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Much ado about Nothing

lobsterlobster Veteran
edited November 19 in General Banter


As we may know Nothing is what it seems.

However it may be less useful in Dharma Parlance than we think. Ideally we would not be hindered, hampered or harmed by thinking of nothing.

So ... Que?

For me zero, complete nada, is a mathematical term not present in ancient Buddha time. There are better, more skilful understandings, which many experience ...

  • Emptying. There we are sitting with a mindful of papañca. Full teacups, junk thinking itself into reality. I junk-thunk therefore I yam, as Descartes wittered. We are because junk is swirling through us. So the first part of Dharma is emptying the non essential ...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_proliferation

  • Focus. Oh Right. Concentration. This is tightening ideally in a relaxed way ... In practical terms; breath or bead counting, steadying awareness. Puja. Prostrations. Points for Attention.

  • Meditation. Ah ha! We think we are approaching nothingness? Ideally yes. In reality we are witnessing the emptying ...

Will we ever be nill nothing? Really? How is that working out for you?

Personally I am junk 👤

David

Comments

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    @lobster

    Today, "nothing" sounds like the image in a mirror that shows the reflected photons of everything else while having no measurable substance of its own. No..wait..that's my tinnitus.

    Sometimes, "nothing's" main Dharmic usefulness is as a counterpoint to the delusional solidity that our identities seem to be constantly trying to manufacture out of realities fluidity.

    Shoshin1lobster
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    How lovely, peans of praise for the uses of nothingness. When you have let go of everything, what is left? Will you ever let go of everything, or will you find that you have been grasping things as quickly as you were letting them go?

    I once came across something in my inner space that was a ball of nothing. I looked within it and found myself in emptiness. Then I was back in my body. It was a momentary glimpse of nothingness, quite beautiful.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @lobster said:
    Personally I am junk 👤

    But I am sure it is charming junk, as @shoshin1 likes to say the mind being charmed by its own thoughts and so we continue to obsess over our own junk. Therefore we never get around to emptying the mind. So stopping being charmed is the first step.

    Then, is it ever more than a continual stream of creation, papanca, and emptying, like a fountain’s waters continually being spewed up and then disappearing again? The second step has to be stopping the proliferation, the fountain of ideas, only then can emptying take place.

    Just a few notes...

    lobsterDavid
  • GuiGui Veteran
    edited November 21

    Will we ever be nothing? I don't think so but we can be no thing.

    howShoshin1David
  • Being charmed by our papanca, emotional states, preferred state of being etc is not The Way. Rather it is the stillness, the pause for attention without indulgence that is the Middle Way.

    The second step has to be stopping the proliferation, the fountain of ideas, only then can emptying take place.

    B)

    David
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited November 24

    @lobster said:

    As we may know Nothing is what it seems.

    However it may be less useful in Dharma Parlance than we think. Ideally we would not be hindered, hampered or harmed by thinking of nothing.

    So ... Que?

    Using the term "nothing" only really makes sense to me if I follow it with "in particular". I see my interconnectedness with everything when I identify as "nothing in particular".

    Ymmv, of course.

    For me zero, complete nada, is a mathematical term not present in ancient Buddha time. There are better, more skilful understandings, which many experience ...

    I think it is a useful concept but only subjectively like there are no apples in my hand. The potential for apples has always been as there could never have been a time where there is no potential for apples.

    • Emptying. There we are sitting with a mindful of papañca. Full teacups, junk thinking itself into reality. I junk-thunk therefore I yam, as Descartes wittered. We are because junk is swirling through us. So the first part of Dharma is emptying the non essential ...

    To me, this is why mindful consumption is so important. We are conditional beings. We are conditioned and we condition each other as well as ourselves once we start training.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_proliferation

    • Focus. Oh Right. Concentration. This is tightening ideally in a relaxed way ... In practical terms; breath or bead counting, steadying awareness. Puja. Prostrations. Points for Attention.

    Attention
    Attention
    Attention

    • Meditation. Ah ha! We think we are approaching nothingness? Ideally yes. In reality we are witnessing the emptying ...

    To be empty is to be empty of something and the key there is be.

    Will we ever be nill nothing? Really? How is that working out for you?

    I don't see the logic in it.

    Personally I am junk 👤

    Not to me. I think you are very useful and I am very grateful that you are here. Junk describes something for which the usefulness is not apparent. That isn't you.

    Not from here, anyways.

    I've heard it said that we should have an equal measure of both compassion and wisdom. When there is confusion in this regard, the wise will always choose the possibility of erring on the side of compassion. That still holds true for the conditional individual even if (or especially if) it is a tool we use.

    lobster
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited November 24

    @lobster said:
    Being charmed by our papanca, emotional states, preferred state of being etc is not The Way. Rather it is the stillness, the pause for attention without indulgence that is the Middle Way.

    The second step has to be stopping the proliferation, the fountain of ideas, only then can emptying take place.

    B)

    To empty the cup is to make it ready to receive without bias. Once we stake a claim to a view, we are not completely open to the unfolding nature of the truth which cannot be told but that can be easily seen if we are mindful enough.

    lobster
  • When there is confusion in this regard, the wise will always choose the possibility of erring on the side of compassion.

    Exactly so.
    Wrathful compassion is too much for most of to bare. We come from unawareness/nothing and nobody avoids the Death Void.

    Whilst here we can chase wisdom (good luck with that dream), practice compassion and do good as best we can.

    Existence is fortunate ... which is just as well ...

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