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Yes, indeed, you have made your point. But, perhaps it is irresponsible, on your part, to run around frightening people, esp. mentally ill people, who are so easily frightened.
There have always been, and probably will always be, people who run around yelling, “The sky is falling.”
Enough said.
S9
i dont think that is what Dazzle is doing at all.
Tonglen is a practice that should be undertaken with the guidance of an authorized teacher.
Although everyone of course has a right to his or her opinion, truth isn’t a democracy, or rather isn’t decided by voting. So that everyone should look at this, and decide for them selves.
Buddha cautioned us to look for our selves. We should not even take his word for it. The Buddha did not say that we should always vote on it. ; ^ )
I agree (very strongly) everyone is entitled to an opinion and of course truth is truth;) Democracy is good because the most people are happy:) but the truth can't be voted on.
I agree with S9 *thumbs up*:D
A person of integrity must always be willing to stand up for what s/he feels is right. Only in being willing to do this, are we allowed to find our own truth. Truth is always intimate in this way.
Thank them for the feedback, and invite their harshest criticism.
Seems ineffective for people with low sense of worth
Poor results,
Maybe just causing more trouble
When inviter can't cope with criticism
Nothing gained
Not necessarily talking about OP
Just not good cover-all ideology
Seeing as we're in Buddhism for beginners.
I must admit that I have anger problems, not as bad as they used to be though.
I used to be bullied in school for a short period of time. One day I just snapped! And, well, it didn't end good for him. I feel bad about what I did and I DON'T think violence is the answer. But looking on the bright side, he never bullied me again.
You probably learned more by doing something that made you feel bad about your self, than you could have learned from 100 years believing/pretending that you were not capable of such action. Everything has its “yes,” and its “no.”
Also:
You have no idea, if what the other guy learned from this episode was also good for him.
We can only do what we feel that we must in any one moment, and then let it go.
If we become attached to feeling bad, in order to prove to our self that we are good, than we are actually wasting our time, and suffering needlessly.
S9
I believe it true that you hurt everyone in your life (even dieing emotionaly hurts people), however; I'm curious- did you mean the warrior meant he did not think it right to hurt people or did he mean you actualy physicaly can't hurt people?
Were you talking to me when you meant 'glad to see you back'?
Joe
I haven’t noticed you about lately, and so I was glad to see you. But, maybe I haven’t been looking in the right places. ; ^ )
In the Bhagavad Gita, I believe they see this whole world like it is a dream, or like it is God’s playing. In that case as they say, to quote: “You only dream that you are the doer.”
I don’t believe they see us as being born and dying in any material way, but rather everything simply changing form.
In my personal metaphysical outlook, also, I do not see the my material form (AKA my body/brain) as who I actually am.
Now obviously, if in the dream, Arguna were to stick a sword into someone, that someone would say,"Ouch,, that hurt." But they are trying to say that in the big picture, or thinking on multiple levels, this would be a dream hurt. This story is a metaphor. It is trying to say that our 'Essencial Self' or 'our Buddha Nature' is not what we dream it to be.
I personally do not think that this gives me the right, within the dream itself, to run around sticking a sword in people. But, I do, on the other hand, think that if I did it within this dream, it would be a dream error, imagination.
In Buddhism, it is all about knowing who you are not, so that you may know who you are. You are not this dream.
But, again this isn’t permission to be hurtful. (Perhaps, someone could say this much better than I am, sorry.) Yet at the same time, making your dream self into a saint isn’t necessarily correct either, esp. if you are attached to the whole idea of how good you are. An attachment is an attachment, some aren't good attachments.
Getting caught up in judging right and wrong would easily keep you attached to your own ego-self.
Funny thing though, it seems to naturally fall out that when you are less attached to your ego-self, you are also less apt to cause willful harm. Maybe Plato was right about Goodness being still higher than the good/bad dualism even in this universeal dream.
LOL
I was going to say I don't remember going
And sorry but no; I don't really understand... LOL
I read it through again and I sort of understand now Thanks S9
Oh, and I'd like to ask you a question, but to be able to ask the question I need to ask another question; Are you a theist, or atleast Agnostic? If yes then you'll probobly be able to answer my question.
Thanks S9
Joe:)
What can you do, when someones up in your face saying really nasty things, pushing you and not stopping or laughing at you etc. Do you just stand there and take it?
If you can prevent yourself from coming to harm, dont develop a mind of anger toward them this is just as bad and childish as they are being...use every situation as an oppertunity to extend control over your mind.:)
I am not a theist, an atheist or an agnostic, or any ‘ism for that matter. But, ask your question anyway, and I will do my best to answer you, as I have studied all of these disciplines at one time or another.
I use the word 'God' very loosely, more like you might use Buddha Nature, or Original Face, or Ultimate, or Essence, or Self (Capital S for Ultimate Self), or even Spirit, or Allah or the Christ. This is because after studying many/many religions, I have no problem with these words at a more 'mystical level' meaning basically the same thing.
C: If you can prevent yourself from coming to harm, don’t develop a mind of anger toward them this is just as bad and childish as they are being...use every situation as an opportunity to extend control over your mind.
S9: That is good advice. In this way, you would see opportunity, and a chance to say thank you to the fellow testing you, and the situation itself with all of your own (usually hidden) weaknesses brought into the light.
Gratitude is certainly a click above anger. You not only get to learn control, but rightly seen you learn about their suffering and how to have compassion for their suffering.
Like Christmas in July. ; ^ )
Someone once asked a master, “Master what is heaven?”
C: If you can prevent yourself from coming to harm, don’t develop a mind of anger toward them this is just as bad and childish as they are being...use every situation as an opportunity to extend control over your mind.
S9: That is good advice. In this way, you would see opportunity, and a chance to say thank you to the fellow testing you, and the situation itself with all of your own (usually hidden) weaknesses brought into the light.
Gratitude is certainly a click above anger. You not only get to learn control, but rightly seen you learn about their suffering and how to have compassion for their suffering.
Like Christmas in July. ; ^ )
Someone once asked a master, “Master what is heaven?”
In this way, you would see opportunity, and a chance to say thank you to the fellow testing you, and the situation itself with all of your own (usually hidden) weaknesses brought into the light.
When we pity someone, in a way we are seeing that person as not being us. We are separating our self from the pain, their pain, and saying "not mine." This is a buffer.
Although we may not mean it to be so, there is in this some condescension on our part, always, when we separate from another in order to protect our selves. We have turned our back in this way. This is very subtle. But, any separation at/all is a lack of love.
Compassion is different in this way, or so I have heard the Masters explain it. Compassion is only truly felt when we realize that the other person’s pain is actually our own pain, as Essentially we are One. This Oneness is Love.
I believe in a God and a Goddess- the Wiccan ones- by the way, any way, my question is; if their is indeed a god or gods (I still like to keep an open mind) what do you think, if they were people would a god or goddess do if violently confronted,
Thanks,
Joe:)
L: I believe in a God and a Goddess- the Wiccan ones- by the way.
S9: Do you mean this literally like a Big Guy/Gal in the Sky (kind of) with their own personalities, and whimsical behaviors, or do you rather mean more like metaphorically, as they being representative of nature, who I call affectionately ‘Mother?’
L: “What do you think, if they were people would a god or goddess do if violently confronted?”
S9: I think that they would allow us to learn and correct ourselves, by allow our own foolishness to come back at us in equal measure, something like Global Warming. Learn or die!
Something less drastic/violent than destroying our whole planet, needlessly, something like anger, would just make us feel bad, cause us to have a lousy day, or even finally to get sick if we kept it up and up. In other words, our punishment/reward would be built right in, or would cause us to be Self-correcting.
Anger is an extreme reaction of the ego to circumstances it finds unacceptable. When we get angry, we have failed to accept the situation as it is, falsely identifying with our ego and attaching judgments to what is happening. We allow ourselves to become our circumstances, instead of simply watching them unfold, and we react in anger. Reacting in anger is like strapping dynamite to your body and running at your opponent.
Anger and violence are not necessary partners. I often hear people defend anger when the issue of self-defense comes up, as if the only way to engage in violence is with anger. Quite to the contrary, the only time violence is a wise response is in the absence of anger.
I generally view people as wild animals. I love animals, all different kinds. I respect their nature and accept them as they are. I recognize their suffering and feel deep compassion for them. This is not to say I go around hugging grizzly bears, kissing porcupines or feeding sharks. I regard them with caution and watch my step. If a wild dog bites me when threatened, I don't hate the dog or react in anger. The dog is just being a dog.
People are the same. Most act in accordance with their nature, driven by their craving and their suffering. Sometimes they behave in ways that defy our expectations or desires. Sometimes they can even be dangerous. These are not reasons to become angry. I just accept them as they are, and exercise appropriate caution.
If I am forced to defend myself, I do so. I do not act in anger, but with compassion for both myself and my attacker. I recognize that my aggressor surely suffers more than I, so I try to inflict the least possible amount of harm.
There is a martial arts motto known as the Shaolin Creed:
Avoid rather than check.
Check rather than hurt.
Hurt rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill.
For all life is precious,
nor can any be replaced.
In my adult life, I have never had to defend myself physically, not because I have never been in a potentially dangerous situation, but because I have successfully avoided the necessity to resort to violence. Martial arts skills take years of dedicated practice to develop, but the art of avoidance can be learned by anybody. The teachings of Buddhism are fantastic in this regard (there is a reason elements of Buddhism are deeply ingrained in most Eastern martial arts).
The first most important element of self-defense is awareness. So it is with life.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." ~ Sun Tzu (the Art of War)
Violence does not happen in a vacuum, it always looks for opportunity.
No matter how angry someone may get, or how much they may want to hurt something/someone, you will not see anyone jumping into a tiger’s cage (real soon) in order to start a fight to the death with the biggest/bad-est tiger in there. I don’t care how bad of a day they may have had.
Nature knows this. Watch an animal that is frightened, instinctively puff up his fur coat in order to look bigger, and bare it’s teeth in order to look fiercer, and posture in such a way as to say, “This isn’t going to be easy sucker.”
So in a way, you avoid other people anger at you, too, by showing that you are not an easy mark.
Surprisingly, when people treat you better, you will find fewer reasons during your day to get angry.
This is a form of avoidance, which our good friend AD is pointing out.
Look deeply, as wisdom resides just below the surface of life,
S9
I agree (very strongly) everyone is entitled to an opinion and of course truth is truth;) Democracy is good because the most people are happy:) but the truth can't be voted on.
I agree with S9 *thumbs up*:D
Joe, Dazzle and others were cautioning against a practise that can be dangerous without a teacher (learning from someone who knows the practice properly and can help you along the way).
MANY people misunderstand this practice (and others) because they feel they are literally taking in other people's suffering and don't know what to do next. Obviously, this isn't a good practice to suggest to just anyone, and obviously, it should be encourage that it be done under the supervision of a teacher and taught properly.
Insulin is a good thing, for those who need and and are taught how to use it. In fact, it saves lives. But used improperly, it can cause a lot of harm. You wouldn't suggest someone take medications and even give them medications, and tell them they don't need to talk to their doctor first, would you?
S9 is right, anything can be misused. That's why people were cautioning against this, because it's easily and inadvertantly misused in a way which causes suffering to the person who chose to do it. Dazzle and others were being RESPONSIBLE.
Of course no one here can stop anyone from doing it, but it was a warning out of concern for others' best interests. This has nothing to do with "democracy" or "the truth being voted on."
L: I believe in a God and a Goddess- the Wiccan ones- by the way.
S9: Do you mean this literally like a Big Guy/Gal in the Sky (kind of) with their own personalities, and whimsical behaviors, or do you rather mean more like metaphorically, as they being representative of nature, who I call affectionately ‘Mother?’
L: “What do you think, if they were people would a god or goddess do if violently confronted?”
S9: I think that they would allow us to learn and correct ourselves, by allow our own foolishness to come back at us in equal measure, something like Global Warming. Learn or die!
Something less drastic/violent than destroying our whole planet, needlessly, something like anger, would just make us feel bad, cause us to have a lousy day, or even finally to get sick if we kept it up and up. In other words, our punishment/reward would be built right in, or would cause us to be Self-correcting.
What do you think, my good friend?
Warm Regards,
S9
The Wiccan God and Goddess are a bit confusing...
Let me explain; they are both Atheistic, Polytheistic, Duotheistic, and Monotheistic...
Atheist: The God and Goddess are, to some, such as I, more metaphorical figures; yes.
Monotheistic: The God and Goddess are entwined together, as, in a way, one. (Hence the calling of your partner 'your other half').
Duotheistic: God and Goddess.
Polytheist: Usualy with in a number of Gods and Goddesses one or maybe a couple or even a few are considered more powerful or more worshipped than the others. In Wiccan mostly the Goddess is most worshipped. Some sects don't even worship the God!
The God is considered the sun and the Goddess the moon. I find this interesting because with out the sun and moon, life, if any, would be very different. I see the God as the one who sparked life and the Goddess as the mother, slowly changing the world as a baby is changed in the mother's womb, and possibly life is set for something more different...:)
On another note I doubt reincarnation and karma if it is not untrue would act entirely of it's kind. My beliefs are really like no others, so I just have to participate in a couple of religions and read about them all to allow my beliefs to blossom and ripen...
I can understand your being drawn to the Wiccan, there is a big part of me that is rather Pagan. I always especially liked the idea of the nature spirits; they being sort of like plant souls.
I think a lot of these feelings come out of our feelings of oneness with nature, (the Tao) Her plants, and Her animals, are great gifts to our human lives. I personally cannot imagine a sterile world without them. That to me would be more hellish than the so-called fires of hell.
In the ancient Greek tales, the gods and the goddesses are often actually representative of the different parts of the human psyche. The ancient Greeks were actually very astute in this area of understanding.
May of their tales are archetypal.
If you are a poet, this would be a good area of learning for you to look into.
L: My beliefs are really like no others.
S9: This is a good thing, because it shows that you are doing your own thinking. This takes courage.
I think a lot of these feelings come out of our feelings of oneness with nature, (the Tao) Her plants, and Her animals, are great gifts to our human lives. I personally cannot imagine a sterile world without them. That to me would be more hellish than the so-called fires of hell.
No need to worry about that. We can't exist outside of nature. We are nature. The separation between man and nature is an illusion, a trick of perception, an ego-centric delusion. It's funny how we look out from behind our eyes and see nature as if it's "out there," while we're "in here." When we gaze outward at the sublime beauty before us, how is it we don't recognize ourselves gazing back?
What I absolutely hate- sorry but I do hate them, whether I'm being hostile or not-more than anything else in the world, are people LOL. So many people would destroy A tiger for preying on a human, and why did the tiger prey on the human? People shot the tiger's family, hunted his or her prey for sport when there is no need and chopped down his or her home. What on Earth gave us the right to destroy other species just because we can't control our own? Humans- Civilised!- I always laugh when people say that. When you see what so many people think, or don't think, about the world.
Of course I love many people to, people who try to get things changed for the better. (when I get a job I wish to have some sort of thing where you travel around the world and try to make a difference). We are nature. The Christian Heaven would be Hell to me. I like this world with it's nature and I always hate the world 'eternity'.
I'm not really a poet, I just like writing poetry... Really I'd also like to be an author, I'm witing a book at the minute called Life & Stuff. I try to make it funny where possible but it has a lot of serious hidden messages. It's very easy to mistake for being a bit crude and very offensive but by the end people would reaslise I'm writing about an imperfectly parallel world that's going to be changed, slowly, for the better... Really it's mostly a fantasy but in the real world at the same time,
Joe
A: We can't exist outside of nature. We are nature.
S9: Our body certainly cannot exist outside of nature. But, we can manage to rape nature to such an extent that we can turn green fields into desserts. (Look at the problems in Africa.)
When I used to skin dive some years back, going on 30 years now, I saw many, many star fish were building up, where there didn't used to be many, a symptom of pollution in our beautiful oceans, and the fish numbers had greatly diminished in a very short time.
And:
This was in the wilderness of Northern Maine.
I heard just the other night that there are some beautiful islands, with whole towns of people, and innocent animals living on them, that are now in danger of being completely submerged into the ocean, simply because the sea water is rising from the glaciers melting. Don’t get me started. ; ^ )
A: The separation between man and nature is an illusion, a trick of perception, an ego-centric delusion.
S9: No doubt this is the case. I read somewhere that a sign that a species is going to go extinct is, that they foul their own nest.
However, you are preaching to the choir, as I am somewhat of a Nature Mystic (Very much in love with Thoreau), and also a big part of my metaphysic is Taoism. I am a back to the earth hippy, as well, living on a farm and growing much of my own food. Da/da Da/da : ^ )
AD: It's funny how we look out from behind our eyes and see nature as if it's "out there," while we're "in here."
S9: That does seem to be an inheritance, from the Christian way of see this world as the enemy to their soul. But, like I told my friend Love, I am more of a Pagan in that regard.
When I travel to the city, once a year to hit the used book stores, it actually makes me kind of ill (spiritually and aesthetically) with its ugliness, crowding, dead buildings, and signs. (The overly sensitive empath in me.)
AD: When we gaze outward at the sublime beauty before us, how is it we don't recognize ourselves gazing back?
S9: Actually, I do. Did I tell you my grasshopper story?
People fight with people, like cats fight with cats, don’t you think.
My cat forgives me most anything. But, he won’t allow another darn cat in his yard without scratching some fur of its backside. (Both species, cats and us, are territorial.) We even fight over ideas, very often. (Mental territory)
I have a sister who isn’t very happy with me, because, “I won’t let her save my soul.” (Paradigm territory)
; ^ )
This is probably a little like you wanting to save the earth, and her animals, and somebody else, an oil company executive perhaps, only caring about the bottom line (economically). Where will we find the peace, in such divergence? No wonder everyone is angry!
Living on this planet is a constant battle over territory; look at how we treat the bugs and mice that wander into our homes just trying to keep warm, and to find food. But, can we stop evicting them? Of course, not!
Although, I do admit to catching hornets and ladybugs in a empty peanut butter jar, and releasing them out my door. However, my friends DO laugh at me.
We have a love/hate thing going with other people, no doubt. Both of these extremes play across our mental landscape almost like moods. One wrong word, and its to the death, or often never forgiven.
Have you read a book called, “The Lord of the Flies?” It is excellent. It is about a bunch of children left to their own devices on an island, and how they create their own (as you say LOL) civilization. This book is very revealing of the human condition.
Go in peace my friend. You ARE your own world.
I write poetic prose, when the spirit moves me, and haiku.
I never kill 'vermin' (who are people to say that?) just put them in my garden or leave them be. I see it as we build our houses on their communities so they have a right to live in my garden with out fear of extermination and share my crumbs. When I have my own family I'd like to grow my own food, and keep chickens, stuff like that. I don't like busy cities, they're just nature's graveyards. I'd live in Mattlock. Have you ever been? It's in Deryshire just outside the Peak District National Park, a beautiful place...:)
Our body certainly cannot exist outside of nature. But, we can manage to rape nature to such an extent that we can turn green fields into desserts. (Look at the problems in Africa.)
To use your own cliche, you are preaching to the choir. But...read on.
However, you are preaching to the choir, as I am somewhat of a Nature Mystic (Very much in love with Thoreau), and also a big part of my metaphysic is Taoism. I am a back to the earth hippy, as well, living on a farm and growing much of my own food. Da/da Da/da : ^ )
"I saw deep in the eyes of the animals the human soul look out upon me. I saw where it was born deep down under feathers and fur, or condemned for a while to roam four-footed among the brambles,I caught the clinging mute glance of the prisoner and swore that I would be faithful." ~ Henry David Thoreau
I am also connected with mysticism and taoism, though to a much lesser extent than I once was. I envy you, growing your own food. I have always been somewhat of a city kid, even growing up in the Midwest. I adore my time removed from the trappings of mankind, but I'd not survive long apart from the urban jungle. At least, not yet.
When I travel to the city, once a year to hit the used book stores, it actually makes me kind of ill (spiritually and aesthetically) with its ugliness, crowding, dead buildings, and signs. (The overly sensitive empath in me.)
Where you see ugliness and death, I see poetry.
Without question, humankind does much to damage both its environment and its own well-being. But can we really say our constructions are any less natural than, say, a beaver dam? We are natural beings; everything we build comes from nature, however we may alter its form and composition. In our ignorance, we do much to cause terrible harm and suffering upon our planet, our co-inhabitants, and ourselves. Yet to view our activities as apart and separate from nature is inaccurate. Who can claim to understand the complex workings of nature?
This is not to say we are "okay" as we are. The human species must evolve and come to understand its impact upon its environment. The cruel atrocities committed daily against our non-human counterparts make me ache with sorrow, not only for the terrible suffering of the creatures, but for the blanket of delusion and ignorance covering the people who carry them out. I have seen humans commit unimaginable acts of thoughtless cruelty. There is no greater sickness than this, yet we seek no cure.
S9: Actually, I do. Did I tell you my grasshopper story?
Who's to say an animal has a human soul? I always think of people having the spirit of a certain animal, each to their own. (Have you ever seen the Golden Compass?).
Actually beavers are only bad for the environment if they are introduced to an alien environment, by humans.
I think bullying someone is a mental illness which is deep rooted in someone's past experience as a child mostly. There is a girl in my workplace who has been brought up with two brothers and I think she was bullied as a child and now as an adult she really over-reacts if something happens to her. If you make a little joke she usually gets back to you in a nasty way, bullying you in front of others as if she doesn't want to look weak or bullied. I think bullies have the need to feel strong because they have been weak and victims once in their lives
If I face a bully in any case the best thing I would do is ignore them and leave the situation as soon as possible. Yes, they might see me as a coward and maybe I AM a coward but I don't have the time and energy to deal with BS. The more you fight them they stronger they get
What can you do, when someones up in your face saying really nasty things, pushing you and not stopping or laughing at you etc. Do you just stand there and take it?
Hi, S9 and I had some discussions. I have been working with compassion meditation {Metta-Karuna} for 7 years or so. I have a unique take; and have gotten some amazing results. I think I am going to start a thread in the meditation forum entitled Metta Bhavana. I started one on the Five Hindrances; of which enmity is one.
There are several stories about the Buddha and his disciples dealing with rage, emlity, and so on directed at them. In one, the Buddha was attacked by a drunken elephant. The Buddha calmed the creature by generating what I call mettawaves. I think some doctor uses the term mettawaves; but I coined it on my own.:rolleyes:
Civil disobedience has been well established as a means to deal with aggressiveness. Even countries have bullied others but have relented in the face of courage and determination. It did not require fighting fire with fire. Just a willingness to stand up for what is right.
In respect to Tonglen practices, well known practitioners such as Pema Chodron or Sharon Salzberg advise people to practice it and they do not approach it with the reservations mentioned here. They don't suggest one must practice it under the direct supervision of a teacher at all. They teach the practices themselves.
I would recommend studying their thoughts. Particularly Pema Chodron's "The Places That Scare You - A Guide To Fearlessness in Difficult Times". "Lovingkindness - The Revolutionary Art of Happiness" by Sharon Salzberg is also well worth taking a look.
I believe S9 is trying to encourage people to live the kind of life that is free from the fruits of fear. It does not mean people need to take their lives into their hands by being foolhardy. It just means accepting the fear, and learning to distinguish how much of it works to protect you, and how much of it oppresses you.
From what little I know about Toglen, it seems like a tough {in a positive sense} way to cultivate karuna - compassion. I try to cultivate metta, karuna, muditta, and equanimity once a week, if not more often. I was self taught initially; then pleased to find the Buddha had already invented that wheel. For Karuna Bhavana;my method is to visualize how I would feel if one of our grandchildren fell and got hurt or got in trouble. That emotion, I think is compassion. I tied visualizing someone harming them. That aroused a much different emotion; one that does not feel good.
I then try to do this, visualizing suffering and arousing the same compassion, with the 5 kinds of people; self, friend, enemy, meh person, and all beings in general. This appears to be a standard approach. There is another method I use as well. On other methods; I know people that virtually hate everyone and have no empathy. What I describe likely would not work for them.
BTW. an aside; Someone mentioned pity. If sadism & schadenfreude; deriving pleasure from others' suffering, are far opposites of karuna, I suspect pity is the near opposite.
I live in the USA, and have only travels out as far as Canada, and Mexico. Canada was great. Tijuana was a sewer.
My cat is a real mouser. He gets 3-4 mice/moles a week (non-stop) (He is a real child of Diana, the Huntress). This supplements his diet and gives him a chance to be playful, (an innocent killer.)
In my readings of animal medicine, they say that fresh meat such as this is necessary to his immune system. But, even if it weren’t for this, I believe that it would break his heart if I tried to stop him from actualizing in this way.
I think that we must be careful to be realistic, when it comes to nature, and not to put Walt Disney in charge of what we understand of nature.
This being said, I sometimes apologize to a tomato when I pick it, and take its life. I do not want to loose tract of the fact that I am taking a life out of necessity, or to cause needless harm, or become wasteful without gratitude.
I like the fact that some people are studying in order to make cities more livable. Introducing moving water into our environment is supposed to be good for both our human nerves/happiness and our good health. Small improvements such as these may be the wave of the future. Especially as this planet becomes more and more crowded. Robert Audrey wrote a book about how over crowding caused violent behavior in primates. (Book: Territorial Imperative)
Did you know that the color green is supposed to be very healing? Maybe that has something to do with plants contributing to our health, in just one more way.
L: Have you ever seen the Golden Compass?
S9: No, tell me about it, please? : ^ )
L: I used to be bullied and then I was a bully, but on the bright side I know what fuels people.
Q: AD:
"I saw deep in the eyes of the animals the human soul look out upon me. I saw where it was born deep down under feathers and fur, or condemned for a while to roam four-footed among the brambles, I caught the clinging mute glance of the prisoner and swore that I would be faithful." ~ Henry David Thoreau
S9: I bought this quote forward, because of its coincidental closeness to my own experience with the grasshopper.
One day, while in my back yard, I noticed a grasshopper circling around a post trying to avoid my noticing it. But alas, I just kept moving with it, a little dance we did, until it finally gave up, and looked me right in the eye.
What I saw was amazing. It was the same 'I Am' looking out of this grasshopper that I found within me, and call my own most essential 'I Am.' I was actually seeing myself looking back at me from within this grasshopper. Silly as this may seem to another, this was a true Spiritual insight for me. One I cannot deny.
We see this same thing in other people, and other animals, all of the time, but often because of preconceptions about our own superiority, we simply miss this. What a loss.
AD: I am also connected with mysticism and Taoism.
S9: I’m not surprised. I feel these in you. : ^ )
AD: I envy you, growing your own food.
S9: You would be surprised at just how much more taste there is in home grown foods. They have bred taste right out of our foods in the super markets, when they were going for shelf life. Don’t know why it worked out this way, but it is certainly seems to be the case.
After you start eating home grown tomatoes, the store tomatoes are a real let down, almost not worth the effort to eat them. Corn is amazing. So, if you can stick a few tomato plants in your yard, or pot some up on your porch, you would be very happily surprised both in flavor, and abundance, not to mention health benefits. (Most people don't think about the life force in fresh foods.)
AD: Where you see ugliness and death, (in the city) I see poetry.
S9: Yes, it is probably some lack in me, to miss this. It may be a thing of ratio between plants and buildings/cars/whatever.
Obviously, I don’t live in a tree. And, I enjoy books, and computers, etc. I am also a great lover of the arts. I even enjoy architecture. I don’t always know all the “whys” of these things.
Someone once said that the creations of man are dead things. (I guess they didn’t count gardens in that.) ; ^ ) And like you say, we are a part of nature, and what we do is natural to us.
But, so is cancer natural. (No, I am not saying man is a cancer. But, cancer doesn’t play nicely with its host the body, and we don’t play nicely with our host, Mother Earth. So, there are some similarities.) Let’s hope we have more capacity to reform our ways than cancer does.
What I saw was amazing. It was the same 'I Am' looking out of this grasshopper that I found within me, and call my own most essential 'I Am.' I was actually seeing myself looking back at me from within this grasshopper. Silly as this may seem to another, this was a true Spiritual insight for me. One I cannot deny.
That just made me smile all over.
After you start eating home grown tomatoes, the store tomatoes are a real let down, almost not worth the effort to eat them. Corn is amazing. So, if you can stick a few tomato plants in your yard, or pot some up on your porch, you would be very happily surprised both in flavor, and abundance, not to mention health benefits. (Most people don't think about the life force in fresh foods.)
I think I would like that. Maybe one day I will have the opportunity.
But, so is cancer natural. (No, I am not saying man is a cancer. But, cancer doesn’t play nicely with its host the body, and we don’t play nicely with our host, Mother Earth. So, there are some similarities.) Let’s hope we have more capacity to reform our ways than cancer does.
Well said. Just as cancer is a sickness of the body, ignorance is a sickness of the mind. It is our sickness, not our nature, that causes us to harm our planet, and ourselves.
Oh, I do actually believe animals are people with a different body, sorry AD. I like your grasshopper story S9, you can probobly see what the Golden Compass is about on Wikipedia,
Joe
Comments
Tonglen is a practice that should be undertaken with the guidance of an authorized teacher.
Although everyone of course has a right to his or her opinion, truth isn’t a democracy, or rather isn’t decided by voting. So that everyone should look at this, and decide for them selves.
Buddha cautioned us to look for our selves. We should not even take his word for it. The Buddha did not say that we should always vote on it. ; ^ )
Warm regards,
S9
^ ^ This orignal quote i made may be the best option afterall then?
I agree with S9 *thumbs up*:D
Joe
Om Mani Padme Hum:)
I am not sure that we can always decide what is best for us before hand. (Probably never for somebody else.) Would that life was that simple.
A Taoist would tell you to go with the flow; meaning be completely in the moment, give it your fullest attention, and then do what you feel is right.
Then we ca only wait to see what happens next, and do it all over again.
Peace,
S9
A person of integrity must always be willing to stand up for what s/he feels is right. Only in being willing to do this, are we allowed to find our own truth. Truth is always intimate in this way.
Love you too,
S9
Joe
Poor results,
Maybe just causing more trouble
When inviter can't cope with criticism
Nothing gained
Not necessarily talking about OP
Just not good cover-all ideology
Seeing as we're in Buddhism for beginners.
I used to be bullied in school for a short period of time. One day I just snapped! And, well, it didn't end good for him. I feel bad about what I did and I DON'T think violence is the answer. But looking on the bright side, he never bullied me again.
You probably learned more by doing something that made you feel bad about your self, than you could have learned from 100 years believing/pretending that you were not capable of such action. Everything has its “yes,” and its “no.”
Also:
You have no idea, if what the other guy learned from this episode was also good for him.
We can only do what we feel that we must in any one moment, and then let it go.
If we become attached to feeling bad, in order to prove to our self that we are good, than we are actually wasting our time, and suffering needlessly.
None of us are good…or bad, just human.
Hope this didn't make you mad. ; ^ )
Respectfully,
S9
do what ye will
according to Wiccan...
This (you can hurt non) is also a point made in the Bhagavad Gita, when Arguna (the warrior) didn’t want to fight.
Looked at from the exact opposite angle, Joseph Campbell (the myth guy) said that he finally realize you could not live without causing some harm.
Why do you think that they are both right? It’s a paradox.
Glad to see you back,
S9
I believe it true that you hurt everyone in your life (even dieing emotionaly hurts people), however; I'm curious- did you mean the warrior meant he did not think it right to hurt people or did he mean you actualy physicaly can't hurt people?
Were you talking to me when you meant 'glad to see you back'?
Joe
I haven’t noticed you about lately, and so I was glad to see you. But, maybe I haven’t been looking in the right places. ; ^ )
In the Bhagavad Gita, I believe they see this whole world like it is a dream, or like it is God’s playing. In that case as they say, to quote: “You only dream that you are the doer.”
I don’t believe they see us as being born and dying in any material way, but rather everything simply changing form.
In my personal metaphysical outlook, also, I do not see the my material form (AKA my body/brain) as who I actually am.
Now obviously, if in the dream, Arguna were to stick a sword into someone, that someone would say,"Ouch,, that hurt." But they are trying to say that in the big picture, or thinking on multiple levels, this would be a dream hurt. This story is a metaphor. It is trying to say that our 'Essencial Self' or 'our Buddha Nature' is not what we dream it to be.
I personally do not think that this gives me the right, within the dream itself, to run around sticking a sword in people. But, I do, on the other hand, think that if I did it within this dream, it would be a dream error, imagination.
In Buddhism, it is all about knowing who you are not, so that you may know who you are. You are not this dream.
But, again this isn’t permission to be hurtful. (Perhaps, someone could say this much better than I am, sorry.) Yet at the same time, making your dream self into a saint isn’t necessarily correct either, esp. if you are attached to the whole idea of how good you are. An attachment is an attachment, some aren't good attachments.
Getting caught up in judging right and wrong would easily keep you attached to your own ego-self.
Funny thing though, it seems to naturally fall out that when you are less attached to your ego-self, you are also less apt to cause willful harm. Maybe Plato was right about Goodness being still higher than the good/bad dualism even in this universeal dream.
Hope I am making some sense here. : ^ )
Peace,
S9
_________
I was going to say I don't remember going
And sorry but no; I don't really understand...
I read it through again and I sort of understand now
Oh, and I'd like to ask you a question, but to be able to ask the question I need to ask another question; Are you a theist, or atleast Agnostic? If yes then you'll probobly be able to answer my question.
Thanks S9
Joe:)
If you can prevent yourself from coming to harm, dont develop a mind of anger toward them this is just as bad and childish as they are being...use every situation as an oppertunity to extend control over your mind.:)
I am not a theist, an atheist or an agnostic, or any ‘ism for that matter. But, ask your question anyway, and I will do my best to answer you, as I have studied all of these disciplines at one time or another.
I use the word 'God' very loosely, more like you might use Buddha Nature, or Original Face, or Ultimate, or Essence, or Self (Capital S for Ultimate Self), or even Spirit, or Allah or the Christ. This is because after studying many/many religions, I have no problem with these words at a more 'mystical level' meaning basically the same thing.
Warm Regards,
S9
C: If you can prevent yourself from coming to harm, don’t develop a mind of anger toward them this is just as bad and childish as they are being...use every situation as an opportunity to extend control over your mind.
S9: That is good advice. In this way, you would see opportunity, and a chance to say thank you to the fellow testing you, and the situation itself with all of your own (usually hidden) weaknesses brought into the light.
Gratitude is certainly a click above anger. You not only get to learn control, but rightly seen you learn about their suffering and how to have compassion for their suffering.
Like Christmas in July. ; ^ )
Someone once asked a master, “Master what is heaven?”
The master answered, “Heaven is gratitude.”
Warm Regards,
S9
Good posting you show a good understanding
Sounds too condescendingly judgemental & dualistic to me. :wtf:
Although we may not mean it to be so, there is in this some condescension on our part, always, when we separate from another in order to protect our selves. We have turned our back in this way. This is very subtle. But, any separation at/all is a lack of love.
Compassion is different in this way, or so I have heard the Masters explain it. Compassion is only truly felt when we realize that the other person’s pain is actually our own pain, as Essentially we are One. This Oneness is Love.
Sincerely,
S9
__________________
Thanks,
Joe:)
L: I believe in a God and a Goddess- the Wiccan ones- by the way.
S9: Do you mean this literally like a Big Guy/Gal in the Sky (kind of) with their own personalities, and whimsical behaviors, or do you rather mean more like metaphorically, as they being representative of nature, who I call affectionately ‘Mother?’
L: “What do you think, if they were people would a god or goddess do if violently confronted?”
S9: I think that they would allow us to learn and correct ourselves, by allow our own foolishness to come back at us in equal measure, something like Global Warming. Learn or die!
Something less drastic/violent than destroying our whole planet, needlessly, something like anger, would just make us feel bad, cause us to have a lousy day, or even finally to get sick if we kept it up and up. In other words, our punishment/reward would be built right in, or would cause us to be Self-correcting.
What do you think, my good friend?
Warm Regards,
S9
Anger and violence are not necessary partners. I often hear people defend anger when the issue of self-defense comes up, as if the only way to engage in violence is with anger. Quite to the contrary, the only time violence is a wise response is in the absence of anger.
I generally view people as wild animals. I love animals, all different kinds. I respect their nature and accept them as they are. I recognize their suffering and feel deep compassion for them. This is not to say I go around hugging grizzly bears, kissing porcupines or feeding sharks. I regard them with caution and watch my step. If a wild dog bites me when threatened, I don't hate the dog or react in anger. The dog is just being a dog.
People are the same. Most act in accordance with their nature, driven by their craving and their suffering. Sometimes they behave in ways that defy our expectations or desires. Sometimes they can even be dangerous. These are not reasons to become angry. I just accept them as they are, and exercise appropriate caution.
If I am forced to defend myself, I do so. I do not act in anger, but with compassion for both myself and my attacker. I recognize that my aggressor surely suffers more than I, so I try to inflict the least possible amount of harm.
There is a martial arts motto known as the Shaolin Creed:
Check rather than hurt.
Hurt rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill.
For all life is precious,
nor can any be replaced.
The first most important element of self-defense is awareness. So it is with life.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." ~ Sun Tzu (the Art of War)
~ AD
No matter how angry someone may get, or how much they may want to hurt something/someone, you will not see anyone jumping into a tiger’s cage (real soon) in order to start a fight to the death with the biggest/bad-est tiger in there. I don’t care how bad of a day they may have had.
Nature knows this. Watch an animal that is frightened, instinctively puff up his fur coat in order to look bigger, and bare it’s teeth in order to look fiercer, and posture in such a way as to say, “This isn’t going to be easy sucker.”
So in a way, you avoid other people anger at you, too, by showing that you are not an easy mark.
Surprisingly, when people treat you better, you will find fewer reasons during your day to get angry.
This is a form of avoidance, which our good friend AD is pointing out.
Look deeply, as wisdom resides just below the surface of life,
S9
Joe, Dazzle and others were cautioning against a practise that can be dangerous without a teacher (learning from someone who knows the practice properly and can help you along the way).
MANY people misunderstand this practice (and others) because they feel they are literally taking in other people's suffering and don't know what to do next. Obviously, this isn't a good practice to suggest to just anyone, and obviously, it should be encourage that it be done under the supervision of a teacher and taught properly.
Insulin is a good thing, for those who need and and are taught how to use it. In fact, it saves lives. But used improperly, it can cause a lot of harm. You wouldn't suggest someone take medications and even give them medications, and tell them they don't need to talk to their doctor first, would you?
S9 is right, anything can be misused. That's why people were cautioning against this, because it's easily and inadvertantly misused in a way which causes suffering to the person who chose to do it. Dazzle and others were being RESPONSIBLE.
Of course no one here can stop anyone from doing it, but it was a warning out of concern for others' best interests. This has nothing to do with "democracy" or "the truth being voted on."
The Wiccan God and Goddess are a bit confusing...
Let me explain; they are both Atheistic, Polytheistic, Duotheistic, and Monotheistic...
Atheist: The God and Goddess are, to some, such as I, more metaphorical figures; yes.
Monotheistic: The God and Goddess are entwined together, as, in a way, one. (Hence the calling of your partner 'your other half').
Duotheistic: God and Goddess.
Polytheist: Usualy with in a number of Gods and Goddesses one or maybe a couple or even a few are considered more powerful or more worshipped than the others. In Wiccan mostly the Goddess is most worshipped. Some sects don't even worship the God!
The God is considered the sun and the Goddess the moon. I find this interesting because with out the sun and moon, life, if any, would be very different. I see the God as the one who sparked life and the Goddess as the mother, slowly changing the world as a baby is changed in the mother's womb, and possibly life is set for something more different...:)
On another note I doubt reincarnation and karma if it is not untrue would act entirely of it's kind. My beliefs are really like no others, so I just have to participate in a couple of religions and read about them all to allow my beliefs to blossom and ripen...
I can understand your being drawn to the Wiccan, there is a big part of me that is rather Pagan. I always especially liked the idea of the nature spirits; they being sort of like plant souls.
I think a lot of these feelings come out of our feelings of oneness with nature, (the Tao) Her plants, and Her animals, are great gifts to our human lives. I personally cannot imagine a sterile world without them. That to me would be more hellish than the so-called fires of hell.
In the ancient Greek tales, the gods and the goddesses are often actually representative of the different parts of the human psyche. The ancient Greeks were actually very astute in this area of understanding.
May of their tales are archetypal.
If you are a poet, this would be a good area of learning for you to look into.
L: My beliefs are really like no others.
S9: This is a good thing, because it shows that you are doing your own thinking. This takes courage.
Peace,
S9
~ AD
Of course I love many people to, people who try to get things changed for the better. (when I get a job I wish to have some sort of thing where you travel around the world and try to make a difference). We are nature. The Christian Heaven would be Hell to me. I like this world with it's nature and I always hate the world 'eternity'.
I'm not really a poet, I just like writing poetry... Really I'd also like to be an author, I'm witing a book at the minute called Life & Stuff. I try to make it funny where possible but it has a lot of serious hidden messages. It's very easy to mistake for being a bit crude and very offensive but by the end people would reaslise I'm writing about an imperfectly parallel world that's going to be changed, slowly, for the better... Really it's mostly a fantasy but in the real world at the same time,
Joe
A: We can't exist outside of nature. We are nature.
S9: Our body certainly cannot exist outside of nature. But, we can manage to rape nature to such an extent that we can turn green fields into desserts. (Look at the problems in Africa.)
When I used to skin dive some years back, going on 30 years now, I saw many, many star fish were building up, where there didn't used to be many, a symptom of pollution in our beautiful oceans, and the fish numbers had greatly diminished in a very short time.
And:
This was in the wilderness of Northern Maine.
I heard just the other night that there are some beautiful islands, with whole towns of people, and innocent animals living on them, that are now in danger of being completely submerged into the ocean, simply because the sea water is rising from the glaciers melting. Don’t get me started. ; ^ )
A: The separation between man and nature is an illusion, a trick of perception, an ego-centric delusion.
S9: No doubt this is the case. I read somewhere that a sign that a species is going to go extinct is, that they foul their own nest.
However, you are preaching to the choir, as I am somewhat of a Nature Mystic (Very much in love with Thoreau), and also a big part of my metaphysic is Taoism. I am a back to the earth hippy, as well, living on a farm and growing much of my own food. Da/da Da/da : ^ )
AD: It's funny how we look out from behind our eyes and see nature as if it's "out there," while we're "in here."
S9: That does seem to be an inheritance, from the Christian way of see this world as the enemy to their soul. But, like I told my friend Love, I am more of a Pagan in that regard.
When I travel to the city, once a year to hit the used book stores, it actually makes me kind of ill (spiritually and aesthetically) with its ugliness, crowding, dead buildings, and signs. (The overly sensitive empath in me.)
AD: When we gaze outward at the sublime beauty before us, how is it we don't recognize ourselves gazing back?
S9: Actually, I do. Did I tell you my grasshopper story?
Naturally yours,
S9
People fight with people, like cats fight with cats, don’t you think.
My cat forgives me most anything. But, he won’t allow another darn cat in his yard without scratching some fur of its backside. (Both species, cats and us, are territorial.) We even fight over ideas, very often. (Mental territory)
I have a sister who isn’t very happy with me, because, “I won’t let her save my soul.” (Paradigm territory)
; ^ )
This is probably a little like you wanting to save the earth, and her animals, and somebody else, an oil company executive perhaps, only caring about the bottom line (economically). Where will we find the peace, in such divergence? No wonder everyone is angry!
Living on this planet is a constant battle over territory; look at how we treat the bugs and mice that wander into our homes just trying to keep warm, and to find food. But, can we stop evicting them? Of course, not!
Although, I do admit to catching hornets and ladybugs in a empty peanut butter jar, and releasing them out my door. However, my friends DO laugh at me.
We have a love/hate thing going with other people, no doubt. Both of these extremes play across our mental landscape almost like moods. One wrong word, and its to the death, or often never forgiven.
Have you read a book called, “The Lord of the Flies?” It is excellent. It is about a bunch of children left to their own devices on an island, and how they create their own (as you say LOL) civilization. This book is very revealing of the human condition.
Go in peace my friend. You ARE your own world.
I write poetic prose, when the spirit moves me, and haiku.
Later,
S9
Without question, humankind does much to damage both its environment and its own well-being. But can we really say our constructions are any less natural than, say, a beaver dam? We are natural beings; everything we build comes from nature, however we may alter its form and composition. In our ignorance, we do much to cause terrible harm and suffering upon our planet, our co-inhabitants, and ourselves. Yet to view our activities as apart and separate from nature is inaccurate. Who can claim to understand the complex workings of nature?
This is not to say we are "okay" as we are. The human species must evolve and come to understand its impact upon its environment. The cruel atrocities committed daily against our non-human counterparts make me ache with sorrow, not only for the terrible suffering of the creatures, but for the blanket of delusion and ignorance covering the people who carry them out. I have seen humans commit unimaginable acts of thoughtless cruelty. There is no greater sickness than this, yet we seek no cure.
I'd love to hear it.
Actually beavers are only bad for the environment if they are introduced to an alien environment, by humans.
If I face a bully in any case the best thing I would do is ignore them and leave the situation as soon as possible. Yes, they might see me as a coward and maybe I AM a coward but I don't have the time and energy to deal with BS. The more you fight them they stronger they get
Hi, S9 and I had some discussions. I have been working with compassion meditation {Metta-Karuna} for 7 years or so. I have a unique take; and have gotten some amazing results. I think I am going to start a thread in the meditation forum entitled Metta Bhavana. I started one on the Five Hindrances; of which enmity is one.
There are several stories about the Buddha and his disciples dealing with rage, emlity, and so on directed at them. In one, the Buddha was attacked by a drunken elephant. The Buddha calmed the creature by generating what I call mettawaves. I think some doctor uses the term mettawaves; but I coined it on my own.:rolleyes:
In respect to Tonglen practices, well known practitioners such as Pema Chodron or Sharon Salzberg advise people to practice it and they do not approach it with the reservations mentioned here. They don't suggest one must practice it under the direct supervision of a teacher at all. They teach the practices themselves.
I would recommend studying their thoughts. Particularly Pema Chodron's "The Places That Scare You - A Guide To Fearlessness in Difficult Times". "Lovingkindness - The Revolutionary Art of Happiness" by Sharon Salzberg is also well worth taking a look.
I believe S9 is trying to encourage people to live the kind of life that is free from the fruits of fear. It does not mean people need to take their lives into their hands by being foolhardy. It just means accepting the fear, and learning to distinguish how much of it works to protect you, and how much of it oppresses you.
Namaste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qBIOjHEfr4
The speaker is Zachoeje Rinpoche and it makes a lot of sense in respect to the roots of anger.
Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriZgqtSDVQ&feature=related
I then try to do this, visualizing suffering and arousing the same compassion, with the 5 kinds of people; self, friend, enemy, meh person, and all beings in general. This appears to be a standard approach. There is another method I use as well. On other methods; I know people that virtually hate everyone and have no empathy. What I describe likely would not work for them.
BTW. an aside; Someone mentioned pity. If sadism & schadenfreude; deriving pleasure from others' suffering, are far opposites of karuna, I suspect pity is the near opposite.
I live in the USA, and have only travels out as far as Canada, and Mexico. Canada was great. Tijuana was a sewer.
My cat is a real mouser. He gets 3-4 mice/moles a week (non-stop) (He is a real child of Diana, the Huntress). This supplements his diet and gives him a chance to be playful, (an innocent killer.)
In my readings of animal medicine, they say that fresh meat such as this is necessary to his immune system. But, even if it weren’t for this, I believe that it would break his heart if I tried to stop him from actualizing in this way.
I think that we must be careful to be realistic, when it comes to nature, and not to put Walt Disney in charge of what we understand of nature.
This being said, I sometimes apologize to a tomato when I pick it, and take its life. I do not want to loose tract of the fact that I am taking a life out of necessity, or to cause needless harm, or become wasteful without gratitude.
I like the fact that some people are studying in order to make cities more livable. Introducing moving water into our environment is supposed to be good for both our human nerves/happiness and our good health. Small improvements such as these may be the wave of the future. Especially as this planet becomes more and more crowded. Robert Audrey wrote a book about how over crowding caused violent behavior in primates. (Book: Territorial Imperative)
Did you know that the color green is supposed to be very healing? Maybe that has something to do with plants contributing to our health, in just one more way.
L: Have you ever seen the Golden Compass?
S9: No, tell me about it, please? : ^ )
L: I used to be bullied and then I was a bully, but on the bright side I know what fuels people.
S9: Like a pendulum finds its balance.
Peace, my friend,
S9
Q: AD:
"I saw deep in the eyes of the animals the human soul look out upon me. I saw where it was born deep down under feathers and fur, or condemned for a while to roam four-footed among the brambles, I caught the clinging mute glance of the prisoner and swore that I would be faithful." ~ Henry David Thoreau
S9: I bought this quote forward, because of its coincidental closeness to my own experience with the grasshopper.
One day, while in my back yard, I noticed a grasshopper circling around a post trying to avoid my noticing it. But alas, I just kept moving with it, a little dance we did, until it finally gave up, and looked me right in the eye.
What I saw was amazing. It was the same 'I Am' looking out of this grasshopper that I found within me, and call my own most essential 'I Am.' I was actually seeing myself looking back at me from within this grasshopper. Silly as this may seem to another, this was a true Spiritual insight for me. One I cannot deny.
We see this same thing in other people, and other animals, all of the time, but often because of preconceptions about our own superiority, we simply miss this. What a loss.
AD: I am also connected with mysticism and Taoism.
S9: I’m not surprised. I feel these in you. : ^ )
AD: I envy you, growing your own food.
S9: You would be surprised at just how much more taste there is in home grown foods. They have bred taste right out of our foods in the super markets, when they were going for shelf life. Don’t know why it worked out this way, but it is certainly seems to be the case.
After you start eating home grown tomatoes, the store tomatoes are a real let down, almost not worth the effort to eat them. Corn is amazing. So, if you can stick a few tomato plants in your yard, or pot some up on your porch, you would be very happily surprised both in flavor, and abundance, not to mention health benefits. (Most people don't think about the life force in fresh foods.)
AD: Where you see ugliness and death, (in the city) I see poetry.
S9: Yes, it is probably some lack in me, to miss this. It may be a thing of ratio between plants and buildings/cars/whatever.
Obviously, I don’t live in a tree. And, I enjoy books, and computers, etc. I am also a great lover of the arts. I even enjoy architecture. I don’t always know all the “whys” of these things.
Someone once said that the creations of man are dead things. (I guess they didn’t count gardens in that.) ; ^ ) And like you say, we are a part of nature, and what we do is natural to us.
But, so is cancer natural. (No, I am not saying man is a cancer. But, cancer doesn’t play nicely with its host the body, and we don’t play nicely with our host, Mother Earth. So, there are some similarities.) Let’s hope we have more capacity to reform our ways than cancer does.
Warm Regards,
S9
I think I would like that. Maybe one day I will have the opportunity. Well said. Just as cancer is a sickness of the body, ignorance is a sickness of the mind. It is our sickness, not our nature, that causes us to harm our planet, and ourselves.
Joe