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Should Cannabis (marijuana) be legalized?
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That's a key point right there, when they are ready. So how do you make people change who do not wish to? You can't, plain and simple. You sound like you have this grand idea of changing society into some kind of storybook utopia that's harmonious and free from suffering or anything you may find disagreeable, I'm sorry but it just isn't possible.
If it's not possible for you, then that's a problem you have to face on your own.
How do you make people change who do not wish to? You don't MAKE anyone change. All you can do is help those who are open to receiving and set an example by doing good, compassionate things for others.
If someone is jacked up on drugs and alcohol and they are destroying their life, then a loving intervention by family and friends can be their salvation.
The argument of fat is legal does not hold water because the food culture is a whole web and fats are included in a healthy diet too. But marijuana is not included in a healthy diet unless a doctor prescribes it for chronic pain or glaucoma for example. You can already get Marinol which is THC sythetic?? prescribed in my state today. I believe medicinal marijuana is fairly prevelant in the US.
People I wish you all the best:Eric...;)
Sorry, but that is SO not the way humanity behaves, has behaved, or probably ever will behave. It's completely unrealistic to expect consensus from any group of people. Don't get me wrong. I'd very much like the world to be a better place and have worked, and will continue to work, to make it so. But it's never going to be perfect and I wouldn't be practicing Buddhism if I thought it could be. Actually no, that's not how the Buddha taught. He taught those who had the desire and capacity to hear and understand the truth.
I believe very strongly that things can happen but that wasn't such a good example....
Hi Jeffrey,
I agree with you that marijuana should be available to those who need it for medical reasons but I disagree with this statement because there is a large body of evidence that clearly proves the massive abuse potential of the diazapines and it looks nothing like the abuse potential of marijuana. The two kinds of drugs are completely different. And I'm only talking about the psychological dependence issue. In terms of chemical dependence only the diazapines have that potential. Marijuana does not.
I also have a lot of anecdotal evidence that backs up the clinical evidence because I'm intimately acquainted with both drugs and have a number of family members who are as well. I'd always assumed that marijuana would be more likely to cause lung cancer than even cigarettes and have argued the point many times. But I read an article in Reuters Health News a few months ago about a new study that showed the opposite was actually true and it was quite decisive and convincing. At least, it went a long way to convincing this skeptic. And besides that, anyone who needed medicinal pot could use a diffuser which doesn't have any lung cancer risks involved as it doesn't actually bring the marijuana to the point of combustion which is the problem with smoking it.
As for it being illegal or not , people will just keep growing it or getting hold of it regardless.
However it is regarded as an 'intoxicant' in relation to the 5 precepts.
I work with people who maintain state parks and huge recreational areas next to the Mexican border. They are park rangers... people who enjoy the outdoors. These folks have been shot at for getting too close to a trail where drugs are being transported across the border.
Marijuana is a huge business for Mexican drug cartels. To legalize pot would cut a major source of funding off from these cartels.
We have tested and proven that people are going to use pot regardless of whether or not its legal. But instead of taxing it and moving the money toward useful means, the billions of dollars in sales of marijuana funds violence in communities. It sounds silly, but legalizing pot would make a lot of violent communities much safer - particularly those close to the border in Mexico.
I don't want to see pot legalized in our country. I don't use it. I wouldn't use it if it were legal. But I think controlling it is tantamount to the CDC spending all its resources to fight the common cold or chicken pox rather than on AIDS, cancer, things of that nature. Why spend so much effort and time on the small things when we could put those resources to solutions to things that devastate families, communities and human lives.
How does 'morality' so easily trump common sense?
In addition to this, there are also plenty of other sound reasons for legalizing cannabis, many of which have been mentioned in this thread:
1) Legalization would reverse the insane situation we have now, where people are going to prison for possessing cannabis: a terrible flaw in the legal system, imposing penalties vastly out of proportion to offenses.
2) Regulation of cannabis would generate tremendous streams of revenue, which could be used for the help, improvement, and betterment of society. My country (the USA) is desperately in need of such revenue at the moment, as we are languishing in a great financial crisis; and what happens to my country tends to affect the rest of the world.
3) Marijuana has been shown to have a number of benefits, some of which are of great help to people struggling with various medical and other conditions.
4) Marijuana has a peaceful effect on the mind and spirit. I remember a few years back, when Tommy Chong (of "Cheech and Chong" fame) went to jail for selling his urine-masking product, he said the jailors considered him a model prisoner, because he was peaceful and never made any trouble for anyone. (Whether they took their thinking a step further, and realized such a peaceful citizen should never have been thrown in jail in the first place, is unclear.)
Aside from all these reasons, there is another reason why I, personally, support the legalization and wise use of marijuana, and that is this: this remarkable plant possesses a virtue whereby the consciousness can be expanded, which can be a great aid to the spiritual seeker.
Marijuana isn't merely a "toy" for pleasure: it's also a tool, an aid, and a gift. Its effects (as is often the case with drugs) correspond to your own inner state: if you use it as a pleasure-device, then it will give you pleasure and nothing else. But you can also harness its energy for higher purposes, some of which are quite remarkable. You can use this tool for learning, growing, seeing things in different ways; it can help you bridge gaps between people; connect to others and the world; cultivate peaceful intention; transcend perceived limitations; and much more.
When I look at all the benefits associated with this plant--and contrast them with the effects of far-worse drugs that are currently legal--it just doesn't make any sense at all that marijuana is illegal. I think years from now, when it is legal, we'll look back on these days and shake our heads in amazement.
There's no virtue to be had in expanding consciousness in an artificial way with drugs.
If you could see a few of the people l know who've become forgetful mumbling zombies,living in flats which look like disaster areas after years of heavy cannabis smoking, then I doubt you'd be saying all that. You'd see the wasted lives of formally talented and intelligent people. The once popular phrase "I'm sooo wasted !" was a very accurate one.
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It is not my truth, though. My experience has been a bit different from yours.
The most brilliant man I've ever personally known has smoked marijuana regularly for many years. This man is an inventor, linguist, artist, craftsman, computer expert...he's the cleverest, most quick-witted, most sophisticated man I know, and the closest thing I've ever found to a "Renaissance Man". He's a genius, and it so happens that he smokes marijuana every day.
I'm not advocating smoking weed every day; nor am I suggesting everyone will be like this man if they do. I'm just citing an example of an "alternative reality" to the one you describe, in the interest of creating a more complete vision.
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I would like to see every state legalize it, tax it or have permits for growing and/or having it, regulate it, and decriminalize it.
Perhaps a solution could be a legal oral preparation. The actual in practice real life outcome of the substance could be tracked and trends observed. If abusive patterns appear basicly using the same criteria as alcoholism or at least adopted/modifed for the trends then the substance could be declared a drug to be regulated ie a pharmaceutical drug. If it had such patterns of abuse it could fall somewhere between cough syrup with a little codein (schedule 5) and oxycontin (schedule 2). If the abuse pattern was severe enough it could of course be schedule 1 ie illegal.
Why not introduce a product into the legal market that is smoked? Lung cancer. Its just not worth it. Its the wrong direction. We are already trying to use tax incentives to get people to stop smoking tobacco.
Still the concern (to me) remains of driving under the influence of marijuana which there is no test equivalent to a breathalizer. Could a test that assessed the blood level (in the brain) of the active ingredient relative to typical levels which are studied to impair driving? I've smoked mj habitually every day over a long period of time and although I was very experienced with the effects and practiced in driving still I realize in hindsight that my driving was impaired. A regretable time for me. Its really not that complicated that a substance that distorts perceptions of space and time is not a good idea for driving.
I remember when I could go over the border for some authentic tacos, drinks and a good time. Now the borders of Mexico are like Afghanistan or Iraq. I hope some day I can visit there again without having to watch my back the way you would have to now.
And for every example like yours one could find an example that is the complete opposite. Be careful about painting many people with the same brushstroke.
Well...It`s just my humble opinion,I wish everybody a very nice weekend;Eric.
No need for your warning to me Takeahnase - Did I say "many people" no I didn't. I was speaking from the direct experience of some people I know personally.
I'm a practising Buddhist and having once smoked cannabis myself I think the cannabis trail is a mistaken one, OK?
Others can do as they please - but that doesn't prevent me from expressing my view in this thread.
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People have been smoking pot since the day they figured out how to light a leaf. It's been used medicinally, spiritually, and philosophically in many cultures, and still is - our big problem with pot is that some people use it simply to "get high" instead of in an attempt to gain something greater. Instead of blaming the substance, point the finger at the sort who are likely to use any vice they can get their hands on. The rising tide of "those types of people" is largely a product of our high traffic, low value, over stimulated, under nourished way of life.
Just about anyone who's smoked weed can tell you, it encourages introspection. It brightens details you would normally overlook. This can illuminate issues in ourselves or in the world around us that would otherwise be completely ignored.
But no, let's focus on the bad guys who only smoke it to get lost in their heads, never to return. Let's focus on the "dumb kids" who turn to drugs and subsequently "ruin" their previously perfect grades and athleticism. How about the major possibility that something triggered that kid on a downward spiral, and marijuana was an attempt at self medication that didn't quite work? What if it DID work, but you can't possibly know that because you don't know how much worse off they'd be without it? Why is it always assumed to be the cause, instead of a byproduct of a problem?
Not only is it extremely difficult to kill someone with marijuana - it's been extremely difficult for anyone to prove that it's physically addictive. It's not addictive in the way heroin, alcohol, and tobacco are - which alter your body's cycle to "need" that substance. Marijuana is psychologically addictive in the same way you might become accustomed to reading a chapter before bed every night. Drinking tea halfway between breakfast and lunch. It's not necessary, you just enjoy it... to an extent where you're cranky if you can't do it. But you don't get sick.
I'm not saying it's this amazing wonderful thing and everyone should do it. I'm saying it's mostly used in safe circumstances with decent outcomes. Our society just loves to nitpick on the smattering of negative anecdotes - and we all know every time a story gets passed on it increases in drama. Criminalizing and demonizing weed has been this snowball effect of ridiculous paranoia and false claims for the entirety of our existence as a nation (U.S.). No wonder we're so gorram confused. We started confused, we're still confused, and if we keep letting this kind of "awareness" pollute the population - we will end ourselves confusedly.
As someone else said - taking the middle path is recommended. Avoiding extremes. Screaming for or against marijuana is likely a product of fear or obsession. As another person said - it is a plant. The earth gave us many plants to work with. It's up to us to figure out how best to use them. And that's not even me just speaking as a fresh little Buddhist. That's just stinking logic.
Edited to Add: Hoping this didn't sound directed at anyone in particular in a negative fashion. The last thing this thread needs is more misunderstanding. Just my little rant, no harm intended
Sure its a plant and so is arsenic and other deadly poisons, as well as hallucinogenics, food plants, herbs etc etc - but what's wrong with our natural state ?
I've never suggested that cannabis should be criminalised by the way.
Although we start wherever we are, Buddhism isn't about getting high on recreational drugs or alcohol in order to try to understand and alleviate one's mental suffering and practice the Dharma/Dhamma. Buddhist practice is about understanding and working with ones natural state. Cannabis isn't a "dangerous drug from hell" but it does change one's mental state - especially the powerful skunk around the UK where young schoolkids can be seen staggering around the city estates in the evenings with a large spliff in one hand and a can of alcohol in the other.
If one has mental health issues, is under medical supervision and taking prescription drugs, then that's another matter altogether, of course.
Each to their own however, I can't see any point in me continuing on this thread. I wish you all happiness in whatever form that takes for you.
Be well and at ease.:)
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When the bill came up for a vote in the House (1937), it was late Friday afternoon in the middle of August, pre-air conditioning days. It was brought up for a voice vote in a virtually empty chamber, and no one seemed to know or care what the bill was about. When someone asked the Speaker what the bill concerned, he (Sam Rayburn) replied it had something to do with something called "marihuana", but that's as much as he knew! The entire discussion and vote took approximately 2 minutes or less. Now, if you've ever been in DC in August, without air conditioning, late on a Friday afternoon, you can understand why no one present had any interest at all in what this bill was about. It could have been to kill the first born son of all Americans, and they still would have passed it because they wanted to get out of the Capitol ASAP and go off to wherever they could cool off and have a few beers. So you can see how much thought went into the whole process.
However, it should be remembered that the real reason marijuana was made illegal was economic, not "moral". Coal and oil producers were very concerned because hemp oil was the third leading energy source in the country at the time and was fast overtaking coal and oil, plus it was a renewable source that would never run out, unlike the fossil fuels. So they conspired with dear Mr. Anslinger to get rid of it. And succeeded, as so many lobbyists with deep pockets have done before and since.
Do you know what the principal crop of Mt. Vernon was when George Washington was alive? Hemp. It was also a major secondary crop at Monticello (Jefferson). In fact, it was a very important crop for a lot of farmers in our early days.
However that may be, using it as a Buddhist who holds vows would be a breaking of the precept against intoxicants. But it is interesting to examine the crazy history of things, especially when Congress is involved. Then it is sure to be bizarre and tainted with greed and corruption!
Oh, the bird seed lobby did win an exemption from the ban on marijuana, provided they only use "detoxified" seeds! They still have it.
Palzang
Actually arsenic is a metallic element closely related to lead. Just FYI.
Palzang
Yes, apologies, I meant hemlock.
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That being said, my dislike of drug cartels far outweighs my dislike of drug users. The violent, murderous thugs involved in the Mexican drug trade are essentially the Taliban minus the ideology. Just pure sadism. Nothing would please me more than to see them broken up or rendered impotent. So for that alone, I favor some sort of relaxation of drug penalization and maybe a general decriminalization entirely.
I do have some reservations though. What about all the other sorts of drugs out there? Heroin, cocaine, etc? Do you all think we should decriminalize them as well? And if we did, who would sell them? Drug stores? Convenient stores? If I owned either sort of store, I would not want to sell any of those drugs because I would fear that people would violently try to get them from me just to feed their craving.
If they were legal however then it wouldn't be necessary to obtain them through violent means (no more so than with anything else) as they would be available and reasonable priced. Sure, some may try to rob the store for them, but that's how it goes with anything. I had a friend who was once held up at gun point at the convenience store where he worked for cigarettes. Whoever it was apparently was bright enough to realize that there wouldn't be much cash on hand (as most people use cards these days) and to know that my friend would not have access to the safe, so the person walked away with a couple hundred dollars in cigarettes instead. (There was a rash of similar robberies in the area around that time.)
:snip:
See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/9cziXl
I remember I did the wallpaper work for the kitchen. Me and my friend did it. Mom advanced us the money. We spent the entire wad on marijuana. If I had another wallpaper job the next week I would have done the same thing. But wallpaper jobs, and money were not growing on trees!
I don't think marijuana is the worst thing and it would just be a disaster if it became legal. I know the world would go on. I also know marijuana is often used to treat emotional problems or to escape. But it doesn't work and the intoxication often distracts someone from actually working on the problems. It also is harmful to lungs. It also impairs driving.
The only people who will have less money (relative - relationship between resources and amount it can buy) to spend on marijuana will be drug dealers, actually.
I stated my reasoned objection to unmitigated legalization of marijuana in #50 above. I argued the way I did because my own first-hand experience from my early years showed me some real dangers in marijuana use.
Anything that modifies consciousness —be it anger, alcohol, or mind-enhancing drugs— also shrinks judgment. That is a bad thing and is why I believe marijuana use should be allowed only within walled-in spaces wherein such "vacationers" have agreed to being subject to the heightened risks involved by being there.
Now, perhaps my joints were sometimes laced with another substance (such as angel dust or horse tranquilizer), but there is no fool-proof way of guaranteeing product purity in the outside world, anyhow. My experiences included such things as having vivid thoughts of doing some violent things with knives. Nor were these thoughts checked much by my judgment apparatus, but I was left floating in some sort of moral void where I was merged into some sort of altered "ego" and not truly personally responsible (respons-able, able to respond in a thoughtful way).
As a society we expect reasonably healthy people to keep things tucked in, filed, and somewhat containerized, including their behavior and their ability to function in a minimally efficient way in public. It's bad enough having to be reminded in a movie theater not to smoke and not to do this and that, but when the list starts including not urinating in the aisle and such, I'll definitely wanna move to Newfoundland.
I still had enough to grab a bag of fries (and at my school they served huge bags with thick cut fries, it was awesome).
Personally, i see marijuana as being just another opiate, just another method of distracting oneself away from the spirit. We dont need it.
Many poisons are only poisonous in a certain form. Lots of poisons can be altered to use as medicine, and lots of common safe things are also poisonous in another form. It is within our nature to poke and prod at things until we are sure we understand all properties and tendencies of an element, chemical, species, etc. And even then, sometimes we poke and prod even more.
Over time, we often discover that something 'bad' is amazingly 'good' and vice versa. Look at diet suggestions over the last 50 years - or how about medical practices?
Poisons used in medicine:
- Wolfsbane. The roots of this plant contain a deadly poison that is used by the Nepalese against their enemies. Was used for all sorts of things like anxiety, asthma, fevers, and pneumonia until the last century when stronger substances were discovered.
- Digitalis. Also known as "Dead Man's Bells" and "Witch's Glove". More commonly known as Foxglove (a weed that grows around here actually). The entire plant is toxic, including the roots and seeds - especially the new baby leaves. Just a nibble and you could die. It's been used in operations to regulate heart rate and prescribed to patients with heart problems.
- Hemlock. Oh yes, one of the most widely known deadly plant poisons. Contains many toxins, but the strongest is an alkaloid which has a molecular structure similar to nicotine, called Coniine. It's a neurotoxin which can screw up your nervous system beyond repair. It can completely paralyze you, and/or kill you dead. Used by Greek and Persian physicians for arthritis, and antispasmodic purposes.
- Deadly Nightshade. Or its far prettier name, Atropa Belladonna. So fun to say. Poisons have been extracted from this plant for ages, used on poison arrows and slipped into drinks/food to murder. But now it's listed on the World Health Organization's "Essential Drug List" which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic health care system.
Obviously there are a plethora of miracle medicines used today that can also be ingested improperly to cause illness and death, I won't even bother listing those, haha. Point is, everything has different forms and uses. My proposal is that cannabis is not inherently BAD or that its use can only lead to negative effects. If you're so worried about us preserving our 'natural state' as humans, don't forget about our natural state of curiosity and ingenuity. We're always discovering and developing - we wouldn't be able to do that if we avoided these plants simply because they CAN bring harm.
Sure. plants have lots of interesting and healing properties - but that's not my point. For practising Buddhists (and this is a Buddhist forum) a natural, alcohol and drug-free mind is essential for the practice of meditation. Ask any Buddhist teacher from any Buddhist tradition and they'll say don't smoke, drink or take recreational drugs(which includes smoking grass or resin ) if you're really serious about your practice. Prescription drugs from a doctor are a different matter.
But hey - whatever turns you on as they say !
May all be happy and free from dukkha.
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If marijuana is legalized within certain enclosures where people will stay until the effects of the drug are over, that would be the way to go. However, to legalize marijuana "globally" would be a mistake, I believe, since the world is crazy enough when people's judgments are unclouded.
I believe that use of mind-bending intoxicants in select spiritual pilgrimmages and times of ones life may very well be beneficial in one's spiritual path. I believe there is much evidence that shamans and spiritual greats from the past mostly all used them at one point or other in their lives. However, I do not believe that this fact needs to be translated into an easy-access, most-anywhere kind of thing. Once the experience is had, does one really need to keep going back (especially when it inevitably means at others' expense)?
Another issue that's important to me when considering any legislation:
Will or can this make the world a better place?
I really can't see my way to answer this question in the affirmative — this issue concerning broadly legalizing marijuana use.
For myself, I'd confine legislating on "rights" to such things as people truly need —such as food, shelter, peaceful and safe environments, self-determination, and the right to live and love without ostracism or punishment.
Love itself is a kind of drug and people might do well to get high on this a bit more and spread more joy abroad. But we lay our heavy chains on one another and retain concepts such as "cheating" on one's spouse and other such garbage. I'm not advocating that people act like dogs in the alleyways, but there certainly seems to be collars around our necks that even marijuana won't release. I believe it's part of our humane responsibility to each in his or her way try to redefine love every day. I know one thing: Love does not entail chains.
Love makes one's head spin, but the funny thing is, it does nothing to interfere with the efficient transmission of neurotransmitters between key cerebral synapses —and thus does not deleteriously affect judgment.
Arguably, love also affects judgment, though. It will make a person kinder, more forbearing, capable of true remorse when harm is done, etc. &c. On the other hand, its being withheld can make a person see the worst things in a person and make very harsh decisions. Now, we cannot undo many of our decisions in life, so I'd argue to make Love one's drug.
It will lighten one's load, no matter how heavy!
Metta.
Well spoken, Irris!
If you're interested, I got that statistic here.
Clearly, marijuana being illegal has been a resounding success in it's aims.
Answer me this: how has the prohibitions against marijuana made the world a better place?
Would not the choice to use intoxicants fall under "self-determination"? And does not the imprisonment of people who use substances like marijuana violate this right to live without ostracism or punishment?
Well, esteemed Zendo, what does one expect from a a table (chart) published by an interest group (drugwarfacts.org)? A table can very well be none other than a compilation made to bolster an argument, no matter how flimsy. Just show the stuff you want to stand out and ignore whatever you like.
But what about the person who's had a big dose of marijuana driving down the highway who runs head-on to a schoolbus? How can anyone possibly ever prove that has never happened?
I, for one, would trust myself to drive safely down the road after several drinks, for at least I can reasonably expect to remember where I am and where I am headed. i can make no such claim with marijuana. The stuff makes me woofy and not-in-control.
Also, as I've touched on above, the substance breaks down borders between one and his environs in such a way that his behavior could easily negatively impact the welfare (and arguably the survival) of others.
What I really meant was, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I am not aware that mere possession of a few grams of marijuana would get one into a whole heap of trouble. If it does, my advice is to use it only while on retreating from the business of the marketplace-world. I guess my thinking revolves around the concept of urgency. Just how important is this matter in the whole scope of things? What rights or purported rights of humankind are alleged to be trodden upon by laws that outlaw bona fide commerce in marijuana?
I can think of lots of things that would make for a better, more just world. Sorry, legalization of pot doesn't quite begin to reach the bottom of that threshold.
You may look at the question askance and ask: "How have the prohibitions against marijuana made the world a better place?" But I say it's the prosecuting spirit on the part of some who enforce the law have done more harm than the actual laws themselves. I still believe that people basically fall into either one of two ideological camps (not counting the disinterested). One kind of person thinks that people deserve better than what they get and that they should be given the benefit of the doubt more often than not; the other kind basically finds people falling short of some arbitrary mark and thinks that they should be punished. Perhaps there are too many in law enforcement and in legislature who think like this.
At any rate, I simply cannot correctly answer this question of yours in the affirmative.
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Sorry, Takeahnase, I thought I was referring to human rights being restricted to things a person truly needs to be happy, safe, sheltered, fed, and free to express the loving-consciousness of the universe in his or her unique way without such encumbrances. Luxuries like "needing" certain mind-enhancing substances or consuming enough substance to feed 5000 while hundreds are starving would not be filed under the concept of "rights."
My Word, we should be teaching the young to be less ego-centric, loving, and exploring of the ways of love. I would not advocate drug exploration for anyone under 25. Let their own minds grow first! Drugs are for old people like me and I'm afraid of them. I'd like to be able to take the occasional ativan at my nerve-wracking job, but community and corporate wisdom tells me I must rely there on inner resources. Buddha help Me!
On the contrary is has made the world a much more dangerous place for all citizens by funding drug cartels. Just look at Mexico: there is currently a war being waged by the cartels (who are largely funded by marijuana sales) against the Mexican government that has claimed an estimate 15,000 lives in the past three years. And for what? Really, what good are our drug laws doing? Clearly they're not stopping anyone from using these drugs. So legalize it. Let legit business cultivate and sell it, cut off the source of the gangs and cartels' funding. A person who wants to smoke is going to do so regardless of if it's legal or illegal, so make it legal. No one's going to buy from shady dealers when they can go down to the local corner gas station and pick up a pack of Marlboro Greens.
What I really meant was, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I am not aware that mere possession of a few grams of marijuana would get one into a whole heap of trouble. If it does, my advice is to use it only while on retreating from the business of the marketplace-world. I guess my thinking revolves around the concept of urgency. Just how important is this matter in the whole scope of things? What rights or purported rights of humankind are alleged to be trodden upon by laws that outlaw bona fide commerce in marijuana?
Sure I can think of lots of things that would make the world better too. Most of them simply are not realistic.
There are, hence our drug laws.
Sorry, but I fail to see how any of that actually address my question.
Also I'd like to add that, quite frankly, I find your willingness to drive under the influence of alcohol disturbing. And I could say more here, but out of respect for this forum I'll refrain.
I say legalise all drugs and then have independant bodies to monitor them. For instance the Idependant Drug Montioring Body would give its seal of approval to heroin ecstacy or weed to show that it is not cut or dangerous thus giving the vendor and buyer a little sense of being genuine and safer rather than dodgey and dangerous.
As long as we have support networks out there doing direct action work and educate the people honestly and fully rather than what they do now that is all we can do.
"By oneself is wrong done
By oneself is one defiled
By oneself is wrong not done
By oneself, surely, is one cleansed
One cannot purify another
Purity and impurity are in oneself alone"
Bless
In the past my offline lay Tibetan teacher told his lay pupils to avoid recreational drugs and alcohol if they wanted to make progress in their practice.
It makes perfect sense to me as a former user of recreational drugs myself. It's pretty obvious that one can't meditate properly if one's off one's head -or affected mentally with drugs or alcohol in general. A drug high is just that.
I've no doubt there will be plenty of objections to this -so please don't quote me any further. I'm done with this discussion now.
Kind regards,
Dazzle
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Let's be careful not to get so caught up in the idea of "upholding our end of the argument" that we automatically dismiss information which doesn't happen to match our view. Once we fall into that error, we have left the path of objectivity, and attached ourselves to an ego-illusion.
"Winning" or "losing" an argument doesn't really mean anything. We keep regurgitating our opinions here again and again, as if we feel the need to "defend" or "reinforce" our position after our "opponent" has spoken.
That's all ego-illusion. As Eckhart Tolle points out in The Power of Now, no one's attacking us; we don't need to defend anything. There's no need to heave objectivity overboard like so much ballast, thinking to lighten the balloon of our argument. Instead, we should learn to view whatever is presented to us objectively and with an open mind, and "leap beyond the opposites" to a place of equanimity.
With metta,
zendo
Sir, you must have missed my concession in #190 above:
You asked: I said: There will always be criminals acting by whatever means to secure power and lucre for themselves. Though I would not pin the blame for the violence of the drug cartels squarely on the shoulders of upholders of the law in the various communities around the country, I must concede that the prohibitions against marijuana have not made the world a better place. Some parts safer, I'd argue, though —such as where I live, I think.
Surely laws should be reasonable or people will cease to obey them, thus undercutting the authority of law.
I said: You Said Maybe I could be more blunt. "Human Rights" are things that each person needs for dignity, happiness, security, shelter, food, and freedom to engage one's being in meaningful relationships as he or she chooses. Sorry, but human rights do not include luxuries such as getting intoxicated, consuming and hoarding overmuch when others are starving, or even choosing the pastimes of Jeffrey Dahmer.
[Clears throat] Didya mean my [apparent] willingness to drive under the influence of alcohol?
I must say that you appear over-censorious here. I was just comparing the effects of alcohol to those of marijuana. I have actually never driven under the influence of either. I was merely contrasting the two substances, old boy!
Let me throw this right back atcha, Zendo:
Let's all be careful not to get caught up in the idea of upholding our own views that we fail to hear the voice of the person with whom we are communicating.
The fact is that different people see things differently. Dialogue is not a one-way street and perhaps may be seen as an end in itself.
The fact that I think that table is absurd and states things that are unprovable and has footnotes that don't match, &c, should be no bone of contention. I simply cannot believe so-called "facts" that are based on the observations of tunnel-vision. That is just part of my mental constitution, and not an "ego-delusion," as you call it. I do not resent being preached to, so long as the voice is reasonable (as is yours), but I do object to being characterized as one perhaps intent on winning an argument at any cost.
It's my standards of discovery, not "ego-delusion," as you call it, that causes me to suspend belief in those statistics. Statistics are not created by an all-seeing eye. To me, it's absurd to make that claim about zero deaths due to marijuana. My experience tells me this is highly unlikely.
However, it's fun engaging with endearing people like yourself.
Metta,
Nirvy
I smoked an absurd amount of marijuana. One time it would be criminal to travel with drug so I just smoke it all! I developed schizophrenia. Don't know whether or not this is related. Cheers.
I didn't BEGIN to start feeling happier until I stop loving states of mind and start loving PEOPLE. Even so it is a big stumbling block to obscure my pure practice. I am glad I smoked marijuana because I did it with pure intention! But now I know it is a little more complicated. Cheers.
SERVA MANGALAM! may all be accomplished
I'm really not sure how it's any safer by such laws, but I digress.
Indeed so. And I'd say considering that so many people disregard our drug laws that seems to imply that such laws are reasonable.
Do you believe that a person has the right to do as they wish in regards to their own bodies and lives so long as they do not harm others?
Perhaps I misinterpreted your statement, but it's because I've known plenty a drunkard to use more or less the same justification for driving while intoxicated. And you can save the "old boy" shtick, it reeks of condescension.
In problems with the mind allmost ALL drugs numb a person "out" of their problem.
It`s like smashing the cup to fix the crack.Are the doctors right !!! ???
Just my oppinion....People all the best;Eric.