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Lhasa Riots
ajani_mgo
Veteran
Hmm - I haven't heard from here about this - nothing new really, just Tibetans and their usual protest against the Chinese occupation of their homeland.
Whereas an earlier march from India by Tibet activists back home was halted by Indian troops, today I hear from the news that a riot has broken out in Lhasa, with 10 Tibetans dead. Anyway, the first thing I heard about this recent spate of incidents was that it was (as usual) in protest of Chinese occupation back home, in the context of the world's decision to allow Beijing to host the upcoming Olympics. Days ago, before any news of the initial unease, China had released a statement condemming any such actions by anyone already - it seems to me that the Chinese intelligence community should have had some inkling that this kind of thing was going to happen soon, and that statement was more of a pre-emptive gesture.
Anyway, what really amused me was this picture where the news showed the Tibetan monk throwing a stone into this shop - and that led me wondering, OK this is interesting. Whereas the Burmese protests had mostly been non-violent, this Tibetan riot was well, chaotic - and when I saw the monk chuck the stone in, I immediately thought that it was unskilful.
I have always believed that strikes should be made legal in liberal-democratic countries, but rioting was silly - it destroyed the work of oneself (or even others), creating direct wastage and destroying resources in the process, from peaceful disobedience to war.
The Dalai Lama has been accused by China for being the mastermind behind this latest incident. Personally, I don't think I like monks who throw stones.
(or at least, in this context)
Whereas an earlier march from India by Tibet activists back home was halted by Indian troops, today I hear from the news that a riot has broken out in Lhasa, with 10 Tibetans dead. Anyway, the first thing I heard about this recent spate of incidents was that it was (as usual) in protest of Chinese occupation back home, in the context of the world's decision to allow Beijing to host the upcoming Olympics. Days ago, before any news of the initial unease, China had released a statement condemming any such actions by anyone already - it seems to me that the Chinese intelligence community should have had some inkling that this kind of thing was going to happen soon, and that statement was more of a pre-emptive gesture.
Anyway, what really amused me was this picture where the news showed the Tibetan monk throwing a stone into this shop - and that led me wondering, OK this is interesting. Whereas the Burmese protests had mostly been non-violent, this Tibetan riot was well, chaotic - and when I saw the monk chuck the stone in, I immediately thought that it was unskilful.
I have always believed that strikes should be made legal in liberal-democratic countries, but rioting was silly - it destroyed the work of oneself (or even others), creating direct wastage and destroying resources in the process, from peaceful disobedience to war.
The Dalai Lama has been accused by China for being the mastermind behind this latest incident. Personally, I don't think I like monks who throw stones.
(or at least, in this context) 0
Comments
Palzang
I'd just like to add that this isn't just a local thing in Tibet. The Dharma is under attack around the world. Remember Burma? There have also been attacks here in the West - criminals who infiltrated Buddhist groups in an attempt to destroy them and steal from them, groups who have perverted the Dharma and taught false doctrines (New Kadampas anyone?). These are the dark times prophesied by both Lord Buddha and Guru Padmasambhava when the Dharma will be under attack by the forces of darkness. So it is imperative for all of us to beef up our practice and remember that the Dharma is the force of good and light in this world, that it is indestructible.
Palzang
Now, Fede, that is news!
Sadly, I don't think Singapore will be game to boycott the Olympics (not that we are some regular medal-magnet anyway! Trivia: Our last and ONLY Olympic medal was in 1960 (a Silver) for weightlifting), our Youth Olympics to be held in 2010 seems to be fairly reliant (or happy, rather) to work with China now to discuss some methods of organisation. Personally, I do support my local Youth Olympics bid now that it's officially won by us.
Even as the Chinese news agency are saying that the riots are under control, it is clear from international news feeds that it is simply spiraling into more disaster.
Our governments are unable to criticise believably, nor can we upbraid the PRC for it 'human rights violations' when we are complicit in violations ourselves.
Ajani: when it is Buddhist monks who protest, the media get all excited and express outrage. When it is Palestinians, Iraqis, etc., we condemn them. Because they are not wearing robes?
There is an interesting passage in the Christian gospels where Jesus' disciples try to stop Judaean children from getting close to him. These were the children of the "intifada" against the Roman occupation: stone-throwers, urchins, the ancestors of the ones we see on the TV today. No wonder the disciples wanted themn kept away. Jesus' comment was "This is what the Kingdom consists of - children like these". No wonder the incident has been cleaned up and presented as if the children had just come from a hot bath and a good meal!
A little poem from our friend Trungpa Rinpoche:
THE DIGNITY OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE
The sword of hatred is ornamented with the handle of invasion,
A red star has imprisoned the sun and moon,
The high snow-peaked mountains are cloaked in the darkness of a poisonous wind;
The peaceful valleys have been shattered by the sound of artillery.
But the dignity of the Tibetan people competes with the glory of the sky.
Palzang
March 2008. I am 64, my son is 17. We gather round the computer and the television. We know it is happening again. And still nobody knows what to do. Once again the bully is winning and autonomy is crushed.
Palzang
I'm doing what I can.
EDIT NOTE:
Just done the Olympics committee too...
Strong letters.....:werr:
I wouldn't yet say that they are distorting the truth now, but I think they are omitting some stuff here that leads me to think that the Tibetans are in some kind of random frenzy because of an old issue.
I saw in the broadsheets today that in Japan, they are starting an torch relay like the official Olympic's, only that this relay is for the 'alternative Olympics' to be held in Dharamsala somewhere in May - heh, how cute.
For Burma now, at least we have some promise of a Constitution, though it's still way too early to determine if the Saffron Revolution has done its job properly. The issue of Tibet now is being turned into a political issue for the Taiwanese elections - I do think that these two nations (mind you, I said 'nations') do share some kind of common vein - perhaps the new Taiwanese President would be able to talk some sense into their Chinese counterpart (if it's even likely) - presidential candidate Ma is speaking of a common market with China now, a concept much turned into a joke and abused politically by his rival Hsieh. Ma is speaking of defending Taiwan's political interests before they talk on the economic table. Yet one wonders, will China really care?
I guess the athletes could feign a 'diplomatic illness' when they reach China though, they could always blame the pollution!
Yeah right, this sounds so dead hackneyed.
-bf
BF, dear innocent friend,
Can you name me a single news medium, other than marginal ones like Peace News, which has not justified or even celebrated the slaughter of civilians? All the Western press rejoiced at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, many 'justify' Afghani and Iraqi civilian deaths as "collateral damage" leading to an assumed end.
Even the little old lady cycling innocently to go and do some shopping, or those little children on their way to school...or the young man, digging over a small piece of earth, to grow his own vegetables.... demonic, wicked evil people....
There's your justiifcation.....
Obvious, isn't it?
During my stay in 'Little Tibet', I met Tibetan opponents to HHDL's policy of 'autonomy within the hegemony'. Some were followers of Gandhi's ideas and knew that non-violent protest would, inevitably, lead to bloodshed and many deaths. Others maintained that the Tibetan people had to remember that they had a long and warrior culture. One man, a beautiful elderly refugee who had walked from Tibet with HHDL, was very angry with him: he saw the glorification of an individual, even as wonderful as Tenzin Gyatso, had made Tibetans 'quaint' (his word), like those people who dress up and refight Civil War battles, curiosities but not real. He said that Tibet was not thangkas and gompas, not even tulkus, it is a group of disparate regions which has an historical coherence as a nation, inhabited by real people who eat, sleep, give birth to children, need ordinary, peaceful daily lives. And, he added, stroking his magnificent moustaches and looking very sad, no 'great nation' has ever truly supported the aspirations of their own national minorities, "Why should we expect to be any different?" he asked.
I ask myself this question: "If I were an ordinary Tibetan, living in Lhasa, with a wife and children; if I had a small business which has recovered somewhat from the invasion; if my life was just bearable, particularly as I practise my faith - in secret, sure, but it keeps us balanced... if I managed to feed. clothe and educate my children so loong as I keep my head down (just like my friends in Normandy from '40 to '45), would I demonstrate? Or would I worry (vide my friends in Normandy) that the demos or sabotage or attacks on Han Chinese would only make things worse? And what would my faith in the words of the Buddha tell me to do? Why are there no simple answers?"
My point exactly, my friend.
-bf
Below, to give the issue some cohesion, is the letter I sent to them....
...Mind you, at least I actually received a reply - !!
Palzang
Whatever happened to the 'Olympic ideals' of pure sport? While MacDonalds might be leaning towards the thinking that the Olympics should remain an object of sport and not be converted into a platform for politics, I think the ideals of sport should be extensible beyond just itself. When has all the spirit of the Olympics been applied for Tibet? Whatever happened to the peace that the Olympics was supposed to bring the world?
Maybe the whole world should embarrass China the host by winning all the medals and leaving none for the former, or at least we hope.
Anyway, for the Taiwan thing, it sucks now - their sports executive body has criticized Ma's promise to boycott the Olympics. In fact, it seems to really have turned into another election issue now. With one side pro-boycott, the other side takes up the anti-boycott view right away to oppose and there we have it - inefficiency and sophistry. Darn, why can't they just agree?
I have just received this petition from Avaaz.org.
Sadly, even as I loathe my perceived inferiority of Chinese products, it's really sad that I cannot escape from it. Every time I turn over a product, 'Made in China' stares me in the face! Some of my favourite food, though, are 'Made in China' brands (though they now have been banned by Singapore for failing to meet up to health standards), heh.
It was never my intention to be "sanctimonious" but to suggest that we need a far more nuanced approach. His Holiness has been extremely careful, over the past 50 years, understanding that dialogue with the government of China requires great delicacy. It is also true that the western media have tended to suggest that the only solution to the oppression and genocidal activity by the PLA is that coming out of Dharamsala. There is little doubt that the personal animosity that the ruling clique maintains against the person of the Dalai Lama continues to be a real stumbling-block in this dialogue.
It is now clear, from HHDL's statements yesterday, that he is prepared to do anything, including withdrawing from any active role in the government-in-exile, to put an end to the violence. In many ways he is the true heir to Gandhiji who was prepared to die of self-starvation to end the inter-religious violence in India.
Is it "sanctimonious" to recognise that China believes (rightly or wrongly is irrelevant) that Tibet is historically part of China? Dialogue is impossible if we simply strike attitudes.
This is not about whether or not China thinks they have a legitimate claim to Tibet or "evenhandedness". This is about the murder and torture of helpless Buddhist monks and nuns. This is a Buddhist bulletin board, and this is a Buddhist issue. Killing monks and nuns is horrendous karma, both for the police and soldiers who actually do it and for the Chinese people as a whole. The reason to put a stop this behavior is not to punish the Chinese (their karma will take care of that), but to prevent them from accruing more bad karma. The best way to do this is to have a boycott of the Olympics by as many countries as possible. This will ruin China's great hopes of finally reaching par with other countries like the US and Russia (and yes, even the UK) and may - may - just convince them to change their behavior.
I agree with HH the Dalai Lama's stand, but that doesn't make it OK for the Chinese to murder protesters who are, after all, just trying to get basic human rights. To bring up Nagasaki and your other examples was not only inappropriate but, to me, offensive. For one thing, we didn't start the war with Japan (though we did finish it), and the alternative to dropping the bomb was a massive invasion that would have cost many, many more lives, both American and Japanese. So where's the comparison? These are helpless monks and nuns whose only weapons are stones and firecrackers - against assault rifles and tanks!
Here is what the Chinese thug who was recently installed as Communist Party secretary for the Tibetan "Autonomous" Region recently said:
The Communist Party is like the parent to the Tibetan people, and it is always considerate about what the children need,’ Mr. Zhang said last year. He later added: ‘The Central Party Committee is the real Buddha for Tibetans.
Can you imagine the chutzpah it takes to say that "the Central Party Committee is the real Buddha for Tibetans?"
I think most Western Buddhists just don't get what is going on in the world. Not only is China repressing Buddhists in Tibet, but India and Nepal are repressing Tibetans in their countries who are protesting what is going on in Tibet. And then there's Burma, which continues its own murderous repression under the guise of "liberalization"! If what they're doing is liberalization, I'll have none, thanks... The countries where Buddhism currently exist are mostly unstable and unsafe. Buddhism could disappear in many of these countries in a heartbeat. Does that concern you at all?
Palzang
I am sorry if I have upset you. My reference to the only use in conflict of nuclear weapons was an attempt to highlight the way in which we tend to demonise our opponents.
I can also understand - and share - your anger and distress at what is happening in Tibet. I have lost count of the number of letters, emails and other (ineffectual) protests I have sent on the topic to all and sundry, including our last two Prime Ministers.
What I am trying - badly, as so often - to share is the confusion that arises when the peaceful protesters turn to violence themselves. It does not help that I can quite understand how anger and mob mentality can lead to attacks on the Han population - but understanding does not mean that I agree with it.
This is how I understand HHDL's statement yesterday, recalling as it does similar statements by Gandhiji: the actions of the PLA and the government have been genocidal and I am ashamed of the lack-lustre response of all the great powers.
In the interests of balance, I wanted also to make it clear that HHDL's move towards a democratic system, there are voices raised from within the Tibetan community in opposition - which is just as it should be, even though some of those voices call for violence.
It breaks my heart, too, that the government of India and the state of Himachal Pradesh have failed to show the same courage as the Pandit Nehru when he welcomed the refugees 49 years ago, giving them shelter, jobs and helping build the schools.
I apologise if I have inadvertently minimised the grotesque and horrifying behaviour of the occupying Chinese.
I would like to very humbly and very respectfully disagree with you Pazang. I know that you are very angry, but what is happening in Tibet is an international humanitarian issue. I am NOT Buddhist but this does not stop me feeling enraged, bewildered and sickened.
Neither am I Muslim, but it doesn't stop me breaking my heart over the situation in Darfur.
Or are you saying that only people on this board who are Buddhists are allowed to have an opinion, that there is a Party Line to follow and anyone who doesn't shouldn't be here? Which side does that sound like, dear friend?
I come here, not from religious conviction or philosophical conviction, but to visit my Buddhist friends. As a guest I try to be respectful and to learn the acceptable way of behaving in your company.
It would be a shame if visitors like me were no longer welcome here.
In love and in search of harmony - Elise
Palzang
Seeing, on news footage, the rioting crowds in Lhasa is so distressing for me, I find it difficult to watch.
But the Dalai Lama too, has been horrified by seeing his own monks resorting to violent and retaliatory measures.
I will not utter a word of judgement against them, because I think their patience for nearly 50 years has worn so thin, it is scarcely surprising they would finally see fit to take some kind of action. ....
And whilst I understand your comment, Simon, with regard to just keeping their heads down and getting on with life, because a poor oppressive life is better than the alternative, I think it is high time something like this happened to shake the world out of its complacent torpor.
Did the Chinese really ever truly imagine these events would pass without comment?
Did they really truly believe they could contain and control such opposition without raising so much as an eyebrow?
Did they really think that hosting the Olympic Games would not force any issue out into the open?
I fully understand the Dalai Lama's 'threat', that he would stand down as Political Leader, if the violence did not stop. (A spokesman for HH the DL apparently clarified the statement by adding that he would remain as Religious leader....)
It's all kamma. It all serves a purpose.
But when an irresistible force meets an unmoveable object, something, finally, at long last, surely has to give....?
Let's join together in prayer for all the people there and not concentrate on our differences of opinion. In great love - E
http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/21.php
Palzang
In the news today there are reports the Chinese continue to pour troops into Tibet. What we have is genocide in the making.
Palzang
And I am completely disgusted with the way my adopted country has been toadying up to China in the lats two years - it will all come back and bite them in the years to come.
I agree very much that the taking of any human life is very negative karma, and that no human life is more sacred than another. However, that wasn't my point. An attack against a Buddhist nun or monk is the same as an attack against one's own buddhanature because the nun or monk is wearing the robes of the Buddha and is holding the ordination vows as taught by the Buddha. To kill another human is the same as killing oneself; to attack one's own nature in an attempt to kill it (you can't, of course) is much worse and creates the cause for immense suffering. That was my point. It's not that the life of a monk or nun is more valuable than anyone else's.
Palzang
Palzang
The problem is when they don't work - would it be skilful to fixate ourselves on non-violence if we cannot successfully use it as a means to overcome our problems? My thought experiment now asks: Yet if non-violence is to be treated as the means rather than the ends, than is it right to hold freedom as an end?
Anyway, I think Simon did bring up the fact that not all Tibetans are homogenous in their philosophies against the Chinese oppression, and where HHDL has failed the others even after a good few decades, we should perhaps, give the other, more-active philosophies a chance. The Buddhist problem here would be a matter of the skill. Could something else mentioned other by HHDL be more skilful?
I think at least we ain't Catholics!
"How darest thou think of me the Popeye to belittle my opinion!! EXCOMMUNICATION!!"
But again, if we have a spiritual head who openly decides that his course of action was unskilful and that the violence is what is skilful - and declares it thus, the PR would be terrible. In fact, such would immediately force Buddhism to be viewed in the same vein as extremist Islamism.
Palzang-la, I share the feeling of impotence, once again. As you say, we sit in our comfort and safety, firing off letters and emails. It is all we can do, along with the hope that any skillful actions of ours may help to bring an end to the violence. It never feels enough.
And how to reconcile my sympathy for the people of Tibet with my conviction that violence only breeds more violence? It is the same question that I used to ask myself standing outside South Africa House, and I still have no answer.
I can't answer that question Palzang because I have never been in that position but I do know that, even though I am a pacifist, that I believe with all my heart that violence is never the answer, if someone attacked my husband or my dogs I would go for them, hard and fast and violent. That is the only answer I can give you.
So rather than criticize them for losing it, so to speak, why not focus on the Chinese who are the ones responsible for pushing them to such degradation? And for no reason. Surely the Chinese must have better crowd control techniques than tanks and assault rifles! Do they really have to slaughter the demonstrators? Now the Chinese media is calling for the rioters to be "crushed". Why? How are they harming China? Is China going to fall apart if they don't crush them?
Well, the answer, unfortunately, is that they might. The Chinese government's hold on the Chinese people is as tenuous as their hold on the Tibetan people. Remember Tienanmen? That hatred is always just below the surface in China, and the only way the Commies can maintain power is through constant terror. That's the reality of what's going on there, and that's why we can't just go belly up and let them have their Olympics to show everyone how "civilized" they are. They've had 6,000 years to develop a civilization there, and this is the best they can do? They should be ashamed!
Palzang
given the sheer magnitude of the provocation, and the duration of the oppressive violence wrought against Tibet, it is scarcely surprising now, that finally, the camel's back is bent and broken, and that the Tibetans have finally sought to act the way they have.
How many Other Cheeks do you suppose they have turned, until now?
Amongst some of the things discussed are about HHDL's ideas of being 'realistic', with it the journalist writes of him not quite expecting the world to dare boycott the Olympics, or impose sanctions like those during the Saffron Revolution, because HHDL recognizes the interdependence net the world has with China. The journalist suggests it to be possible 20 years ago, but now?
The idea that China is not just the government alone - but also its people and also by interdependence, the world, is well-presented in the article. Although opinions reacting to it may be varying, I should praise the author for his excellent coverage of the conservative camp, though I emphasize that it is not THE ONLY WAY we could resolve this. In the Dalai Lama's words, 'The Chinese are our friends' - and the conservative camp seems to ride on this, logically, though I am not sure to when will this quote change from justification to abuse. I do think though, this article is one worth reading for its honesty.
Interestingly, other than direct insights into the issue, from the article I have also been led to think of the Tibetan refugee community as akin to those refugee communities scattered around Africa due to war and famine - why, has this community been so successful in their preservation of a culture and the sustainence of a decent standard of living, and others not? I am persuaded to believe that this is because of the continual effort HHDL has put in as a symbol of the community.
Palzang
The whole idea behind a global economy is that I have this to sell to you, you have that to sell to me, so we'll trade evenly for that. But the goods I sell already, I'm taxing heavily so that my people's interests are served. You want to sell more in my nation, you build a better product.
Personally, nowadays in my private study of political systems, I am feeling more and more anarchist, but it is with its implementations that I have problems and logical dilemmas with. Well, looks like 'power to the people' shall be right for me now.
Top items on the news today....
Judges should give harsher sentences for those breaking our gun laws.
Accident Prevention Organisations want people to become aware of how dangerous it is to drive whilst tired.
And costs of Birthday parties are spiralling out of control, so parents are cutting back radically on things like party bags and hired entertainment....
WE do so like to live on a knife-edge here....:rolleyes: :mad:
As if that, walking on broken glass or having to crawl through fire would stop a real addict getting to their fix!