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AD: Just as cancer is a sickness of the body, ignorance is a sickness of the mind.
S9: Yes, indeed. Cancer does not contribute to its host, nor is it ecological, in that it takes out of all proportion to what is sustainable by the body, and disrupts needed functions. In this same way, man has not considered his host, Mother, and is in this same way is killing her. (If you think about it, earth is our outer-most skin. Or, when we choke her streams and rivers, we are actually choking our owner-outer most circulation.)
AD: It is our sickness, not our nature, that causes us to harm our planet, and ourselves.
S9: Yes, unlike the Christians, I do not believe that man was “born in sin,” simply because of who he naturally is, Is corrupt. If this were the case, all our misapprehensions of how we should live, would not BE misapprehensions at all, and all of our troubles (troubled existence) would be making us very happy.
Check around. How many people do you know that can claim to be really happy, let alone satisfied?
Our unhappiness/dissatisfaction is surely a symptom of this illness, we all share.
We, like Lao Tzu said, have forgotten what our ‘human nature’ actually is, and must relearn this.
But, you and I certainly seem to be in agreement. So, I’ll stop flapping my lips. ; ^ )
R: From what little I know about Tonglen, it seems like a tough {in a positive sense} way to cultivate karuna - compassion.
S9: Why do you say that?
Q: H.H. The Dalai Lama, who is said to practice Tonglen, every day, has said of the technique: "Whether this meditation really helps others or not, it gives me peace of mind. Then I can be more effective, and the benefit is immense".
S9: To me Tonglen seems like developing an attitude, a good attitude.
Tonglen literally means “give and take.” (wiki) But, isn’t that how we act/think in any successful relationship with another?
We are actually not so powerful, that we can take someone’s bad karma, and give them our merit.
(If that were literally possible, than the opposite would also be true, and greedy merit seekers could grab our good karma right out from beneath our noses, no ones merit would be safe. But no one ever mentions this.)
This would be a little like a child thinking, “I hope dad dies, and when dad coincidentally dies, thinking he killed dad with his thoughts.”
However, the intension to do this is certainly a good way to see life as a shared thing with others, and to wipe out some of our notions of separation from others, don’t you agree?
No one is happy in a vacuum. We need others.
Q: “Shared happiness, is happiness doubled.” : ^ )
R: For Karuna Bhavana; my method is to visualize how I would feel if one of our grandchildren fell and got hurt or got in trouble. That emotion, I think is compassion.
S9: Yes, this would work well in developing compassion, as you can easily see your grandchildren as an extension of yourself.
I used to do something very similar, asking myself how I would react to a particular person acts, or words if in fact they were one of my children. Funny, I can find such a well of forgiveness in my heart, in this way.
Another little trick of mine is, when I see a heinous criminal, or a criminal insane killer/rapist, I remind myself that this person was somebody’s baby. Works like a charm every time. All of a sudden I am seeing them as ill instead of evil, and looking for a cure as apposed to my inventing horrible punishments. (By the way, jail time IS horrible.)
I have an old friend who went to jail because he would not go to Vietnam. It was against his principles. It isn’t pretty what jail time (2 years) does to a person; (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome). It scars them deeply, and haunts them continually, for life.
R: If sadism & schadenfreude; deriving pleasure from others' suffering, are far opposites of karuna, I suspect pity is the near opposite.
S9: Pity is a stepchild of compassion. If pity is all that you can manage, then I agree, it is a beginning in the right direction, a little like training wheels. ; ^ )
What does transmigration mean?
I don't like how Christians say we're borned with sin, you haven't add a chance to be bad in this life and your already blamed. And as if being splashed with a bit of water that's 'holy' makes a blind bit of difference, and confessing your sins is OK but I'd much rather be making up for them, (have you seen My Name is Earl?). How can somebody dieing make up for our sins, as I see it humanity had just pushed some one to be killed. Adam and Eve eating an apple wasn't fair on us either (why should we be punished?), my Dad's racist, he's sexist, he's prejudiced, and should I be punished? I love every nice person, no matter of beliefs (as long as they're wholesome) or race.
Christianity is so unfair I want to walk up to God and have the biggest tantrom ever LOL.
Joe
I don't hate paedophiles as much as I could. Just like Bi/Hetro/Homo/sexuality paedophiles have their sexual *winces* preferences. Of course I, and any sane person, wouldn't reccomend paedophiles *feels quesy* to act upon it.
On a lighter note what you said about the boy thinking his father's death ws his fault. I usually laugh at supersticion but I don't like to hope people die or think frightening things incase they happen, I guess I'm just silly, it's uncoincidently impossible.
What does transmigration mean?
I don't like how Christians say we're borned with sin, you haven't add a chance to be bad in this life and your already blamed. And as if being splashed with a bit of water that's 'holy' makes a blind bit of difference, and confessing your sins is OK but I'd much rather be making up for them, (have you seen My Name is Earl?). How can somebody dieing make up for our sins, as I see it humanity had just pushed some one to be killed. Adam and Eve eating an apple wasn't fair on us either (why should we be punished?), my Dad's racist, he's sexist, he's prejudiced, and should I be punished? I love every nice person, no matter of beliefs (as long as they're wholesome) or race.
Christianity is so unfair I want to walk up to God and have the biggest tantrom ever LOL.
Joe
>>> I don't like how Christians say we're borned with sin, you haven't add a chance to be bad in this life and your already blamed.
Karma from previous existences? Collective Karma? Kleshas? Defiled Citta?
What Christianity is missing is Original or Innate Awakening 本覚
R: From what little I know about Tonglen, it seems like a tough {in a positive sense} way to cultivate karuna - compassion.
S9: Why do you say that?
If it literally works, taking someone's bad karma, and giving them one's merit; just seems very tough. I have enough of my own bad karma to deal with. :buck:
There is something to sacrificing oneself. Like pushing a child out of the way of an oncoming vehicle; with the risk one will get hit instead. Or the soldier who dives on a grenade. Cops who put themselves at risk to keep the streets safe.
Then there is trying to save someone who is a bad influence. Generally, unless a person has accumulated a lot of merit; the bad influence wins out. There is a concept of good friend and bad friend that is found in most forms of Buddhism,
Kalyana mitta/mitra 善知識 Good companion, Positive Influence
Ku-mitra 惡知識 Evil companion, Bad Influence
Of course it doesn't literally work. The point of it is to bring an end to self-cherishing, desire and aversion by cultivating a mindset in which one is prepared to give up the things one desires and take on the things one dislikes.
If it literally works, taking someone's bad karma, and giving them one's merit; just seems very tough. I have enough of my own bad karma to deal with.
This is precisely why people have advised seeking a teacher to provide proper teachings and guidance of this practice. Dazzle's words have now been shown to be spot-on: "As I stated before, it has caused distress in sensitive people who then panicked and 'felt' that they had actually absorbed the suffering of others."
This is not what the practice is meant to be, you are not taking on everyone's negative kamma and giving away all your merit. Kamma is a mindset. You can not literally take on someone else's kamma.
Tonglen is a personal practice to cultivate karuna, selflessness, metta etc. within one's own self... to cultivate another mindset. This is where the true benefits of any such practice, including others such as dedication of merit, really take place. As the Dalai Lama said: "Whether this meditation really helps others or not, it gives me peace of mind. Then I can be more effective, and the benefit is immense."
S9: Transmigration is like reincarnation; accept it is not limited to just human births. You could come back as an orangutan next time.
I think that karma comes awfully close to being like ‘original sin’ when misunderstood, in this way.
Here you are walking along one sunny afternoon, and trying to be a pretty good guy, all in all, and along comes a pay back (like being hit by a bus going 60 MPH), just because some guy you never knew, and never wanted to know, drove drunk 100 years ago…Call that fair? : ^ ) I DON’T THINK SO!
I think if your study how the church gains both power and wealth, you will come to understand why it is in their self-interest to keep everyone feeling guilty.
Q: “We were not created in Gods image. God is created in the image of man.”
R: I usually laugh at superstition, but I don't like to hope people die or think frightening things incase they happen, I guess I'm just silly.
S9: Perhaps, but I won’t be walking under any ladders. ‘First of all cover your ass’…kind of thing.
F: The point of it is to bring an end to self-cherishing, desire and aversion by cultivating a mindset in which one is prepared to give up the things one desires and take on the things one dislikes.
S9: You are very right. But, I believe you left out one of the major ingredients…compassion.
This calls for extending beyond what is only good for us, or Spiritual Materialism.
Lets face it. Giving up in this way is actually getting...spelled backwards.
R: If it literally works, taking someone's bad karma, and giving them one's merit; just seems very tough. I have enough of my own bad karma to deal with.
S9: A little like hanging on a cross, don’t you think?
R: Then there is trying to save someone who is a bad influence. Generally, unless a person has accumulated a lot of merit; the bad influence wins out. There is a concept of good friend and bad friend that is found in most forms of Buddhism,
S9: I like to think that I have enough character, or integrity, not to be putty on the hands of circumstance/fate. But, maybe thats just ego. : ^ )
The practice of Tonglen could be problematic for those who are very sensitive. However, it should not be regarded to be a dangerous practice. As Five Bells and Mundus have indicated, Tonglen is another tool for developing a compassionate mindset. When "receiving" others suffering, one is not literally taking on other's bad karma. Rather, the practice is a means to develop Bodhicitta; the aspiration to benefit all sentinet beings.
Transmigration- that's what I always thought Reincarnation was...
I think if your study how the church gains both power and wealth, you will come to understand why it is in their self-interest to keep everyone feeling guilty.
That is why I never go to church, oh poo, I've got to go there in a choir next week
I wouldn't walk under a ladder because it would be probobly be to close to the wall. In the summer I always shade under scaffolding... LOL
Anything that the mind can come up with is usually for more complex than at first sight, or until it is dumbed down as some might wish.
So transmigration is another wrinkle on the same old theme of rebirth. I also like the Astrological idea about ‘growing lives’ (the ones that kick you around so you can learn and grow), and the ‘resting lives’ (that give you a break) The astrologists claim to able to read this in your natal chart. I have had a growing life, and sure enough there it was printed out in black and white on my chart.
However, in this very life, I have noticed that Spiritual growth definitely pulses too, just like most of nature pulses, like our breath, or our sleep cycles, etc. Nature loves a duplicating theme.
By the way, are you familiar with Carlos Castaneda’s books about Shamanism? These are very fun books written as novels. (Very assessable with dull writing to get past.) I read all of his books, (a guilty pleasure for my more serious self). ; ^ )
They are about an anthropologist Carlos who studies under a Shaman, Don Juan, and they are full of magical events like shape shifting. A good read.
I will never forget an experience I had many years ago, long before I'd ever heard of tonglen. I was experimenting with some sort of deep meditation. I can't remember what I was trying to accomplish, exactly, but what happened was very powerful and unexpected.
I have always been sensitive to the suffering of animals at the hands of humans. Somehow in my meditation, I tapped into the suffering of ALL animals, everywhere, all at once. I really felt it, and it completely overwhelmed me. I was utterly unprepared for anything like that, and it ripped me apart. I cried and cried, unable to find a place for all that sorrow and suffering. I recovered, in time, but the experience profoundly affected me. It took me years to come to peace with what I had uncovered.
Had I been familiar with the practice of tonglen, it might have provided me the proper outlet for my emotions. I was in no way ready for what I experienced. For tonglen to be beneficial, you must be able to take on suffering and return joy. This means completely letting go, abandoning the instinctive desire to repel painful experiences, dissolving the ego in an infinite pool of compassion. Taking on suffering without letting go of the "self" results in personalizing all that pain, making it impossible to transform it into peace. I think this is the danger in approaching tonglen without the necessary understanding. You wind up with an experience much like my own, which can really twist you up for a while.
Some time ago, I was reading a book about the misuse of animals in the USA by the persons raising these poor creatures as food. I absolutely hated that book, (Hate/Hate/ Hate). But, I gritted my teeth and read on, because I wanted to be informed, perhaps to help in some way, and not to stick my head in the sand like an ostrich.
The pig is a very sensitive animal, and actually smarter than most of the brightest dogs, and very affectionate. Even so, big business crowds these poor little creatures together in such a way that, it makes their life becomes unbearable for them. They become very highly nervous, and high-strung to the extreme.
One day, a fellow new to caring for these little pigs, in such a physical climate, and not really understanding how very delicate they were, went out the door and slammed it. It seems that at that very moment, because of that thoughtless act, a good number of these little pigs fell over dead from the shock. Damn!
Being informed wasn’t going to be in the cards for me. That is when I slammed that book closed, and never was tempted to reopen it.
Still if you think about it, I didn’t really take on the pain of those animals, physically. What I took on was, what I thought it must be like to be one of those little pigs, and my own horror about how they are treated. If I actually had taken on all of their pain, I would be dead from the physical trauma.
One of the problems with living on this earth is; in order to preserve our own sanity, we must often and repeatedly turn our backs on the suffering of others, both people and animals. This is a very sad state of affairs.
Just watching the TV nightly is like jabbing ourselves in the eye with a needle. So, we harden our hearts out of necessity. But, this doesn’t make it right.
I have become very sensitive lately, I have come to strongly believe in Mother Earth as a Goddess of sorts, and it really upsets me when people mistreat her and the nice little animals that live on her, both of your stories have enlightened me to the suffering of animals even more. Not last week in English we were supposed to be reading on ballads but I flicked through the text book and found about farming, to my disgust I discovered 90% (!) of farming in England is factory farming, not just chickens but dozens of animals of all different species crammed into cages not much bigger than themselves. Their needs are completely ignored and are only kept alive by being crammed full of drugs. Chickens are crammed five in a cage for all there life, the cage for five chickens in shorter than one chickens wing span and each chicken has under an A4 piece of paper! And this is Legal! I was shocked. (To the teacher I must have found the ballad 'Lady Diamond' rather emotional LOL).
I am really interested in working for Green Peace when I'm older. I like the idea of saving Mother Earth and animals and the Rainforest and supporting equal rights and preventing wars ekcetra.
Joe:)
I think it is easier to love and trust animals, especially young animals like kittens and puppies, because they aren’t as challenging to your well-being as people seem to be.
One big thing is that animals don’t seem to judge you, what is often called unconditional love. I think however it would be good for your own well-being to understand, or start to see that people are just little animals, too. This will take a while. This will be a difficult task. Mostly because, at first, we lack personal self-confidence and feel that we must defend.
It seems to be human nature to want peace and love in their world. But both of these things, peace and love, only happen in the world, one person at a time. In other words, we find peace and love within our selves, and only then can we share these gifts. If we dislike someone, already there is a snake in the garden (Eden).
I think when people disregard, our little animal friends, it is a symptom of emotional/mental illness in them. Such disregard cannot live side by side with self-love. There is definitely a snake in their garden. I don’t believe getting angry with them is going to help though. Worst, it introduces that sickness (hate and disregard) into our personal/subjective garden. So something is spreading. But, not what we wanted to spread.
Outcomes can tell us a lot.
I think is you “follow your heart,” into Green Peace, or whatever, it will bring you happiness.
Hi S9,
I do see humans as animals more than most people (and most say 'we're not'). You know when you went to school and the teacher probobly informs you you're animals; they are right. (They mean it in a different way but still.)
I survived church LOL. We just had to sing carols and hyms that make me feel like a horrid little lier, but I have a gift of transforming the words slightly so they match my beliefs. Other people transformed the words although I don't think "Rudolph will you guide my wife tonight" and "away in a minge-er" were meant as wholesomely as my 'lyric-changing' I still got a fair few glares from a teacher for talking but oh well. My Goth friend though has an odd 'deep respect' for church grounds though which is strange to say he hates Christianity.
Joe:o
I have become very sensitive lately, I have come to strongly believe in Mother Earth as a Goddess of sorts, and it really upsets me when people mistreat her and the nice little animals that live on her, both of your stories have enlightened me to the suffering of animals even more. Not last week in English we were supposed to be reading on ballads but I flicked through the text book and found about farming, to my disgust I discovered 90% (!) of farming in England is factory farming, not just chickens but dozens of animals of all different species crammed into cages not much bigger than themselves. Their needs are completely ignored and are only kept alive by being crammed full of drugs. Chickens are crammed five in a cage for all there life, the cage for five chickens in shorter than one chickens wing span and each chicken has under an A4 piece of paper! And this is Legal! I was shocked. (To the teacher I must have found the ballad 'Lady Diamond' rather emotional LOL).
I am really interested in working for Green Peace when I'm older. I like the idea of saving Mother Earth and animals and the Rainforest and supporting equal rights and preventing wars ekcetra.
Joe:)
Hi, Joe.
I used to work for Greenpeace so if you have any questions you can PM me. It's been my experience that people have many misconceptions about what Greenpeace is and what it does. The actions of other groups have become somewhat enmeshed over the years in the public's mind with the work Greenpeace has done and there are other confusions that persist as well. One such confusion is that of animal rights. Greenpeace is not an animal rights group and it gets involved only in cases of endangerment to species and habitat.
Don’t let it get you down that you have to “go along to get along.” That won’t really hurt your integrity, if they a small ways of simply ‘co-operating,’ (AKA cooperating) with others.
How many times do we have to smile, so as not to hurt someone’s feelings, when we just aren’t in the mood? “Bah Humbug”
How many times do we just not open our (big fat) mouth, and let someone know (in spades) that they are stupid.
Life isn’t lived like it is the “Whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.” Part of being civilized is “knowing when to keep a few things to your self.”
In a whirl of emotions, I recently sent an impulsive angry e-mail to someone who was ignoring me. I knew I was burning my bridge with that person but at the time I didn't care.
Now it's days later and I have been suffering from the shame of saying things I should not have said. I'm having a difficult time forgiving myself. I know that I need to accept my mistake and learn from it but I'm currently stuck in a paralyzing shame...self-hatred even.
In a whirl of emotions, I recently sent an impulsive angry e-mail to someone who was ignoring me. I knew I was burning my bridge with that person but at the time I didn't care.
Now it's days later and I have been suffering from the shame of saying things I should not have said. I'm having a difficult time forgiving myself. I know that I need toaccept my mistake and learn from it but I'm currently stuck in a paralyzing shame...self-hatred even.
Sounds lke you already know what needs to be done, maybe you don't believe it though. Perhaps you just need the message brainwashed into you deeper. So I would recommend listening to some Ajahn Brahm talks, he really drives the point home.
Also know that change often comes about slowly. If you have a habit of saying things that are harmful to others and a habit of holding on to feelings of guilt, these habits may take time to break completely. Therefore you must be patient with yourself. How many times should you forgive yourself? Always forgive yourself ONE MORE TIME!
If there appears to be no improvement over time, then maybe it is time to see a counsellor.
Forgiving oneself is perhaps the hardest thing to do of all. But it's worth the effort. Perhaps a confessional practice?
As for the original subject of this thread, when something like that happens to me I try to remember that I am just experiencing the reflection of my own mind, the hatred, greed, and ignorance that continue to run rampant there even after years of practice. It is, after all, just phenomena. One should use such experiences as one's teacher. If it wasn't in my mind, then I wouldn't be experiencing it.
Dealing with anger is sometimes more difficult than dealing with the cause of anger, because the cat is already out of the bag and raging.
It might be more effective to look behind your anger and deal with the fear that is the mother of anger. In order to do this we must watch ourselves vigilantly and catch thing in their beginning or at their smallest point. After all it is far easier to calm a kitten than it is to calm a raging tiger.
Distance yourself from these emotions by reminding your (ego) self that, “These are not me. I am not fear. I am not anger. I am not shame. These are emotional storms going on around me and I need not buy into them, or identify my (ego) self as them. .”
In this way you can also abort the need to justify them in any given moment.
There is a website called compassionpower.com that suggests the root of our anger and it is indeed fear. And a lack of self-compassion. The harder we are on ourselves, and the more we are critical, the more frustrated we become and so the anger grows.
When it comes to anger, a lot of things don't work and anger management courses is one of them. They don't consider the problem from its' roots. They usually build self-deprecating behavior by trying to control, self criticize and practice being angry (venting).
When you introduce parts of you that are value laden such as kindness, patience and compassion, and begin to recognize your strengths, the task is much easier.
Golden, when you lost your temper, you lost yourself. Go to that place where you feel angry, but also go to that place where you hold values. They will help you through it. As it is now, you have hijacked your values and encouraged them to lay a beating on you.
Er, i think i should point out that i have had operations that leave me with walking difficulties, thats why im a sitting duck to muggers and yobs etc.
I cant really send out any other 'signal' apart from "mug me and i'll shove my cane up your arse"
Train to use your cane.
There are a number of martial arts that use canes or cane like weapons for fighting.
I would also imagine that being hit with a cane actually hurts more than being punched or kicked.
I have had experience in a number of martial arts including Kendo (japanese sword fighting) Aikido (uses wooden swords) and Kenpo Karate (which at higher levels use cane like sticks).
On a couple of occasions I have been hit by a wooden sword, and I can tell you that one hit can hurt like hell!
I got hit once on the elbow during Kendo, and the bamboo sword actually chipped my bone and my arm bruised and swelled up for a few weeks. That is just one hit!
Easy not to fight and give advice when you live in a monestry and everyone is being nice. Now if you live in the city, around the dirty and gritty, then life's aint the same, in fact it's much more shitty!
Circumstances dictate to some extent experiences available.
If you are in the worlds roughests prison, surrounded by sadistic violent dishonest criminals that include murderers. serial killers, rapists, con men and pedo's, then the experiences available to you will be different than the ones available to you if you are living among Buddhist Monks who's aim in life is to free entire existence of their suffering.
Doesn't matter how good you are talking or meditating, if you are constantly having to fend off predators, you will have no time to meditate and will more likely suffer more.
So, my advice, if you are experiencing problems where you live, and the problems are greater than your resistence, then find your self somewhere better to live, as circumstances do have an effect on your well being.
Why do you think monks moved into a monastery?
And why do you think Shaolin Kung Fu was invented?
In this life, you must act as necessity dictates. But even if you are in a fight to the death, you do not need to get angry. You only need to fight with skill...and stop when your purpose is accomplished.
Anger will just steal your clear attention to details from you. It is better to be, at all times, on top of your game. This doesn’t require pretending…even pretending to be nice.
"This first, above all else...Be true to yourself."
Thanks for the advice.
I totally understand and I agree that to be free of anger in all circumstances is the ultimate goal. However I know that not everyone faces the same circumstances and that some face greater challenges than others.
It is also quiet a common phenomena when encountering a violent conflict to experience the fight and flight response. This is often a natural response for many, as it is the inbuilt response for humans and has helped humans survive conflicts over the millenia.
If people suffer from this response, do not worry, there are solutions to this problem.
Geoff Thompson, a highly experienced doorman / body guard / Mixed Martial Artist wrote a book about his experiences and solutions that address the problems.
His book is called Fear: Friend of Exceptional People.
For those who have phobias, who have panic attacks or are flusted when confronted with certain circumstances, I can recommend this book as it gives some solutions that may help.
Personally, I have no problem when faced with violent conflict in itself. I worry more about the consequences as I do not want to be arrested and end up in prison, and do not especially want to put anyone in prison or hospital either.
As this is not my nature.
Although I have done martial arts for several years, I am not a physically violent individual out side of the training hall and go out of my way to avoid violent conflict.
As for prison. I have seen the damage that is done by prison, to individuals and to those who are related and love them. In my opinion, it is not the ultimate cure for any criminal tendencies as prisons only remove the criminal from society, prisons do not remove the criminality.
Otherwise, thanks for your kind regards.
Peace and love to you too!
:-)
I just try to ignore them, generally all they want is to provoke you. if you get angry, you are giving them what they want. I block it out and recite the Heart Sutra in my head (normally in Mandarin, but only because it sounds better to me) until they give up and go away.
If they persist, then I leave. But you would be surprised at how quickly they divert their attention elsewhere if you pretend they don't exist.
Our police force and judicial service do protect us to the best of their abillity but are beset with their own issues .. to name but a few; under funding, unrealistic administration loads, unobtainable targets and a bureaucratic stranglehold of polictical correctness.
I know this is a long way off from this original post but from someone else in England, I have to agree.
I live in a nice-ish city, or at least it was. Even so, I was walking home and someone was going to mug me (A known drug addict) when luckily some people came along and he ran off. I called the police and they told me they had just had a man mugged a few streets away and the mugger was of the same description. I had a lucky escape.
on anger. I guess if its aggressive violence I would do what ever it takes to stay safe as I can: run, hand over the money...whatever.
If its words I think Id try to ask questions and feed back what has been said.
Like: So you think I am a fool. What have I done to make you think that?
Or: you sound really angry with me. Why is that?
Of course easier said than done if someone wants to get right inside your head. Its hard to keep them out, but not impossible.
This is an interesting topic. I was just looking at Theravadin Abhidhamma, There are 4 unwholesome mental states listed, that are grouped as aversive states:
Dosa / Dvesha 瞋: Hatred, anger, loathing -- from a root word that means a response to an annoying sound. This is the root, sometimes given as patigha or arati
Issa / Irsya: Envy, jealousy, covetousness
Macchariya / Matsarya: Stinginess, miserliness, not sharing.
That is purely academic. One thing, I found it curious that envy and stinginess would be grouped here, with aversive states. I would relate them more to the greed - attraction group. Also, I would tend to think of anxiety more in connection with delusion. At any rate, the greedy mental states are sort of the near opposites of the aversive. The general root of the greedy afflictions is given as any of three words; each of which also has a specific nuance.
Lobha: Cupidity, greed, avarice. A cognate of the word love, it usually has the specific nuance of avarice; the greedy desire to acquire and keep wealth, property, and so on.
Raga: Attachment, possessiveness, passion, in the sense of ardent affection for things we already have or possess.
Kama: The lusty desire for pleasing sensual contact that we do not presently have. Not just erotic lust, btw. It could also be for good food, pleasant surroundings, or other creature comforts.
There are two other related afflictions:
Mana-Mada: Pride, arrogance, vanity, conceit
Ditthi, drishti: Opinionated views, one sided perspective
These two groups of afflicted mental states; the aversive and attractive, kind of work together. We tend to see things in terms of what we like and dislike. People will usually think their own hatred and anger is justified, because it is directed against things, people, events, ideas, groups, and so on that appear to threaten whatever it is they cherish; what they think is worth fighting for. The advanced solution is to cultivate what is called viraga. No, not viagra. Vi- means dis-; viraga means detachment, non-attachment, disinterest, dispassion, or objectivity.
If we stop looking at things in terms of what we like and do not like, what pleases or offends us; then we can begin to see things as they actually are, instead of what we wish them to be.
Meanwhile, there are some specific wholesome mental states that we can cultivate to serve as antidotes for; to counteract anger and hatred:
Metta, maitri: Kindness, amity, good will, friendliness.
Karuna: Compassion, empathy for the suffering of others.
Mudita: Appreciative or mutual joy, being happy for and proud of other's successes. The opposite of envy.
Upekha, upeksha: Equipoise, equanimity. Keeping a level head in the face of the 'eight winds' {praise or blame, joy or suffering, fame or disgrace, gain or loss}.
Khanti / Kshanti: Forbearance, tolerance, patience. Forgiving patience for things, people, actions, that do not deserve it.
There are prayers, chants, and hymns to awaken these states. We can also arouse them by thinking of a situation in which we have felt them. For example, a parent naturally feels mudita joy if their child does well, and feels karuna compassion if their child suffers. Or they will easily forgive and tolerate their child's shortcomings. The idea is to expand these kindly emotions to all people; to all beings, not just those we favor.
There are a couple of guided meditative visualizations to do this. With one, we direct the desired wholesome mental state toward 4 kinds of people; a respected person, a loved one, a neutral person, and a hostile person. With the other, we suffuse 'waves' or 'vibes' of the healing emotion in the 'Ten Directions.'
In Wicca it's different because of the Threefold Law (which is different to karma). If you read the whole of the Wiccan Rede (not the summarised version of "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"), you will see that, depending on what version you read (there are several out there by now), there is a "loophole" around it.
The first Wiccan Rede was recorded in writing in 1934 by a Traditional British Witch. It has since undergone countless revisions as different traditions/paths of Wicca have sprung up.
But as I said before, the Wiccan Rede still has its loophole (an it harm none, do what thou wilt, except when someone does you harm first), whereas Karma has nowhere to run to baby
In metta,
Raven
PS - I was a Gardnerian Wiccan priestess for almost 15 years and am happy to PM you some sources if it's something of personal interest to you
I have to correct a few things here. Wicca is not atheistic. If you view the God and Goddess as archetypes that is your choice (as with some other Pagans who still consider themselves Pagan and not atheist). It was a view popularised by Carl Jung.
Polytheism is what you would be if you considered ALL Goddesses and Gods to be individual deities, not facets of the God or Goddess.
Dualistic is the simplified definition of most Wiccans. But experience has taught me that this is only a very small number of Wiccans. Most have their set beliefs in particular God and Goddess, or they are monolatorous (see definition in next paragraph).
Monotheistic is simply incorrect because the God and Goddess are always considered two parts. Monotheism claims only one God in one form which is not a Wiccan or Pagan definition. I think in this you are mistaking monotheism for monolatory - where all Gods and Goddesses are part of the One Divine/Creator/Spirit.
I think exploring Wicca is always an option for people, but I would encourage you to find reliable sources both on and off the net. I am happy to give you some suggestions if you're interested.
The Wiccan God and Goddess are a bit confusing...
Let me explain; they are both Atheistic, Polytheistic, Duotheistic, and Monotheistic...
Atheist: The God and Goddess are, to some, such as I, more metaphorical figures; yes.
Monotheistic: The God and Goddess are entwined together, as, in a way, one. (Hence the calling of your partner 'your other half').
Duotheistic: God and Goddess.
Polytheist: Usualy with in a number of Gods and Goddesses one or maybe a couple or even a few are considered more powerful or more worshipped than the others. In Wiccan mostly the Goddess is most worshipped. Some sects don't even worship the God!
The God is considered the sun and the Goddess the moon. I find this interesting because with out the sun and moon, life, if any, would be very different. I see the God as the one who sparked life and the Goddess as the mother, slowly changing the world as a baby is changed in the mother's womb, and possibly life is set for something more different...:)
On another note I doubt reincarnation and karma if it is not untrue would act entirely of it's kind. My beliefs are really like no others, so I just have to participate in a couple of religions and read about them all to allow my beliefs to blossom and ripen...
Life ‘IS’ meditation, and done correctly meditation ‘IS’ life.
What I mean by this is that, meditation can get up off the cushion, can open its eyes, and can travel with you constantly. But remembering to meditate is a skill that must be learned through vigorous intention, attention, and never giving up.
Brother Lawrence said pretty much the same thing when he said, “Pray constantly.”
The way that I accomplish this way of living to come alive is to make everything I do, every chore here on my farm into a miniature meditation, is by mindfulness of my breath in conjunction with what I am presently doing within any given moment. So I have a ‘picking the string beans/breath meditation,’ a ‘picking the tomatoes/breath meditation,’ a ‘peeling the apples/breath meditation,’ a ‘brushing my teeth/breath meditation,’ a ‘taking a little walk/breath meditation,’ I think you can see my point here. Breath doesn't make me only 1/2 present, because I breathe into my doing.
Anything, you do daily, can become a meditation simply by watching your breath closely and superimposing the movement of breath right on top of any old thing, at all. With time this becomes easier and more constant. Instead of a chore or just one more thing to do, it turns into a love affair. Grin!
I had a friend who for years wore an elastic band on his wrist to remind himself to watch his breath, whenever he noticed it there. Another friend, who was a constant clock-watcher, used every time he peeked at a clock or his watch as a reminder. Really anything like that can help you until a strong habit starts to form.
In this way, everything in your life is there to help you, to teach you, and not seen as some kind of an obstruction to meditation…even ‘the terrible routine violence of jail meditation’ can remind you of calming breath. Perhaps even ‘fighting for your life meditation’ can work to strengthen your resolve to be free. Smile!
Monotheistic is simply incorrect because the God and Goddess are always considered two parts. Monotheism claims only one God in one form which is not a Wiccan or Pagan definition. I think in this you are mistaking monotheism for monolatory - where all Gods and Goddesses are part of the One Divine/Creator/Spirit.
Just a quick clarification (because I'm a dictionary nerdlinger). Monolatry is the sole worship of one god within a pantheon, because the believer believes that god is superior to the rest. I think the term you mean is soft polytheism, where the gods/goddess are seen as aspects of an overarching divinity.
I am winging it here, as to ‘the why’ of a scholarly grouping of anger and greed under the same heading, but perhaps it may be because, they (anger and greed) are both birthed by the same mother, (aka fear).
Greed being a lack of trust, or the fear that you won’t have enough in order to be fully satisfied or happy...fearing a lack or emptiness at some level.
Anger, on the other hand, being the fear that what you have, either your self definition, your wealth, or even your bodily well being, can be ripped away from you by circumstance or another.
So we have greed grabbing and anger pushing away (a kind of yin/yang) in order to acquire safety.
Do you think that that has anything to do with it?
Life ‘IS’ meditation, and done correctly meditation ‘IS’ life.
S9/Leslie
Dear S9,
Thank you for the advice.
I do have a fair knowledge of zen / Chan.
I also like the idea of using martial arts as the vehicle for meditation and to develop will power (like those almost invincible Shaolin monks).
Thanks for your time and effort.
Peace and Love
DeVoid
Just for the record, about 99.9999% of pedophiles are heterosexual males.
Sorry to return to this comment. Just find it a bit of a bizarre comment to post. Completely off topic.
Incidentally, I also think that the figures are way out.
As from my recollection from cases that have been in local and national papers, their seems to be quiet a few homosexual cases as well as some cases where there are woman involved too.
Not that I am particularly interested in such things, as I find the subject quiet disturbing and saddening.
I believe that such things are due to a terrible sickness that people suffer from, a sickness that is beyond my comprehension and which I am fortunate enough not to suffer from.
May these people who suffer from this sickness be well and may they stop harming the innocent.
In Wicca it's different because of the Threefold Law (which is different to karma). If you read the whole of the Wiccan Rede (not the summarised version of "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"), you will see that, depending on what version you read (there are several out there by now), there is a "loophole" around it.
The first Wiccan Rede was recorded in writing in 1934 by a Traditional British Witch. It has since undergone countless revisions as different traditions/paths of Wicca have sprung up.
But as I said before, the Wiccan Rede still has its loophole (an it harm none, do what thou wilt, except when someone does you harm first), whereas Karma has nowhere to run to baby
In metta,
Raven
PS - I was a Gardnerian Wiccan priestess for almost 15 years and am happy to PM you some sources if it's something of personal interest to you
Thank you, I'll keep it in mind. All beliefs have their shortcomings, but most people are at least a little eclectic, as I've found with some Wiccans Some Wiccans will believe in the whole Rede, others won't.
Sorry to return to this comment. Just find it a bit of a bizarre comment to post. Completely off topic.
Incidentally, I also think that the figures are way out.
As from my recollection from cases that have been in local and national papers, their seems to be quiet a few homosexual cases as well as some cases where there are woman involved too.
Not that I am particularly interested in such things, as I find the subject quiet disturbing and saddening.
I believe that such things are due to a terrible sickness that people suffer from, a sickness that is beyond my comprehension and which I am fortunate enough not to suffer from.
May these people who suffer from this sickness be well and may they stop harming the innocent.
Peace.
I don't think sexuality has anything to do with the ability for paedophilia. But the percentage of straight and gay people, only 0.001 % of paedos being gay is very unlikely.
Comments
AD: Just as cancer is a sickness of the body, ignorance is a sickness of the mind.
S9: Yes, indeed. Cancer does not contribute to its host, nor is it ecological, in that it takes out of all proportion to what is sustainable by the body, and disrupts needed functions. In this same way, man has not considered his host, Mother, and is in this same way is killing her. (If you think about it, earth is our outer-most skin. Or, when we choke her streams and rivers, we are actually choking our owner-outer most circulation.)
AD: It is our sickness, not our nature, that causes us to harm our planet, and ourselves.
S9: Yes, unlike the Christians, I do not believe that man was “born in sin,” simply because of who he naturally is, Is corrupt. If this were the case, all our misapprehensions of how we should live, would not BE misapprehensions at all, and all of our troubles (troubled existence) would be making us very happy.
Check around. How many people do you know that can claim to be really happy, let alone satisfied?
Our unhappiness/dissatisfaction is surely a symptom of this illness, we all share.
We, like Lao Tzu said, have forgotten what our ‘human nature’ actually is, and must relearn this.
But, you and I certainly seem to be in agreement. So, I’ll stop flapping my lips. ; ^ )
Warm Regards,
S9
L: I do actually believe animals are people with a different body.
S9: Do you believe in transmigration?
The Golden Compass looks interesting. Thanx
I will order it from Netflix. I’m an unreformed movie junkie.
Friendly Regards,
S9
R: From what little I know about Tonglen, it seems like a tough {in a positive sense} way to cultivate karuna - compassion.
S9: Why do you say that?
Q: H.H. The Dalai Lama, who is said to practice Tonglen, every day, has said of the technique: "Whether this meditation really helps others or not, it gives me peace of mind. Then I can be more effective, and the benefit is immense".
S9: To me Tonglen seems like developing an attitude, a good attitude.
Tonglen literally means “give and take.” (wiki) But, isn’t that how we act/think in any successful relationship with another?
We are actually not so powerful, that we can take someone’s bad karma, and give them our merit.
(If that were literally possible, than the opposite would also be true, and greedy merit seekers could grab our good karma right out from beneath our noses, no ones merit would be safe. But no one ever mentions this.)
This would be a little like a child thinking, “I hope dad dies, and when dad coincidentally dies, thinking he killed dad with his thoughts.”
However, the intension to do this is certainly a good way to see life as a shared thing with others, and to wipe out some of our notions of separation from others, don’t you agree?
No one is happy in a vacuum. We need others.
Q: “Shared happiness, is happiness doubled.” : ^ )
R: For Karuna Bhavana; my method is to visualize how I would feel if one of our grandchildren fell and got hurt or got in trouble. That emotion, I think is compassion.
S9: Yes, this would work well in developing compassion, as you can easily see your grandchildren as an extension of yourself.
I used to do something very similar, asking myself how I would react to a particular person acts, or words if in fact they were one of my children. Funny, I can find such a well of forgiveness in my heart, in this way.
Another little trick of mine is, when I see a heinous criminal, or a criminal insane killer/rapist, I remind myself that this person was somebody’s baby. Works like a charm every time. All of a sudden I am seeing them as ill instead of evil, and looking for a cure as apposed to my inventing horrible punishments. (By the way, jail time IS horrible.)
I have an old friend who went to jail because he would not go to Vietnam. It was against his principles. It isn’t pretty what jail time (2 years) does to a person; (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome). It scars them deeply, and haunts them continually, for life.
R: If sadism & schadenfreude; deriving pleasure from others' suffering, are far opposites of karuna, I suspect pity is the near opposite.
S9: Pity is a stepchild of compassion. If pity is all that you can manage, then I agree, it is a beginning in the right direction, a little like training wheels. ; ^ )
Warm Regards,
S9
__________________
I don't like how Christians say we're borned with sin, you haven't add a chance to be bad in this life and your already blamed. And as if being splashed with a bit of water that's 'holy' makes a blind bit of difference, and confessing your sins is OK but I'd much rather be making up for them, (have you seen My Name is Earl?). How can somebody dieing make up for our sins, as I see it humanity had just pushed some one to be killed. Adam and Eve eating an apple wasn't fair on us either (why should we be punished?), my Dad's racist, he's sexist, he's prejudiced, and should I be punished? I love every nice person, no matter of beliefs (as long as they're wholesome) or race.
Christianity is so unfair I want to walk up to God and have the biggest tantrom ever LOL.
Joe
On a lighter note what you said about the boy thinking his father's death ws his fault. I usually laugh at supersticion but I don't like to hope people die or think frightening things incase they happen, I guess I'm just silly, it's uncoincidently impossible.
>>> I don't like how Christians say we're borned with sin, you haven't add a chance to be bad in this life and your already blamed.
Karma from previous existences? Collective Karma? Kleshas? Defiled Citta?
What Christianity is missing is Original or Innate Awakening 本覚
>>> How can somebody dieing make up for our sins
Tonglen? Parinamana 迴向 or 廻向 Transfer of Merit
If it literally works, taking someone's bad karma, and giving them one's merit; just seems very tough. I have enough of my own bad karma to deal with. :buck:
There is something to sacrificing oneself. Like pushing a child out of the way of an oncoming vehicle; with the risk one will get hit instead. Or the soldier who dives on a grenade. Cops who put themselves at risk to keep the streets safe.
Then there is trying to save someone who is a bad influence. Generally, unless a person has accumulated a lot of merit; the bad influence wins out. There is a concept of good friend and bad friend that is found in most forms of Buddhism,
Kalyana mitta/mitra 善知識 Good companion, Positive Influence
Ku-mitra 惡知識 Evil companion, Bad Influence
This is precisely why people have advised seeking a teacher to provide proper teachings and guidance of this practice. Dazzle's words have now been shown to be spot-on: "As I stated before, it has caused distress in sensitive people who then panicked and 'felt' that they had actually absorbed the suffering of others."
This is not what the practice is meant to be, you are not taking on everyone's negative kamma and giving away all your merit. Kamma is a mindset. You can not literally take on someone else's kamma.
Tonglen is a personal practice to cultivate karuna, selflessness, metta etc. within one's own self... to cultivate another mindset. This is where the true benefits of any such practice, including others such as dedication of merit, really take place. As the Dalai Lama said: "Whether this meditation really helps others or not, it gives me peace of mind. Then I can be more effective, and the benefit is immense."
R: What does transmigration mean?
S9: Transmigration is like reincarnation; accept it is not limited to just human births. You could come back as an orangutan next time.
I think that karma comes awfully close to being like ‘original sin’ when misunderstood, in this way.
Here you are walking along one sunny afternoon, and trying to be a pretty good guy, all in all, and along comes a pay back (like being hit by a bus going 60 MPH), just because some guy you never knew, and never wanted to know, drove drunk 100 years ago…Call that fair? : ^ ) I DON’T THINK SO!
I think if your study how the church gains both power and wealth, you will come to understand why it is in their self-interest to keep everyone feeling guilty.
Q: “We were not created in Gods image. God is created in the image of man.”
R: I usually laugh at superstition, but I don't like to hope people die or think frightening things incase they happen, I guess I'm just silly.
S9: Perhaps, but I won’t be walking under any ladders. ‘First of all cover your ass’…kind of thing.
Friendly regards,
S9
F: The point of it is to bring an end to self-cherishing, desire and aversion by cultivating a mindset in which one is prepared to give up the things one desires and take on the things one dislikes.
S9: You are very right. But, I believe you left out one of the major ingredients…compassion.
This calls for extending beyond what is only good for us, or Spiritual Materialism.
Lets face it. Giving up in this way is actually getting...spelled backwards.
Respectfully,
S9
R: If it literally works, taking someone's bad karma, and giving them one's merit; just seems very tough. I have enough of my own bad karma to deal with.
S9: A little like hanging on a cross, don’t you think?
R: Then there is trying to save someone who is a bad influence. Generally, unless a person has accumulated a lot of merit; the bad influence wins out. There is a concept of good friend and bad friend that is found in most forms of Buddhism,
S9: I like to think that I have enough character, or integrity, not to be putty on the hands of circumstance/fate. But, maybe thats just ego. : ^ )
Peace,
S9
That is why I never go to church, oh poo, I've got to go there in a choir next week
I wouldn't walk under a ladder because it would be probobly be to close to the wall. In the summer I always shade under scaffolding... LOL
Anything that the mind can come up with is usually for more complex than at first sight, or until it is dumbed down as some might wish.
So transmigration is another wrinkle on the same old theme of rebirth. I also like the Astrological idea about ‘growing lives’ (the ones that kick you around so you can learn and grow), and the ‘resting lives’ (that give you a break) The astrologists claim to able to read this in your natal chart. I have had a growing life, and sure enough there it was printed out in black and white on my chart.
However, in this very life, I have noticed that Spiritual growth definitely pulses too, just like most of nature pulses, like our breath, or our sleep cycles, etc. Nature loves a duplicating theme.
By the way, are you familiar with Carlos Castaneda’s books about Shamanism? These are very fun books written as novels. (Very assessable with dull writing to get past.) I read all of his books, (a guilty pleasure for my more serious self). ; ^ )
They are about an anthropologist Carlos who studies under a Shaman, Don Juan, and they are full of magical events like shape shifting. A good read.
Friendly Regards,
S9
I have always been sensitive to the suffering of animals at the hands of humans. Somehow in my meditation, I tapped into the suffering of ALL animals, everywhere, all at once. I really felt it, and it completely overwhelmed me. I was utterly unprepared for anything like that, and it ripped me apart. I cried and cried, unable to find a place for all that sorrow and suffering. I recovered, in time, but the experience profoundly affected me. It took me years to come to peace with what I had uncovered.
Had I been familiar with the practice of tonglen, it might have provided me the proper outlet for my emotions. I was in no way ready for what I experienced. For tonglen to be beneficial, you must be able to take on suffering and return joy. This means completely letting go, abandoning the instinctive desire to repel painful experiences, dissolving the ego in an infinite pool of compassion. Taking on suffering without letting go of the "self" results in personalizing all that pain, making it impossible to transform it into peace. I think this is the danger in approaching tonglen without the necessary understanding. You wind up with an experience much like my own, which can really twist you up for a while.
~ AD
Some time ago, I was reading a book about the misuse of animals in the USA by the persons raising these poor creatures as food. I absolutely hated that book, (Hate/Hate/ Hate). But, I gritted my teeth and read on, because I wanted to be informed, perhaps to help in some way, and not to stick my head in the sand like an ostrich.
The pig is a very sensitive animal, and actually smarter than most of the brightest dogs, and very affectionate. Even so, big business crowds these poor little creatures together in such a way that, it makes their life becomes unbearable for them. They become very highly nervous, and high-strung to the extreme.
One day, a fellow new to caring for these little pigs, in such a physical climate, and not really understanding how very delicate they were, went out the door and slammed it. It seems that at that very moment, because of that thoughtless act, a good number of these little pigs fell over dead from the shock. Damn!
Being informed wasn’t going to be in the cards for me. That is when I slammed that book closed, and never was tempted to reopen it.
Still if you think about it, I didn’t really take on the pain of those animals, physically. What I took on was, what I thought it must be like to be one of those little pigs, and my own horror about how they are treated. If I actually had taken on all of their pain, I would be dead from the physical trauma.
One of the problems with living on this earth is; in order to preserve our own sanity, we must often and repeatedly turn our backs on the suffering of others, both people and animals. This is a very sad state of affairs.
Just watching the TV nightly is like jabbing ourselves in the eye with a needle. So, we harden our hearts out of necessity. But, this doesn’t make it right.
Sorry for that,
S9
I am really interested in working for Green Peace when I'm older. I like the idea of saving Mother Earth and animals and the Rainforest and supporting equal rights and preventing wars ekcetra.
Joe:)
I think it is easier to love and trust animals, especially young animals like kittens and puppies, because they aren’t as challenging to your well-being as people seem to be.
One big thing is that animals don’t seem to judge you, what is often called unconditional love. I think however it would be good for your own well-being to understand, or start to see that people are just little animals, too. This will take a while. This will be a difficult task. Mostly because, at first, we lack personal self-confidence and feel that we must defend.
It seems to be human nature to want peace and love in their world. But both of these things, peace and love, only happen in the world, one person at a time. In other words, we find peace and love within our selves, and only then can we share these gifts. If we dislike someone, already there is a snake in the garden (Eden).
I think when people disregard, our little animal friends, it is a symptom of emotional/mental illness in them. Such disregard cannot live side by side with self-love. There is definitely a snake in their garden. I don’t believe getting angry with them is going to help though. Worst, it introduces that sickness (hate and disregard) into our personal/subjective garden. So something is spreading. But, not what we wanted to spread.
Outcomes can tell us a lot.
I think is you “follow your heart,” into Green Peace, or whatever, it will bring you happiness.
Friendly Regards,
S9
I do see humans as animals more than most people (and most say 'we're not'). You know when you went to school and the teacher probobly informs you you're animals; they are right. (They mean it in a different way but still.)
I survived church LOL. We just had to sing carols and hyms that make me feel like a horrid little lier, but I have a gift of transforming the words slightly so they match my beliefs. Other people transformed the words although I don't think "Rudolph will you guide my wife tonight" and "away in a minge-er" were meant as wholesomely as my 'lyric-changing'
Joe:o
I used to work for Greenpeace so if you have any questions you can PM me. It's been my experience that people have many misconceptions about what Greenpeace is and what it does. The actions of other groups have become somewhat enmeshed over the years in the public's mind with the work Greenpeace has done and there are other confusions that persist as well. One such confusion is that of animal rights. Greenpeace is not an animal rights group and it gets involved only in cases of endangerment to species and habitat.
Anyway, you can PM if you want some insider info.
Don’t let it get you down that you have to “go along to get along.” That won’t really hurt your integrity, if they a small ways of simply ‘co-operating,’ (AKA cooperating) with others.
How many times do we have to smile, so as not to hurt someone’s feelings, when we just aren’t in the mood? “Bah Humbug”
How many times do we just not open our (big fat) mouth, and let someone know (in spades) that they are stupid.
Life isn’t lived like it is the “Whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.” Part of being civilized is “knowing when to keep a few things to your self.”
Q: “Even the Gods bow to necessity.”
So, don’t judge yourself too harshly, my friend.
Respectfully yours,
S9
There is very famous saying "Harsh words don't pierce your body", it is difficult to tolerate situation but we should learn it.
Regards,
sarah_9
Now it's days later and I have been suffering from the shame of saying things I should not have said. I'm having a difficult time forgiving myself. I know that I need to accept my mistake and learn from it but I'm currently stuck in a paralyzing shame...self-hatred even.
Sounds lke you already know what needs to be done, maybe you don't believe it though. Perhaps you just need the message brainwashed into you deeper. So I would recommend listening to some Ajahn Brahm talks, he really drives the point home.
Also know that change often comes about slowly. If you have a habit of saying things that are harmful to others and a habit of holding on to feelings of guilt, these habits may take time to break completely. Therefore you must be patient with yourself. How many times should you forgive yourself? Always forgive yourself ONE MORE TIME!
If there appears to be no improvement over time, then maybe it is time to see a counsellor.
As for the original subject of this thread, when something like that happens to me I try to remember that I am just experiencing the reflection of my own mind, the hatred, greed, and ignorance that continue to run rampant there even after years of practice. It is, after all, just phenomena. One should use such experiences as one's teacher. If it wasn't in my mind, then I wouldn't be experiencing it.
Palzang
Dealing with anger is sometimes more difficult than dealing with the cause of anger, because the cat is already out of the bag and raging.
It might be more effective to look behind your anger and deal with the fear that is the mother of anger. In order to do this we must watch ourselves vigilantly and catch thing in their beginning or at their smallest point. After all it is far easier to calm a kitten than it is to calm a raging tiger.
Distance yourself from these emotions by reminding your (ego) self that, “These are not me. I am not fear. I am not anger. I am not shame. These are emotional storms going on around me and I need not buy into them, or identify my (ego) self as them. .”
In this way you can also abort the need to justify them in any given moment.
Peace and love,
S9
When it comes to anger, a lot of things don't work and anger management courses is one of them. They don't consider the problem from its' roots. They usually build self-deprecating behavior by trying to control, self criticize and practice being angry (venting).
When you introduce parts of you that are value laden such as kindness, patience and compassion, and begin to recognize your strengths, the task is much easier.
Golden, when you lost your temper, you lost yourself. Go to that place where you feel angry, but also go to that place where you hold values. They will help you through it. As it is now, you have hijacked your values and encouraged them to lay a beating on you.
Train to use your cane.
There are a number of martial arts that use canes or cane like weapons for fighting.
I would also imagine that being hit with a cane actually hurts more than being punched or kicked.
I have had experience in a number of martial arts including Kendo (japanese sword fighting) Aikido (uses wooden swords) and Kenpo Karate (which at higher levels use cane like sticks).
On a couple of occasions I have been hit by a wooden sword, and I can tell you that one hit can hurt like hell!
I got hit once on the elbow during Kendo, and the bamboo sword actually chipped my bone and my arm bruised and swelled up for a few weeks. That is just one hit!
http://www.earthworks.com/martialart/canes/videos.htm
http://inosanto.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=79
Circumstances dictate to some extent experiences available.
If you are in the worlds roughests prison, surrounded by sadistic violent dishonest criminals that include murderers. serial killers, rapists, con men and pedo's, then the experiences available to you will be different than the ones available to you if you are living among Buddhist Monks who's aim in life is to free entire existence of their suffering.
Doesn't matter how good you are talking or meditating, if you are constantly having to fend off predators, you will have no time to meditate and will more likely suffer more.
So, my advice, if you are experiencing problems where you live, and the problems are greater than your resistence, then find your self somewhere better to live, as circumstances do have an effect on your well being.
Why do you think monks moved into a monastery?
And why do you think Shaolin Kung Fu was invented?
In this life, you must act as necessity dictates. But even if you are in a fight to the death, you do not need to get angry. You only need to fight with skill...and stop when your purpose is accomplished.
Anger will just steal your clear attention to details from you. It is better to be, at all times, on top of your game. This doesn’t require pretending…even pretending to be nice.
"This first, above all else...Be true to yourself."
Peace and love,
S9
Thanks for the advice.
I totally understand and I agree that to be free of anger in all circumstances is the ultimate goal. However I know that not everyone faces the same circumstances and that some face greater challenges than others.
It is also quiet a common phenomena when encountering a violent conflict to experience the fight and flight response. This is often a natural response for many, as it is the inbuilt response for humans and has helped humans survive conflicts over the millenia.
If people suffer from this response, do not worry, there are solutions to this problem.
Geoff Thompson, a highly experienced doorman / body guard / Mixed Martial Artist wrote a book about his experiences and solutions that address the problems.
His book is called Fear: Friend of Exceptional People.
For those who have phobias, who have panic attacks or are flusted when confronted with certain circumstances, I can recommend this book as it gives some solutions that may help.
Personally, I have no problem when faced with violent conflict in itself. I worry more about the consequences as I do not want to be arrested and end up in prison, and do not especially want to put anyone in prison or hospital either.
As this is not my nature.
Although I have done martial arts for several years, I am not a physically violent individual out side of the training hall and go out of my way to avoid violent conflict.
As for prison. I have seen the damage that is done by prison, to individuals and to those who are related and love them. In my opinion, it is not the ultimate cure for any criminal tendencies as prisons only remove the criminal from society, prisons do not remove the criminality.
Otherwise, thanks for your kind regards.
Peace and love to you too!
:-)
If they persist, then I leave. But you would be surprised at how quickly they divert their attention elsewhere if you pretend they don't exist.
What has that got to do with things?
I know this is a long way off from this original post but from someone else in England, I have to agree.
I live in a nice-ish city, or at least it was. Even so, I was walking home and someone was going to mug me (A known drug addict) when luckily some people came along and he ran off. I called the police and they told me they had just had a man mugged a few streets away and the mugger was of the same description. I had a lucky escape.
on anger. I guess if its aggressive violence I would do what ever it takes to stay safe as I can: run, hand over the money...whatever.
If its words I think Id try to ask questions and feed back what has been said.
Like: So you think I am a fool. What have I done to make you think that?
Or: you sound really angry with me. Why is that?
Of course easier said than done if someone wants to get right inside your head. Its hard to keep them out, but not impossible.
- Dosa / Dvesha 瞋: Hatred, anger, loathing -- from a root word that means a response to an annoying sound. This is the root, sometimes given as patigha or arati
- Issa / Irsya: Envy, jealousy, covetousness
- Macchariya / Matsarya: Stinginess, miserliness, not sharing.
- Kukkucca: Anxiety, worry, restlessness, fretting, agitation.
There are also a bunch of near synonyms of dosa, that appear to represent nuances of anger:That is purely academic. One thing, I found it curious that envy and stinginess would be grouped here, with aversive states. I would relate them more to the greed - attraction group. Also, I would tend to think of anxiety more in connection with delusion. At any rate, the greedy mental states are sort of the near opposites of the aversive. The general root of the greedy afflictions is given as any of three words; each of which also has a specific nuance.
- Lobha: Cupidity, greed, avarice. A cognate of the word love, it usually has the specific nuance of avarice; the greedy desire to acquire and keep wealth, property, and so on.
- Raga: Attachment, possessiveness, passion, in the sense of ardent affection for things we already have or possess.
- Kama: The lusty desire for pleasing sensual contact that we do not presently have. Not just erotic lust, btw. It could also be for good food, pleasant surroundings, or other creature comforts.
There are two other related afflictions:- Mana-Mada: Pride, arrogance, vanity, conceit
- Ditthi, drishti: Opinionated views, one sided perspective
These two groups of afflicted mental states; the aversive and attractive, kind of work together. We tend to see things in terms of what we like and dislike. People will usually think their own hatred and anger is justified, because it is directed against things, people, events, ideas, groups, and so on that appear to threaten whatever it is they cherish; what they think is worth fighting for. The advanced solution is to cultivate what is called viraga. No, not viagra. Vi- means dis-; viraga means detachment, non-attachment, disinterest, dispassion, or objectivity.- Metta, maitri: Kindness, amity, good will, friendliness.
- Karuna: Compassion, empathy for the suffering of others.
- Mudita: Appreciative or mutual joy, being happy for and proud of other's successes. The opposite of envy.
- Upekha, upeksha: Equipoise, equanimity. Keeping a level head in the face of the 'eight winds' {praise or blame, joy or suffering, fame or disgrace, gain or loss}.
- Khanti / Kshanti: Forbearance, tolerance, patience. Forgiving patience for things, people, actions, that do not deserve it.
There are prayers, chants, and hymns to awaken these states. We can also arouse them by thinking of a situation in which we have felt them. For example, a parent naturally feels mudita joy if their child does well, and feels karuna compassion if their child suffers. Or they will easily forgive and tolerate their child's shortcomings. The idea is to expand these kindly emotions to all people; to all beings, not just those we favor.There are a couple of guided meditative visualizations to do this. With one, we direct the desired wholesome mental state toward 4 kinds of people; a respected person, a loved one, a neutral person, and a hostile person. With the other, we suffuse 'waves' or 'vibes' of the healing emotion in the 'Ten Directions.'
Namaste Nickidoodle
In Wicca it's different because of the Threefold Law (which is different to karma). If you read the whole of the Wiccan Rede (not the summarised version of "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"), you will see that, depending on what version you read (there are several out there by now), there is a "loophole" around it.
The first Wiccan Rede was recorded in writing in 1934 by a Traditional British Witch. It has since undergone countless revisions as different traditions/paths of Wicca have sprung up.
But as I said before, the Wiccan Rede still has its loophole (an it harm none, do what thou wilt, except when someone does you harm first), whereas Karma has nowhere to run to baby
In metta,
Raven
PS - I was a Gardnerian Wiccan priestess for almost 15 years and am happy to PM you some sources if it's something of personal interest to you
I have to correct a few things here. Wicca is not atheistic. If you view the God and Goddess as archetypes that is your choice (as with some other Pagans who still consider themselves Pagan and not atheist). It was a view popularised by Carl Jung.
Polytheism is what you would be if you considered ALL Goddesses and Gods to be individual deities, not facets of the God or Goddess.
Dualistic is the simplified definition of most Wiccans. But experience has taught me that this is only a very small number of Wiccans. Most have their set beliefs in particular God and Goddess, or they are monolatorous (see definition in next paragraph).
Monotheistic is simply incorrect because the God and Goddess are always considered two parts. Monotheism claims only one God in one form which is not a Wiccan or Pagan definition. I think in this you are mistaking monotheism for monolatory - where all Gods and Goddesses are part of the One Divine/Creator/Spirit.
I think exploring Wicca is always an option for people, but I would encourage you to find reliable sources both on and off the net. I am happy to give you some suggestions if you're interested.
In metta,
Raven
Life ‘IS’ meditation, and done correctly meditation ‘IS’ life.
What I mean by this is that, meditation can get up off the cushion, can open its eyes, and can travel with you constantly. But remembering to meditate is a skill that must be learned through vigorous intention, attention, and never giving up.
Brother Lawrence said pretty much the same thing when he said, “Pray constantly.”
The way that I accomplish this way of living to come alive is to make everything I do, every chore here on my farm into a miniature meditation, is by mindfulness of my breath in conjunction with what I am presently doing within any given moment. So I have a ‘picking the string beans/breath meditation,’ a ‘picking the tomatoes/breath meditation,’ a ‘peeling the apples/breath meditation,’ a ‘brushing my teeth/breath meditation,’ a ‘taking a little walk/breath meditation,’ I think you can see my point here. Breath doesn't make me only 1/2 present, because I breathe into my doing.
Anything, you do daily, can become a meditation simply by watching your breath closely and superimposing the movement of breath right on top of any old thing, at all. With time this becomes easier and more constant. Instead of a chore or just one more thing to do, it turns into a love affair. Grin!
I had a friend who for years wore an elastic band on his wrist to remind himself to watch his breath, whenever he noticed it there. Another friend, who was a constant clock-watcher, used every time he peeked at a clock or his watch as a reminder. Really anything like that can help you until a strong habit starts to form.
In this way, everything in your life is there to help you, to teach you, and not seen as some kind of an obstruction to meditation…even ‘the terrible routine violence of jail meditation’ can remind you of calming breath. Perhaps even ‘fighting for your life meditation’ can work to strengthen your resolve to be free. Smile!
Peace and love,
S9/Leslie
I am winging it here, as to ‘the why’ of a scholarly grouping of anger and greed under the same heading, but perhaps it may be because, they (anger and greed) are both birthed by the same mother, (aka fear).
Greed being a lack of trust, or the fear that you won’t have enough in order to be fully satisfied or happy...fearing a lack or emptiness at some level.
Anger, on the other hand, being the fear that what you have, either your self definition, your wealth, or even your bodily well being, can be ripped away from you by circumstance or another.
So we have greed grabbing and anger pushing away (a kind of yin/yang) in order to acquire safety.
Do you think that that has anything to do with it?
Peace and love,
S9/Leslie
Thank you for the advice.
I do have a fair knowledge of zen / Chan.
I also like the idea of using martial arts as the vehicle for meditation and to develop will power (like those almost invincible Shaolin monks).
Thanks for your time and effort.
Peace and Love
DeVoid
Sorry to return to this comment. Just find it a bit of a bizarre comment to post. Completely off topic.
Incidentally, I also think that the figures are way out.
As from my recollection from cases that have been in local and national papers, their seems to be quiet a few homosexual cases as well as some cases where there are woman involved too.
Not that I am particularly interested in such things, as I find the subject quiet disturbing and saddening.
I believe that such things are due to a terrible sickness that people suffer from, a sickness that is beyond my comprehension and which I am fortunate enough not to suffer from.
May these people who suffer from this sickness be well and may they stop harming the innocent.
Peace.
Thank you, I'll keep it in mind. All beliefs have their shortcomings, but most people are at least a little eclectic, as I've found with some Wiccans
I don't think sexuality has anything to do with the ability for paedophilia. But the percentage of straight and gay people, only 0.001 % of paedos being gay is very unlikely.