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Anger control
Fenix
Veteran
What can you do, when someones up in your face saying really nasty things, pushing you and not stopping or laughing at you etc. Do you just stand there and take it?
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Comments
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Unfortunately, im a very easy target.
Its hard i know, especially if your going to get hit anyway
Unfortunately, depending on circumstances (like where you live) it has become 'normal' to face violence or verbal abuse.
Its unaceptable, yet people seem to be desensitised to it.
If its not so much the pushing (or fear of being hit) but the actual them laughing at you, then again say back off, and walk away.
I guess it all depends on what they're saying to you.
Is this someone you actually know Fenix?
First its me im talking about, second I am sad to hear about the fact that you are an easy target and if that leads to you being teased:(. I on the other hand am not so much of an easy target nor do I get that much teased. Its just when someone is saying hurtful things to me or trying purposely to get on my nerves, I get so angry and get agressive or opposite get really sad and act submissive and was wondering how to properly deal with it then those 2 extremes.
No, not necessarily. But you have to be skilful in your response.
Turning the other cheek doesn't mean you are obligated, morally, to permit others to ride roughshod all over you.
In fact, 'Turning the other cheek' could be more insulting and hurtful than a violent response, such was the dreadful perception of all things 'left-sided'....
It was non-violent, non-confrontational and non-argumentative.
But effective.
I wouldnt call it teased, more threatened, but its because i live in a (as the media would call it) a 'bad' city. I'm a sitting duck.
Like i said, walk away (Fede explained it better when she said 'turn the other cheek') its about not rising to thier bait, or sinking to thier level.
Walking away means turning your back, which is insulting to someone looking for a fight, but that doesn't mean your just taking it. To me, it means your a bigger person for not ending up in a public brawl.
Courage to face your own feelings of humiliation, shame, stupidity, and inadequacy.
Patience to endure these feelings as long as they last.
Attention to the way you react to your feelings by identifying with them, rejecting them, trying to fix them, etc.
Then remember to breathe.
Deeply.
This calms the mind, and gives you a moment to group yourself and gather your sanity....
Furthermore, the instant of placid silence is often disarming....
Particularly when it is followed by your saying something along the lines of...
"Goodness, you are very angry about this, aren't you?"
or -
"That's interesting.... what makes you say that?"
Every situation is different, but what we must learn is not to merely react. Rather, we must "choose," how we will act or even feel.
Never except what they are giving you, when it is something you do not want.
For instance, just because someone is angry with you, does not mean that you have to follow their lead. If you take their anger, just because they want you to, what you have actually done is to harm your own self. When you stand calmly, and refuse to take their anger, you have protected your self from this very harm.
Never under estimate your capacity to defuse a moment. For instance, if someone is laughing at you, laugh with them, or even say something funnier about your own inability or whatever. This will show them that their zinger missed its target, and maybe at the same time show that you don’t even want to prove to them that you are perfect. See what I mean?
Taking control of your own reactions is empowering.
And:
Breathe your self into the calm place, and stand on that safe island.
Or as Lin Chi said, “Play the Host, so that everything that comes to you, or into your world, is your guest.” (Paraphrased)
“We have nothing to fear, but fear its self.”
S9
If they are only expressing themselves verbally, staying calm and trying to understand the root cause of their hostile behavior is the best option.
If they physically push me I will do whatever I can do to subdue them to the point where they are no longer a threat. At 6'4" and 220 lbs, nobody has ever pushed me in my adult life though.
Usually I take alot though because I'm very submisive:(
This year I've been bullied my a girl called Hayley Lewis who physically abused me but I told her to stop being a b**chy cow and leave me alone. She's still a bit of a syko though. I was once eating my lunch to look out the window and find her dragging a screaming girl across the pavement by her hair!
Then there's James Webster who calls my last name Yard-Lay (It's pronounced Year-Delay!!). For some reason it annoys me alot people pronouncing my name wrong, especially on perpoise. :mad:
My name's spelt Yeardley by the way.
I just told Webster to "Get Lost you Creep!!"..."Quack Quack!"
Why are people so iritating?:mad:
Is it our nature to iritate and be iritated?
Joe
I think i learned to take it, what i didnt expect was that it would carry on into adult life.
I heard somewhere that sadist are drawn to people that they somehow believe to be victims. (Most bullies are cowards.) If you find yourself victimized, I believe that your should in all honesty examine your own actions and figure out, what signals am I putting out, so that these people are drawn to me.
They say these signals that we are projecting are in our body language.
I think this is why some people study the marshal arts to gain confidence, as it will show up in the way you carry yourself, and you will have far fewer problems without ever raising a hand.
When you are pushed to defend yourself, these marshals art also show you how to deflect violence by using their very own energy against them. For instance, if they rush at you, you can, at the very last possible minute, step aside, or even take hold of their arm and facilitate their own forward motion past you. They will soon tire of playing the fool.
Because it would be difficult to change the whole world, I guess we must change our selves.
Peace through strength,
S9
Er, i think i should point out that i have had operations that leave me with walking difficulties, thats why im a sitting duck to muggers and yobs etc.
I cant really send out any other 'signal' apart from "mug me and i'll shove my cane up your arse"
How Buddhism enters into this is skillfulness. Believe me, I have utilized this approach and it has helped me to be very effective in some very dicey situations.
First, he looked at the motivation of the aggressor. His identified motivators were getting attention, power, revenge and helplessness. It also involves some mindfulness because he stated that a person can identify the motivator by identifying their own state.
When someone is only trying to get attention, you will know because the emotion you feel is usually pestered or slightly irritated. Imagine a little kid pulling on your clothes or interrupting you when you are on the phone. Why do they do it? Attention. If you drop what you are doing and give them attention, you are rewarding the behavior. If you snap at the child, you are rewarding the behavior. Reward the behavior and you can expect a lot of it. The correcting response comes fairly naturally to most. Give the child attention on your terms. Be polite and tell the child you will give them attention when you are finished what you are doing. Respectful of both your need and your child's.
The next motivation on the continuum would be power. This would be TRs in your face kind of situation. How do you feel when confronted with someone who wants to take power over you? Usually the people who are being manipulated will get angry and try to assert their own power, or they will become flustered or overwhelmed and give in and go with the flow. Both responses reward the behavior. This sets up either a power struggle or bullying situation depending on how you respond. The skillful response to someone challenging you is to empower them. I am not saying give in to them. I am saying think about how you respond. Think about what is important to you. Strategize about what you need to come out of this where you maintain your dignity, and respect of your own rights. Lay some boundaries. What would you be willing to do, and where do you stand your ground. Both bullying and fighting for power are manipulative. Fenix is being baited into anger. It is being manipulated just as much as being bullied is. Either way, when you give into manipulation, you lose. Thinking your way out of it skillfully is going to benefit both you and your aggressor.
The next motivation is revenge. Sometimes if an aggressor loses a power struggle, or if the power struggle has escalated to the level where people are deeply hurt, the aggressor will up the ante and desire to do some real damage on the other person. You can tell you are in this mode when you feel like getting revenge on your aggressor. The key is to not lash out when you feel this way. Things are getting worse and promise to continue if something isn't done to re-establish the relationship. The antidote is to build the relationship at this point. Never buy into the revenge.
The last motivation is helplessness. Passive aggressive behavior is also a way to manipulate and a way to get someone doing work for you. Again, a form of empowering helps here. Arranging for success is the greatest antidote. That and positive regard.
Believe me, I have utilized these approaches with some pretty challenging characters and they are very effective. Not only that, but they are all positive, respectful and maintain your skill.
Negative behavior towards you has a goal. It is guided by the expectation that you are going to respond in a predictable way. The challenge and reward is to become mindful of the situation you are in and use your head to respond in an effective manner.
Namaste
You are in a pickle, my friend. My advise would be, if I were in your position, to purchase a stun gun, and don’t be afraid to use it.
I knew an elderly woman who was pulled out of her wheel chair and thrown to the ground. When the kid saw that she had only a dime in her purse, he got so mad at her that he beat her badly enough to put her in the hospital.
Don’t carry a purse, or even hide a money belt on your person. Get rid of red flags of any kind.
Are you being mugged all the time, sweet person?
Concern for your welfare,
S9
Why do some people do this?
Because they find it rewarding. The trick is to never reward.
Escalating the situation with weapons is not only risky, but puts you in the same boat with the person who has harmed you. Are there other ways to address the situation?
when im pushed i can really have a temper, but ive learned that the best response is silence, the best action to walk away..
words, can only hurt you if you allow them to. Think about it- when someone calls you a name, what is being hurt. usually its your ego, you think that you are too important/ nice/ good / blameless to be called names... you are attached to your ego , to your own sense of importance and so the words hurt and anger you...
Remain silent, dont fuel the fire.... close your eyes or take a deep breath and try to remain as unattached as possible to your ego.. tell yourself over and over '' i am not important'' ... let the names wash over you rather than wound you...
if possible - try to walk away...
although im a girl, ive had many experiences with kids on trains, drunk or just looking for someone to harass... normally i just look at them for a minute or too.. as if considering what to say - then i get up an walk away... usually it leaves them speachless...
if someone is really determined to physically harm you then of course you have to defend yourself... but always do the minimum of harm needed to keep your safe... if you indulge in a beating just because you can then you are as bad as the person that attacks you...
whatever the situation - its always better to run than to stay and fight...
as for pepper spray etc .. i guess .. .but wouldnt it be better to spend the time trying to aviod the situations where you might need to use it in the first place ?
i know its not always so simple, but i think if you start carrying knives etc then its always going to lead to trouble... practise running first ...
I don't believe running (unless you are at risk) will stop the situation. If your antagonizer is someone who knows you, that will only increase the motivation to pick on you.
Ive been attacked (assaulted) three times in broad daylight, and mugged once.
The one thing that has always stayed with me, was when i was held hostage in a flat and a man tried to kill me. I have never gotten over that, it haunts me to this day, and i still bear the scars.
I feel glad to live where I do, it's perfectly safe and friendly in the day time and friendly night life... there is some dodginess, but it's OK.
He got only 5 days in prison, hence why you just can't fight these people.
I have to wonder sometimes, what is the difference between staying in an abusive relationship, and staying in an abusive neighborhood?
I know that people get used to neighborhoods, but so do they get used to a sweet husband, who one day starts to drink, and using his fists. Or, there are always money issues, or jobs, or kids. But, to stay under such abuse, fully knowing that the police and court system isn’t going to protect you, is unfathomable to me. Perhaps you can explain.
Even if you need to be near the hospitals, there are ways around this.
I mean no disrespect here. I really have been wondering about this issue for a long, long time. It makes me so sad.
Now, I know that city rents are much higher than something nice in the country with trees, and birds, and safe places to walk, so why?
Peace,
S9
I didn't think that was the topic
City rents are nowhere near what it is in the countryside!!!
You dont live in the UK do you?
Please let me explain my question. : ^ )
I was saying that staying in an abuse neighborhood is very much the same thing as staying in an abusive relationship. You ARE staying in an abusive neighborhood. Why?
No, I live in the USA. But, I am not saying that you should find yourself a country estate. There are always ways to live on the cheap. Do they have mobile homes in the UK?
Peace,
S9
What is your problem?
Neighbourhoods dont start off like that here, they become like it due to lack of policing and poor punishment under law.
People can't just up and go live in a caravan/mobile home in the country!
How is this thread about me?
It started about giving advise to someone, and you turned into being about me, firstly because of giving off signals that im a victim! And now because for some reason you want to know why i wont live in a caravan.
Get back on topic and help the poster at the beginning.
This is ridiculous!
:ot:
I am sorry.
s9
Lets get back on topic quick
I agree that people certainly have a tendency to blame others for what they, themselves, feel, and this leads in a natural progression to violence of differing degrees.
Perhaps, the best place to begin, if we ever want any peace at/all, is with our selves. Maybe, if we took responsibility for our own feelings, what ever they might be, we wouldn’t be so apt to project all wrongs or negative feelings away from our selves, and onto others. We wouldn’t be able, so easily, to paint the other guy as having hurt us, and therefore deserving of our anger.
Someone, who gets right up, and into someone else’s face with insults, is probably someone who has made a habit of blaming others. We can readily see what that has gotten him. Anyone, who acts like that, is obviously suffering as an outcome of such behavior.
We only think that anger is a relief, or a venting. Anger actually travels in two directions. One direction is certainly outward, but this very same anger also travels in equal measure back at you, like a two edged sword.
And:
Anger is just one of the faces of fear.
Quote: “It is in protecting yourself, that you protect others.”
If we do not let words hurt us, than we will consequently not need to set a new balance by hurting the person back, just because we feel that he has offended us. So the cycle of violence stops with us.
Buddhism is very good in this area, in this way. When we use mindfulness, or some other sort of meditation in order to clarify, we begin to know who we are. Consequently, we are not out there waving in a breeze, and waiting for someone else to define who and what we are.
So, if someone say, "You are certainly stupid. " We can then look at these words objectively, as if they were information only, and question their validity from cool calmness.
“Am I, in fact, stupid?”
“No, I am not.”
Or, “I guess sometimes I am really stupid, pretty darn stupid,” you might say with a chuckle. “Guess that makes me human.”
But, in this way of dealing, you are in the driver’s seat, and taking information in, only if it is useful to you. How can you be hurt by neutral information that you can either take, or leave?
“Anger is a dish, best eaten cold.”
Peace,
S9
Tonglen can be done on the spot as well as prior to - or subsequent to such interactions. Just as "just showing up" is eighty percent of success - "removing oneself" is eighty percent of survival sometimes. Comes down to choice. Nothing wrong with defending oneself either. Lessons to be learned.
How does Tonglen work though, if say your actually being attacked?
Thank you
Hi Subjectivity
I can explain it to you.:rolleyes:
Here in England prices for living in the country as opposed to the cities are much higher. Country living is mostly the reserve of those can afford 'top end' prices . Unless their family have had property in a village for several generations (before prices rose) then..they need to either be self -employed or affluent enough to afford the transport costs involved in living so far from sources of possible employment.
I work as an outreach worker with the elderly and disabled with poverty issues. In my experience most of my clients would like nothing more than living somewhere quiet where they did not live under the constant threat of being abused either verbally or physically every time they leave their homes. I have clients who are trapped inside their own homes following some horrendous mugging or attack which has left them traumatised and unable to face the prospect of risking it again.
If indeed they were offered an opportunity to move out into more desirable and crime free areas they would unable to survive. For the elderly and disabled the need to be near hospitals and services is paramount. Essential services may need to be accessed quickly in an emergency. Without their own means of transport they do not have this reassurance. They cannot afford to run cars, or pay for taxis.
Our police force and judicial service do protect us to the best of their abillity but are beset with their own issues .. to name but a few; under funding, unrealistic administration loads, unobtainable targets and a bureaucratic stranglehold of polictical correctness.
It isnt always a bleak as I make it sound of course! I just wanted to point out that when it IS the options for moving elsewhere are very limited for most people of modest income. Many do not have a choice about where they live, playing 'victim' does not even come into the equation!!:eek:
Medusa
If I do not become posessed by anger, hatred, fear or suchlike, it doesn't really matter what I do. Seriously, if I manage to be like sand which lets the outpour pass through without catching any, there is that wonderful spaciousness which gives me many options. The situation becomes a sort of a game and all sorts of things can be done: being apologetic for the person's anger, just keeping quiet or making a witty remark may all be good ways to act that will not be cause for regret later.
On the other hand, if my skin got caught in the confrontation, almost anything I do is going to be unskillful and make me regret it later on. In that case it is best to "stay like a log" (one of Pema Chodron's books uses the term): not do anything, not say anything and retreat at the earliest opportunity. That way, at least, the fire within will not be fueled further.
I think Buddhism is mostly about dealing with mental and emotional states right at the point where they're being born, not controlling them. If I am successful at that, the right reactions to many situations will occur spontaneously, without any premediation and with good results.
That is exactly the problem. EXACTLY.
Thats exactly how i should have explained it, unfortunately at the time i took offence instead *ashamed*
Sorry Subjectivity9
I just haven't got a way with words like MsMedusa.
*sticks a pin in her*
It is easy for me to understand your frustration, with me. Just hearing about your plight made me extremely sad that you were getting the dirty end of the stick.
I truly wish you the best.
I am only sorry that I drove you to drink with my insistent attempts at a solution. Maybe I over did it a little.
My bad!
Peace,
S9
Joe:o
Its not worth falling out over.
*hugs all round*
It's a much better idea to do Metta (loving kindness) practice.
A loving kindness chant in Pali with the Ven. Ariya Nana can be heard here and the words are provided in English too:
http://www.wildmind.org/metta/special-lovingkindness-meditations/lovingkindness-chant
Kind wishes,
Dazzle
There isn’t anything in this world that cannot be misused in this world. Thus we have people suing a manufacturer, for instance, for the misuse of their products because they were not warned against it. So we have silly warnings all over everything, like "this ladder is not meant to be swallowed whole."
I daresay that even ‘loving-kindness,’ could in some way be misused by someone who was completely delusional. I have to wonder, how many bad things are done for someone’s own good or out of misplaced love.
For instance, I remember coming to the conclusion that, I was going to have to back off and let my daughter make her own mistakes, or I would both interfere with her personal growth, or even in the long run make her weak.
“The road to hell is paved with good intensions.
This way goes; putting the priests are put back in charge of our spiritual welfare. No thanks.
I personally like trying out spiritual practices, all by myself, in order to see for myself, just what they can do for me or not.
Fear is often our biggest enemy, as in, “This could be dangerous.” Nothing will kill an adventurous spirit more quickly.
Warning:
Peace can be misleading. Attempt it at your own peril. ; ^ )
Respectfully submitted,
S9
I have been an offline practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism for many years so I do speak from some experience of these matters. Tonglen always used to be an offline practice which was teacher -directed.
If you choose to do certain practices which can be found on the internet yourself, then that's up to you. A practice such as Tonglen may also not be a good one to recommend to those who might have certain mental health problems.
As I stated before, it has caused distress in sensitive people who then panicked and 'felt' that they had actually absorbed the suffering of others.
To dismiss my words which are meant kindly and say that anything can be misused is therefore irresponsible if one is actually encouraging misuse.
Huh ? My post was about Tonglen , so this is a completely irrelevent comment in your reply to me.
Ok, I've made my point that Tonglen isn't suitable for everyone - back to topic !
Kind regards
Dazzle
Yes, indeed, you have made your point. But, perhaps it is irresponsible, on your part, to run around frightening people, esp. mentally ill people, who are so easily frightened.
There have always been, and probably will always be, people who run around yelling, “The sky is falling.”
Enough said.
S9