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Every life is deserving of freedom, conscience is the cost of luxury. If we say nothing to change it, we have denied our own capacity for conscience. I would rather starve than be faced with such denial to have had the ability to end starvation for every life and simply indulged the edification of the self.
The money that is traveling through this system of Belief this very second, could change the entire face of existence......... One second! Within a lifetime of offerings. It is not the point within Buddhism to change the condition, if it was, it would have already done so. Buddhism indulges the capacity of the mind to grasp certain concepts, but doesn't have the insight to produce an arena where all minds have the same capacity to do so? Where do you think these ideas of elitism came from? Was this the intent?
If you study the temporal aspect within the development of Buddhism. you will see an oppressive rule. The power within this rule was so great, the physical aspect of expression could not extend beyond it. This was accepted in the realm of thought, this is where the mind took over. It was not the intent of this belief to remain within the mind, the freedom we have now to physically change the condition was never a possibility in the development of these ideals. The only hope was to reach the minds within this acceptance. We no longer have to accept the condition, we have the ability to free not only the mind but the body..... I'm sure this was the ultimate intent within Buddhism without being able to conceptualize such an existence, somewhere along the way, we got stuck in the mind because of this.
I want to bring forward an expression of mindfulness inspired by our great teacher Buddha.
There seems to be a fear that I am seeking to destroy something here, that I bring malice within my words. In the concept of attachment, if there were no box, no walls to defend.... What could I possibly destroy?
When I tell my arm to lift it does? Its rather magical and mysterious. How does it do that? I can hit a tennis ball back with practice. I know that you can say oh hte cerebellum blah blah. To a child that is alive new information. But I think sometimes adults use their "knowledge" to deaden their experience.
Things get "to much understood" to the point where the wonder is dead.
There are lives that can't even lift their gaze, they must avert their eyes in fear that they be plucked from the head.
We have the ability to produce such a profound brilliance within our own overt expression, that it would be impossible for anyone not to see themselves within it. How wondrous that would be!
We are talking about Persian rule, giving way to Greco rule. When you examine Hellenistic views, they ascribed to a society run by the elite... We're then talking about many civil wars outside the rule of Alexander the Great. It was Cyrus the Great and later Chandragupta Maurya where we began to see motions in human rights although far from free, it advanced the profits of it's subjects within a hierarchal rule. These were probably both defining moments in creating and advancing Buddhism.
No, it's actually very mindful as a response...... Beautiful to the knowledge if it's temporal use within it's time. The point that is not understood is that it is a response within an oppressive rule.... We now are the ruler of the conditions that produce an oppressive aspect of mind and don't know how to respond using these beautiful yet archaic expressions of the mind. There is a wealth of knowledge within Buddhism, we just need to apply it to our evolved abilities.
Buddhism accepted this aspect of rule and does not speak out to any act of changing it..... When we accept this expression being complete to the advancement of the mind, we adhere to the same acceptance of oppression, even now when it has become our own.
Have you ever tried to convince a Christian that their belief is quite condemning and contradictory?
Not very hard. I put out info, and let them do with it what they will. I don't try to turn christians into what I am. The fact that you're trying to make people think like you shows that you don't understand.
This reminds me a bit of the interpretive view of apokálypsis in Christianity..... Today the word means destruction and the end of the world and humanity, when it was actually meant to reveal something hidden, to open up. Revelations in the bible states over and over..... Soon, now, that it will soon come to pass; yet the predominant view within the Christian belief is that it refers to a future event. The whore babylon refers to the land and those who consume of it, it addresses seven specific "churches" known to exist within it's time. The heads of the beast, the kings all refer to prominent figures of an empire of rule..... Claudius Nero Caesar's numerical value equals 666 or 616 in it's transliterate value from Greek to latin, both numbers are present in biblical reference. The men who have this number stamped into their forehead, being the men who adhered to the thought within the rule. These were coded messages to the seven specific churches addressed, a horn that is blown to call them into action. Revelations is an expression speaking out against Roman rule; when you understand it's Historical value of these words, you can see the desire of freedom within them.
The words within Buddhism are far more advanced in thought, but they still have contextual value given their historical use.
I wanted to add this because I like it...... Paul in Corinth responds specifically to the criticisms of John when he addresses this Church. 1 Corinthians 14 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
A wealth of expression when you know what is written.
The point I am trying to make in this very obtuse manner is to ask you to step outside the realm of your belief. There is a wealth of expression within the bible, Christians don't see it because of their personal attachment, they believe it speaks specifically to their time and what they are facing in life. Now examine your attachment to Buddhism, are you missing something?
@revolutionary, My hat off to you. That's what always seems to come up, people clinging to their views and not having the introspection/self-honesty to know that they are clinging to views. Gotta have room to be flexible and take other things into account, re-evaluate beliefs and the like.
I will put it together..... I've been writing towards this for several years.... Let me organize some key points and offer it up where it doesn't become too lengthy.
I have seen what you can do in 20 minutes. I am afraid to see the results of several years work. Still you have gone on at length about this vision of yours and its time to come clean. Buddhism provides a path to insight. Can you? Also I get the feeling that you may not have researched Buddhism too deeply as you continue to refer to a box of beliefs. There are some very wise people on here,(I am not one of them)who seem to be unwilling to engage you, because of your approach I imagine. Please don't take offense. I look forward to your response to my earlier post.
I think its a bit of both. I see the issue of the individual in relation to environment as a kind of cosmic tug of war. Whenever we make an action, it effects the whole, and whenever something else happens, supposedly apart from us, it ends up affecting us, whether we realize it or not. I think reality is like a fractal in that way. A small change affects the entirety of the system. The question of free will often has to do with "Are we influencing our environment, or is it influencing us". Well. I don't think its either, because were one in the same. Were an extension of the environment, and the environment is an extension of us. We wouldn't exist if it wasn't for our environment. Were some sort of focal point, reflection, or filtration of it. The information bombarding us from "the outside" in the form of sound waves and photon clusters bouncing off of us are just as much extensions of us as the organs in our brains that process it. Our psyhces are constantly shaped by that information. If we were exposed to different information, we'd be different people. Our egos make us think we differ from the external world, but a careful examination would show it isn't so. I think the whole universe might be a single consciousness folded into itself. That would explain why all the seemingly separate units of matter function off the same rules and are all compatible with one another. That's my take anyway. If free will didn't exist, I don't think consciousness would exist. In that scenario, soulless entities might even discuss free will, but they'd just be throwing symbols around in a purely mechanistic way. An observer wouldn't actually be seeing or feeling anything as we do. They'd just be processors of non-living information. I'd say they'd be like computers, but I don't really know how conscious or unconscious computers are, especially considering that they have the same electrons flowing through their circuitry as we do in our minds. Consciousness wouldn't be a property of the electrons whizzing around in their brains as it is for us. That's how I'll put it.
I don't think its either, because were one and the same.
That is exactly, precisely, the case MellowViper. We're not apart from our environment and making choices independent of our environment and our internal conditions. The wall between internal and external is an illusion created by self/duality-view. We are as much a part of the environment as a tree. What we often fail to realize is that the internal is alike the external, an entire unseen world of conditions and interaction.
I don't think its either, because were one and the same.
That is exactly, precisely, the case MellowViper. We're not apart from our environment and making choices independent of our environment and our internal conditions. The wall between internal and external is an illusion created by self/duality-view. We are as much a part of the environment as a tree. What we often fail to realize is that the internal is alike the external, an entire unseen world of conditions and interaction.
Yah. its like we think our internal thoughts are completely separate from the environment, when its from those thoughts that all our actions arise out of and bleed into the external world. The same electrons flowing through our brains and building those thoughts are the same electrons in the cells of a tree or the crystaline structures of a rock.
The apparent truth is that we are all different. The ultimate truth is that we are all the same thing. The real truth is both. And if they're both true, than neither of them are true, for they're contradictory.
I suspect the answer may be yes to both your questions. Perhaps we exercise free-will, yet only within a broad conditioned arena of pre-determination. Here, of all places, we can acknowledge the dependencies of both concepts. Both are of a phenomenal nature, each bound and defined by the converse of the other. As one does not acknowledge free-will through simple possession or epiphany, we exercise the concept within the vast limits, known and unknown, of pre-determination in-turn acknowledging those actions as free-will. So perhaps the answer isn’t as curt as the differences between linear and non-linear causality, but rather between our concepts of free-will and pre-determination and the perfection of their co-existence.
....if I had free-will I would choose to understand what this means....
I think its a bit of both. I see the issue of the individual in relation to environment as a kind of cosmic tug of war. Whenever we make an action, it effects the whole, and whenever something else happens, supposedly apart from us, it ends up affecting us, whether we realize it or not. I think reality is like a fractal in that way. A small change affects the entirety of the system. The question of free will often has to do with "Are we influencing our environment, or is it influencing us". Well. I don't think its either, because were one in the same. Were an extension of the environment, and the environment is an extension of us. We wouldn't exist if it wasn't for our environment. Were some sort of focal point, reflection, or filtration of it. The information bombarding us from "the outside" in the form of sound waves and photon clusters bouncing off of us are just as much extensions of us as the organs in our brains that process it. Our psyhces are constantly shaped by that information. If we were exposed to different information, we'd be different people. Our egos make us think we differ from the external world, but a careful examination would show it isn't so. I think the whole universe might be a single consciousness folded into itself. That would explain why all the seemingly separate units of matter function off the same rules and are all compatible with one another. That's my take anyway. If free will didn't exist, I don't think consciousness would exist. In that scenario, soulless entities might even discuss free will, but they'd just be throwing symbols around in a purely mechanistic way. An observer wouldn't actually be seeing or feeling anything as we do. They'd just be processors of non-living information. I'd say they'd be like computers, but I don't really know how conscious or unconscious computers are, especially considering that they have the same electrons flowing through their circuitry as we do in our minds. Consciousness wouldn't be a property of the electrons whizzing around in their brains as it is for us. That's how I'll put it.
And my hat is off to this.......... What a magnificent expression....... It matters not what inspired it, but that it is a boundless expression of you. There is no title that can hold it. thank you
I will put it together..... I've been writing towards this for several years.... Let me organize some key points and offer it up where it doesn't become too lengthy.
I have seen what you can do in 20 minutes. I am afraid to see the results of several years work. Still you have gone on at length about this vision of yours and its time to come clean. Buddhism provides a path to insight. Can you? Also I get the feeling that you may not have researched Buddhism too deeply as you continue to refer to a box of beliefs. There are some very wise people on here,(I am not one of them)who seem to be unwilling to engage you, because of your approach I imagine. Please don't take offense. I look forward to your response to my earlier post.
I promise soon! Believe it or not, I started entering into concepts beyond the struggle here..... I was coined as being crazy or that I made no sense. I would rather not indulge any short comings, but extend into many boundless aspects of thought. I believe this was necessary in gaining the attention in order to do so.
Believe it or not, I started entering into concepts beyond the struggle here..... I was coined as being crazy or that I made no sense. I would rather not indulge any short comings, but extend into many boundless aspects of thought. I believe this was necessary in gaining the attention in order to do so.
Ah yes. People may think you're crazy. In truth, people are crazy. And therefore when they hear the truth, which they've never even thought of, they think you're crazy. It doesn't matter how sane and logical it is. It doesn't matter how perfectly you can explain it in a way that they can't deny. Some will think you're crazy.
Comments
It is not the point within Buddhism to change the condition, if it was, it would have already done so.
Buddhism indulges the capacity of the mind to grasp certain concepts, but doesn't have the insight to produce an arena where all minds have the same capacity to do so?
Where do you think these ideas of elitism came from? Was this the intent?
We no longer have to accept the condition, we have the ability to free not only the mind but the body..... I'm sure this was the ultimate intent within Buddhism without being able to conceptualize such an existence, somewhere along the way, we got stuck in the mind because of this.
There seems to be a fear that I am seeking to destroy something here, that I bring malice within my words. In the concept of attachment, if there were no box, no walls to defend.... What could I possibly destroy?
Things get "to much understood" to the point where the wonder is dead.
We have the ability to produce such a profound brilliance within our own overt expression, that it would be impossible for anyone not to see themselves within it. How wondrous that would be!
When you examine Hellenistic views, they ascribed to a society run by the elite... We're then talking about many civil wars outside the rule of Alexander the Great. It was Cyrus the Great and later Chandragupta Maurya where we began to see motions in human rights although far from free, it advanced the profits of it's subjects within a hierarchal rule. These were probably both defining moments in creating and advancing Buddhism.
The point that is not understood is that it is a response within an oppressive rule.... We now are the ruler of the conditions that produce an oppressive aspect of mind and don't know how to respond using these beautiful yet archaic expressions of the mind.
There is a wealth of knowledge within Buddhism, we just need to apply it to our evolved abilities.
Revelations in the bible states over and over..... Soon, now, that it will soon come to pass; yet the predominant view within the Christian belief is that it refers to a future event.
The whore babylon refers to the land and those who consume of it, it addresses seven specific "churches" known to exist within it's time. The heads of the beast, the kings all refer to prominent figures of an empire of rule..... Claudius Nero Caesar's numerical value equals 666 or 616 in it's transliterate value from Greek to latin, both numbers are present in biblical reference. The men who have this number stamped into their forehead, being the men who adhered to the thought within the rule.
These were coded messages to the seven specific churches addressed, a horn that is blown to call them into action.
Revelations is an expression speaking out against Roman rule; when you understand it's Historical value of these words, you can see the desire of freedom within them.
The words within Buddhism are far more advanced in thought, but they still have contextual value given their historical use.
1 Corinthians 14
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
A wealth of expression when you know what is written.
There is a wealth of expression within the bible, Christians don't see it because of their personal attachment, they believe it speaks specifically to their time and what they are facing in life.
Now examine your attachment to Buddhism, are you missing something?
You have free will to follow, and fulfil your karma.
You have free will to turn away from it, put it off for another time.
You, when still in the mind, know that you must fulfil your karma and what it is as it presents itself to you.
Then you have free will to accept it and serve it out. Or your mind gets in the way and you know nothing about it.
Discernment of whether it is karma, or something else, then employ free will to take action. Or run.
thank you
Believe it or not, I started entering into concepts beyond the struggle here..... I was coined as being crazy or that I made no sense. I would rather not indulge any short comings, but extend into many boundless aspects of thought.
I believe this was necessary in gaining the attention in order to do so.
I have my thoughts on this subject, but maybe will share them at another time.