher...

    However, controlled Fasting is extremely beneficial; I am actually undertaking such Fasts at the moment, and my mood, thinking processes and rest, are actually much improved...I would recommend it.

  • @federica said:
    I agree @Dakini, fasting excessively is extremely detrimental to one's health as even The Buddha himself discovered... Why Traleg Rinpoche undertook such an ordeal is difficult to decipher...

    However, controlled Fasting is extremely beneficial; I am actually undertaking such Fasts at the moment, and my mood, thinking processes and rest, are actually much improved...I would recommend it.

    Yes, I used to do 3-day fasts, which were oddly exilirating. I'd get a high off of them. And these days, some people, especially those over 50, who have found their metabolism has slowed way down, do intermittent fasting in order to lose weight. It's where you have only 1 meal a day, more or less, or two meals closer together, so that you're going without food for around 14-16 hours. That' large gap, apparently, is what causes the body to burn fat. This was developed by a Canadian doctor, and it's caught a certain following.

    Moderation in all things, as we all know at this point, I hope...

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Well Moderation's my middle go-to, Hun! :D

    I'm currently embarked on 5 consecutive 23-and-a-half hour fasts; they should be 24-hour, but that kinda gets the timing messed up because; you either do under 24, and eat in the remaining time, or you do the full 24, and end up eating an hour later every day.
    I can (and obviously, do) drink a lot during the fast, and then have a light meal at the end, then like Michael Finnigan, begin again...

    @Kerome, this is veering O/T somewhat. Or maybe it isn't, but I'm not sure whether any of this is useful to you?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Dakini said: ... these days, some people, especially those over 50, who have found their metabolism has slowed way down, do intermittent fasting in order to lose weight. It's where you have only 1 meal a day, more or less, or two meals closer together, so that you're going without food for around 14-16 hours. That' large gap, apparently, is what causes the body to burn fat. This was developed by a Canadian doctor, and it's caught a certain following.

    Yup, that's me exactly.
    At 63, I have the perfect vital statistics, except Gravity's taken them all 6" lower...

    Bunks
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