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Should Cannabis (marijuana) be legalized?
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Comments
I don't think most of the people arguing on this thread are addicted to any kind of drug.. I too am not addicted to any kind of drug but I know people who are addicted to it so I'm against it.
aren't you going a little too extreme? teaching your kids the same thing!!??
"basically smoking marijuana regularaly is a problem"
No man I said I'm going to tell them I don't want them smoking pot.
I agree, especially when it comes to something which causes so many problems such as alcohol.
No.
This is just not a subject of interest to anyone trying to develop the skillful means of Buddhism. (I apologize to those who do smoke pot, but you've got your feet on both sides of the fence).
In the past however I was skeptical about supporting the Green Party and the legalization of marijuana because it could lead people to doing harder drugs. But I think if harder drugs are still illegal you would'nt have people jumping on the heroin/cocaine/mushrooms/lsd/mdma/ecstacy/peyoti ect bandwagon.
I support the legalization of marijuana but not other drugs...
oh.. I got it the other way round. My mistake.
Chicken and egg, how can we know which came first?
Growing my friends who ended up addicted to substances almost all came from less suportive families who had much bigger problems than drug use. In other words, how can you be sure that drugs cause misery when miserable people are more likely to use drugs to begin with?
How can you be so sure? Perhaps for some people cannabis perturbs the mind in way that facilitates learning about the mind.
I'll give you an example.
A couple of weeks ago I was playing in my first disc golf tournament. I had anxiety because I didn't know anyone in my group, and this anxiety caused me to play terribly, which then came back to enhance the anxiety.
Well then someone brought out a pipe and I took half a puff into my lungs. 5 minutes later I literally watched my anxiety reside and what I saw was illuminating. I saw as an experiential fact how anxiety creates a 'wall'. I saw how it caused intellectualization, and how I ignored the facial expressions and the voice tone and the real meaning of what people were communicating. I saw this in a direct, factual, empirical way, not as an intellectual idea.
But beyond that, people in these forums cope with dukkha in myriad ways, all of which do not necessarily lead to liberation. You can say that television, disc golf, bowling, mowing the lawn, dancing, tatoos, fashion, karaoke, and thousands of other activities are "not a subject of interest to anyone trying to develop the skillful means of Buddhism."
of course it is not but this is current events section and people can talk about anything here. At least I think so.. I might be wrong.
people who don't have any problem, because of peer pressure and or just to have fun or just to try it started it and they are not addicted to it.
haven't you heard of such a thing??
Sure I've known plenty of people who use drugs who aren't addicted to them. Most people in my country (America) use drugs and aren't addicted to them, even highly addictive drugs like alcohol.
Depending on what studies you look at, reports of the addictiveness of marijuana are often skewed because courts pressure people caught with marijuana to go to rehab and addiction counseling. Some people do get very strong habbits of marijuana use, but it should be no surprise to Buddhists that people form strong habits to all kinds of things. People get addicted to overeating, television, driving fast, skateboarding, cleaning their house, message boards, long distance running, anything.
Yup! Look at the lives it's ruined! Look how stupid and irresponsible and dangerous people are when they use it!
Alcohol is certainly an addictive drug which causes a lot of health, relationship and social disorder problems .
.
Yes, I know, that's basically my point, along with the hypocrisy of shouting for a ban on weed while being totally fine with alcohol (and drinking it underage to boot).
.
Alan Watts said this, I wanted to start a post I was wondering if anyone heard this. It's not like I'm going to say OK get high the Buddha didn't say anything about it or anything I'm just curious.
If you've heard about this lemme know.
With all due respect, the fact remains that Alan Watts was a 1960's hippy alcoholic.
Sigalovada Sutta DN 31
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.ksw0.html
AND
The Fifth Precept
5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
<DT>
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/pancasila.html
</DT>
Lol I bet he did.
restricting it is ok but full making it unavailable seems to be a little too much cause everyone including me drink it. -- cocktails etc.
true but it is so common and is shown by movies to be awesome and cool... I don't think it would ever be illegal.... I don't consider alcohol to be bad stuff... cocktails, vodka etc. are um... good things. Taken in moderation of course.
I would rather have people give up alcohol and smoke some pot in moderation....
Edit - ok, you have to be trolling.
I don't like any smoking stuff.. cigarette, weed, cigar or anything else. cause they affect lungs from the first time.
Everything you put in your body affects it. I doubt you and your friends never pig out on junk food or fast food. If a person wants to inhale smoke then that's frankly their choice. Alcohol might not affect your lungs but it sure makes some people stupid and dangerous to OTHERS, yet it's legal.
is alcohol as dangerous as weed?
I drink alcohol like once in a month or so but I have made a promise (to myself) never to smoke anything... Once I watched a medical show in which they showed how the lungs go completely black if you smoke such stuff. It really scared me.
um. I'm sorry. did I say something wrong?
I can understand how you would want to advise people to stay away from drugs, but as a Buddhist, how can you possibly justify locking someone up in a cage for using a drug?
But its much worse than that, it goes on a permanent record, and if its a felony in the states you are blacklisted from many jobs, blacklisted from renting many apartments, prevented from voting, and cannot receive government support for education.
For a long period of time I used marijuana to cope with stress. I would smoke it about 20 times a day, every day. During this period I went to college, graduated with a 3.5 GPA in biochemistry, got a job where I worked in a lab doing complex biological experiments, published a scientific paper, and then went to graduate school, where my use became more casual, using only a few times a month.
Contrary to what you would expect from popular opinion, my use of marijuana enabled me to perform to a higher level than I could otherwise, because it helped me deal with debilitating stress.
If I had been using alcohol with that frequency I would surely have done damage to my liver, stomach, brain, possibly other organ systems and most likely would have become physically addicted to the drug. Instead I chose to use a non toxic, non addictive substance without as many side effects (slurred speech, loss of motor control, poor judgment...) as alcohol. For that choice you would put me in a cage, prevent me from furthering my education, and blacklist me from jobs and apartments.
You'll have to ask those who create and implement the laws, that.
Tough. If you can't take the punishment, don't do the crime. The law is quite clear. You choose to flout it - then be prepared to accept - and pay - the consequences.
I wonder how much different your stress levels would have been if you'd used a certified, legal drug, or even, used meditation and stress-relieving methods?
Great.
well done.
Congratulations.
Well worth risking your education and further career for.
Glad it worked.
For You.
I know somebody who did the same as you.
In fact, he smoked less.
he has permanent brain damage and is unable to work, now.
He's a nervous wreck, behaves inappropriately and has therefore wasted three good years of University education.
Yes, I couldn't agree more. It's not non-toxic, it is addictive and it does have side effects. And, oh - it's Illegal.
so none of your arguments wash in the slightest.
coupled with the fact that the Fifth precept advises us to abstain - what exactly is your point??
I've also had some powerful meditations from it, and contempaltive meditation is amazing, the ideas that come forth are truly wonderful.
A technique of mine is to smoke a spliff, do breathing meditation, focusing on the breath around the Hara and when i'm deep enough i'll think of a subject i.e. consciouness, what is consciouness, conciousness must be intelligent so does that mean it's alive. If so is the Universe conscious, if it is that must mean it must also be alive etc. If an intrusive thought comes in which is far less frequent than breathing meditation because you're already thinking, just pull your attention back to the subject your contempalting.
Not that you can't do this without cannabis but it's as if you're beliefs are more open to change, because you're more willing to let them go.
You misunderstand, I am speaking to anyone in this thread who supports drugs being illegal. If you support prohibition, then you support locking people in cages for doing something you don't agree with.
I'm not whining about drug laws, I am challenging any individual in this thread who supports drug laws.
If I had to do it again I would use marijuana, I know that it works and I can't be certain of the others. Maybe they would work, maybe they wouldn't.
Am I detecting a little cynicism?
Coincidence does not link cause and effect. I know this example you brought up fits with your expectations, but if you look at the large scale studies, there is little to suggest that cannabis causes mental illness, however there are studies which show that mental illness is a strong predictor of drug use. And when you look at countries with greatly varying rates of cannabis use, they have similar incidences of mental illness.
In the slightest eh? You never give an inch do you
When I say non toxic I am referring to two things.
1. It is virtually impossible to die from cannabis overdose. Unlike aspirin or alcohol or even water, cannabis will not kill you no matter how much you take.
2. Is not directly toxic to cells. The metabolism of alcohol forms acetaldehyde, a chemical similar to formaldehyde, which is toxic to every cell in your body. This is what kills your liver cells, and probably what shrinks your brain. In addition alcohol is iritating to the lining of the stomach and causes ulcers.
It may be possible that through a cascade of cell signaling cannibis causes the indirect death of cells or rewiring of synapses, but exactly what happens, if anything, is not known.
Studies of people who use cannabis exclusively, at extremely high frequency for many years have shown that there may be a slight cognitive decline, however this is not certain, and many of those studies the participants do not abstain for at least a month before the study. All studies I've read where participants abstained for at least a month ( the timeframe it takes THC to leave the body) show no decline compared to controls. I should emphasize that the decline is very slight - it does not make a smart person average or an average person dumb.
Now when we talk about addiction there are many definitions. One common distinction is physical vs. psychological addiction. Cannabis has not been shown to have the same physical dependancy as heroin or cocaine or alcohol or nicotine. It may be the subject of a psychological dependancy, but as a Buddhist surely you are aware that people form all kinds of addicitons, to fatty food or sweet food or the television or to snow boarding or message boards. It seems quite clear that psychological addiction can happen to any rewarding stimulus, but that doesn't mean we should make all rewarding stimuli illegal does it?
As for side effects, I believe you misunderstand me. For me in the way I use it, it has far less side effects than alcohol.
Well I'm not someone who just blindly follows something in a dusty book, but I'll humor you:
In my experience cannabis does not lead to carelessness.
My main point is that if you support drug prohibition, you support locking people in cages because they engage in activity you do not agree with. I think this is an important point, because people often ignore the consequences of their positions. It seems many people just think something like, "drugs are bad, they should be illegal", and the thought process stops there without regard to what it means.
Illegality is not some abstract idea, it is the locking of people in cages, taking away their rights, and disrupting their families.
http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showpost.php?p=119005&postcount=1
..is incompatible. Whatever you think of drug use is your business, but if you think you can continue and practice the Dharma you are deluding yourself.
However what if perturbing the mind reveals what the mind is doing? Above I gave an example of anxiety and pot and how I learned a bit about that anxiety. The other day I had something else happen.
There was a subject, a thought that spontaneously appeared in my mind. It was painful. The pot changed me in such a way that I saw something I've never seen before: the thought was painful because it forced me to become aware of a sinking feeling in my chest.
This wasn't a conclusion but a direct observation. It was sudden and the importance of it was immediate. I let out a gasp, my wife asked me what was wrong, "I just need to focus", I said. I sat there for a half hour contemplating the meaning of this experience, which was almost exactly what you conveyed in your post. This heart feeling in the center of the chest might just be one aspect of discomfort, and I have read about it, but have never seen that reflex before (its very quick).
I have not smoked pot since, but since then I have been paying attention to that feeling. It seems anything related to my perceived inadequacies brings about this sinking feeling in my chest, and it is this feeling, not the inadequacy, that I resist.
Pot often causes me to look at things that are uncomfortable. I think this is common and why people experience paranoia. One consequence of my admittedly extreme use of pot in the past is a skill in letting go, letting it be, not reacting to pain with more pain (i think this is what they mean when they say 'pain of pain').
Things are precisely how they present. That's that. It took years to clear the effect of drug induced distortion from practice, along with other effects.
This is my experience anyway, it is also the clear instruction of every teacher I've ever known without exception. I'm not judging, given my past it would be hypocritical.
Yup. I got into daily meditation around the same time I was using it everyday. But immediately decided to stop for like 3 days because it was a precept.
I 'realized' pretty bluntly it's no good for Dhamma practice. I decided take a week off the pot, focus on meditation and tried to balance. I think the best thing for me to do is just stop because Dhamma is just better.
naaaaaaaaaaaw mean?
I know cannabis can and should be prescribed for certain conditions, and in certain conditions it alleviates discomfort and is a legitimate substance.
Whether I agree with people "being locked in cages" or not, is not the point.
we live in a society where possession of this drug for either personal use or for selling on, is illegal.
Addressing those who create the laws for whatever reason, should be the focus, not targeting people's opinions, when something is already established and in place that seems to corroborate their views.
we can do jackshoot about it.
Could I also add at this point that the laws governing written content on public forums is also fairly clear:
Forum Administration and Moderation cannot be seen to be advocating, condoning or supporting the perpetration or intended perpetration of an illegal activity, through either contribution or permission to post such opinions.
In brief, anybody being seen to promote or advocate the taking of cannabis - or indeed, any other illegal substance - has to be asked/prevented to desist from doing so, or will be made to leave. To my regret, it has happened already.
Now, I'm not suggesting you have done that.
But as you still partake, and obviously object to the incarceration of people who use such drugs, I'm merely advising you of the consequences of such a move.
That's all.
Thanks.
.
I've never heard of that law, that's scary
What about freedom of speech?
There has to be a law to counter that. Sorry i'm not up do date with U.S. law
Alfa the Robot has spoken about this matter in his infinite wisdom!
http://www.ep.tc/problems/ten/
i'm personally not in favour of drugs in any form (legal, grey, illegal) because of the fifth precept. I have come to understand from personal experience (using and seeing other people use for a long period of time) that the karmatic impact of using toxic substances can be very very big and very very negative.
legalsing booze, sigarettes and prescription meds didn't REALLY work out either. Sure it helps stabalizing things, but it's no cure. In fact, it is now common good to use the three drugs mentioned. I just don't want another drug added to this list.
Over here in the Netherlands its not really legal, more grey, but still we have coffeeshops and stuff. It's not really working out.
I was one of these persons....I have a lot of willpower in life...truely a lot,
but not when it comes to cannabis...i used to be a true addict.
The high will turn over into (mild) depression, sooner or later it will, and then comes the apathy.
There are countless references on the Internet concerning these matters. Such laws also govern things like child pornography, and terrorism. Google it.
Free speech has little to do with freedom from responsibility.
However:
From here:
Whatever the legal Implications may be, whatever we may agree with or disagree with, is not the issue here, really.
The question is whether Cannabis (marijunana) should be legalised.
The fact is, it isn't or hasn't been.
Therefore, advocating or promoting the use of a classified illegal drug for recreational use, especially on a Buddhist forum, really is neither appropriate, nor skilful. And if you're a ptacticisng Buddhist, and you are using cannabis/marijuana for recreational purposes, there is something written which states that really you should refrain from doing so.
That's it, in a nutshell.
I really think we're done here.
Unless someone has something truly earth-shatteringly new or ground-breaking to add - that hasn't been addressed already -it would be timely and appropriate to call it a day.