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You mean that we can't know all the variables?
How does that logically conclude to it being wrong? It just means it's difficult to implement perfectly, which nobody disagrees with.
And how do you know EXACTY how karma works, Palzang? Nobody does, and as moral compasses differ, and people obviously view karma on what's moral/imoral to them, then karma can't possibly be exact to anybody's knowledge. Karma also has it's flaws, everything does.
Karma isn't a "thing", jellybean, nor is it a theory. It's just the way things work. If you drop a ball, it will bounce. If you stick a pin in a balloon, it will burst. If you behave in a virtuous manner, you will create the causes for happiness. It's really quite simple, and it's what the Buddha taught. The problem is that, although both cause and effect arise simultaneously, the effect often does not become apparent for a long time, maybe not for lifetimes, until conditions are right for it to happen. So we don't get the connection. I say that karma is exacting because that is what the Buddha taught, despite what some self-appointed gurus here might say. And I know from my own life that that is true.
No, Jacy, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is impossible to solve the problems of samsara (i.e. our ordinary, deluded way of looking at things) by using samsaric means. Sure, we can come up with ways to be happier than we are now, but still whatever happiness we do happen to scratch out will only be temporary at best. Life has a way of biting us in the ass just when we think everything is going great. Like last weekend I was at a rehab center near Baltimore doing prayers for a woman I know that has glioblastoma (the highly malignant and almost always fatal brain cancer that killed Ted Kennedy). Up until the cancer struck she was a very successful psychologist with a good husband and two very nice kids (around 20-ish) as well as being a Buddhist practitioner for many years. She would have probably said she was very happy, but then this happened, totally out of the blue, and she's almost certainly going to die. The point is that there is no way to manufacture happiness out of samsara unless you create the causes for happiness by following the teachings of the Buddha. It's got nothing to do with variables or figuring out how to implement whatever system you come up with because any system you come up with won't work.
I think when you're young it's very common to feel that you can figure out anything and find a way to be happy. It's only when you get older (or decrepit, like me!) that you finally realize things don't work out that way. It's too bad, but it's reality. And I'm sure you'll discover that as well as you get older. The fact that you're thinking about it is really good, as many people never do at all!
I think when you're young it's very common to feel that you can figure out anything and find a way to be happy. It's only when you get older (or decrepit, like me!) that you finally realize things don't work out that way. It's too bad, but it's reality. And I'm sure you'll discover that as well as you get older. The fact that you're thinking about it is really good, as many people never do at all!
Palzang
You know what? That paragraph just hit me like a ton of bricks. It is very true of my experience. In fact, when I think back I can vaguely remember feeling like I was entitled to a happy life. Not just me, but all of us. Part of me thought that just by being born we were all automatically entitled to a happy life and I just kept waiting and waiting for mine to begin.
Ah, bit of a late comer in this thread, but I'm Lucy, I'm 16 and live in Australia.
I used to be a member of eSangha, but I think it's shut down or something..
My parents identify as Catholic and Presbyterian but have never been very religious and they support my choices. I go to a Catholic school for some reason.
I became interested in Buddhism when I was 13, but only really got into it when I was 15 I think. I don't follow any particular tradition. I'm also vegan.
So, Palzang, as you don't believe in the Christian God he isn't real, to you. Where as the Christians believe in their God and think he's definitely real. You think he definitely isn't. You think karma is definitely real, some definitely don't. Do you see where I'm getting at?
Love & Peace
Jellybean
I want to get more books but even if I am a readoholic I buy more books than I can read. I have over 300 books and over 60 I haven't read. I just want to start them all! Hehehe...
My family is pretty much agnostic, but I've always had Buddhist-like principles instilled in me. I've always been very smart (2300+ SAT with a few days of studying!). My quest for knowledge, specifically ethical, led me to becoming Utilitarian, then I became a vegetarian. Now, I'm sort of kind of becoming a Buddhist!
In my life, I hope to spread as much happiness and reduce as much suffering as possible. To do this, I'm mainly considering getting rich and donating it all (this is actually a very convincing argument on why it's the best option to spread maximum happiness, read up on it!)
And that's me in a nutshell :cool: Nice to meet you guys!
Hi, I hadn't heard of Utilitarian until now, it seems interesting. That's a really great plan you have for the future, I hope you succeed in it .
Ah, bit of a late comer in this thread, but I'm Lucy, I'm 16 and live in Australia.
I used to be a member of eSangha, but I think it's shut down or something..
My parents identify as Catholic and Presbyterian but have never been very religious and they support my choices. I go to a Catholic school for some reason.
I became interested in Buddhism when I was 13, but only really got into it when I was 15 I think. I don't follow any particular tradition. I'm also vegan.
So, Palzang, as you don't believe in the Christian God he isn't real, to you. Where as the Christians believe in their God and think he's definitely real. You think he definitely isn't. You think karma is definitely real, some definitely don't. Do you see where I'm getting at?
Love & Peace
Jellybean
Karma is empirically provable. God isn't. God is magical thinking. Now, what were you getting at?
Partly that people can never admit they could be wrong, partly that you never know who's correct. I have my beliefs, but whatever isn't solid I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong. There are so many belief systems lots of them, if not all, are wrong, you've got to be open to all ideas.
I really don't care what other people believe. They can believe whatever they wish. I can only control what I believe. I only believe what can be supported by evidence or by the teachings of the Buddha. Anything else is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
I'm quite alright at the minute however, my friends are being good friends again, I feel on top of the world, nobodys bothering me, and somebody I really like asked me out My family don't seem to be quite so dysfunctional, I'm getting back on track with maths and my geography teacher finally discovered my knowledge of environmental studies so she's quite proud and it also means I'm finally doing well at geography which means I may be on the right track for my future environmental career So at the minute life is very good- (touch cheep-plastic-that's-supposed-to-be-wood).
I'm quite alright at the minute however, my friends are being good friends again, I feel on top of the world, nobodys bothering me, and somebody I really like asked me out My family don't seem to be quite so dysfunctional, I'm getting back on track with maths and my geography teacher finally discovered my knowledge of environmental studies so she's quite proud and it also means I'm finally doing well at geography which means I may be on the right track for my future environmental career So at the minute life is very good- (touch cheep-plastic-that's-supposed-to-be-wood).
Love & Peace
Jellybean
All very good news Joe! I am glad everything is going so well with you!
I myself am 15 (basically 16, but not like one year makes a difference, really!) and have just started down this path, and am loving it. Although theres so much to learn....I better get started!
I myself am 15 (basically 16, but not like one year makes a difference, really!) and have just started down this path, and am loving it. Although theres so much to learn....I better get started!
I myself am 15 (basically 16, but not like one year makes a difference, really!) and have just started down this path, and am loving it. Although theres so much to learn....I better get started!
Haha! There is a lot to learn! It can seem really overwhelming I suppose, though it is overwhelming in a nice way... like being rushed by family members when you get home from a trip away, that kind of overwhelming, nice thing. Well, I am glad that you have found a good path for you, and it's nice to have you here!
Haha! There is a lot to learn! It can seem really overwhelming I suppose, though it is overwhelming in a nice way... like being rushed by family members when you get home from a trip away, that kind of overwhelming, nice thing. Well, I am glad that you have found a good path for you, and it's nice to have you here!
It is, it makes me feel comforted to know that no matter what theres always gonna be something to make me feel warm, which books on Buddhism do..Something to learn and cement my faith even more.
I'm doing lovely, although my father is making it mighty hard to keep positive and on track with anything....But I'll survive. Yourself? :P
Ah yes, I'm sure you're not alone on that one friend!
A good practice is to portray a situation such as your father making it hard to be positive as a test to see how positive you can be. Buddhist target training .
Today I was playing catch with a friend and a local, and my friend's attitude wasn't too great, and I felt it sunk the whole notion of having fun. I thought "wait...is this me getting upset? Really? About a game of catch?". I laughed it off in my mind and continued playing.
Think of it as a vaccine. Person A has an infectious disease that they cannot control. You have the ability to protect yourself from it by identifying what it is and mentally vaccinating yourself. You can then use that knowledge to help the person by not aggravating the disease but treating it.
Ah yes, I'm sure you're not alone on that one friend!
A good practice is to portray a situation such as your father making it hard to be positive as a test to see how positive you can be. Buddhist target training .
Today I was playing catch with a friend and a local, and my friend's attitude wasn't too great, and I felt it sunk the whole notion of having fun. I thought "wait...is this me getting upset? Really? About a game of catch?". I laughed it off in my mind and continued playing.
Think of it as a vaccine. Person A has an infectious disease that they cannot control. You have the ability to protect yourself from it by identifying what it is and mentally vaccinating yourself. You can then use that knowledge to help the person by not aggravating the disease but treating it.
Thats actually pretty helpful. I'll have to try it, usually what I just do is walk away and do...something. But this sounds much better. Thank you.
Comments
Palzang
Palzang
How does that logically conclude to it being wrong? It just means it's difficult to implement perfectly, which nobody disagrees with.
Love & Peace
Jellybean
No, Jacy, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is impossible to solve the problems of samsara (i.e. our ordinary, deluded way of looking at things) by using samsaric means. Sure, we can come up with ways to be happier than we are now, but still whatever happiness we do happen to scratch out will only be temporary at best. Life has a way of biting us in the ass just when we think everything is going great. Like last weekend I was at a rehab center near Baltimore doing prayers for a woman I know that has glioblastoma (the highly malignant and almost always fatal brain cancer that killed Ted Kennedy). Up until the cancer struck she was a very successful psychologist with a good husband and two very nice kids (around 20-ish) as well as being a Buddhist practitioner for many years. She would have probably said she was very happy, but then this happened, totally out of the blue, and she's almost certainly going to die. The point is that there is no way to manufacture happiness out of samsara unless you create the causes for happiness by following the teachings of the Buddha. It's got nothing to do with variables or figuring out how to implement whatever system you come up with because any system you come up with won't work.
I think when you're young it's very common to feel that you can figure out anything and find a way to be happy. It's only when you get older (or decrepit, like me!) that you finally realize things don't work out that way. It's too bad, but it's reality. And I'm sure you'll discover that as well as you get older. The fact that you're thinking about it is really good, as many people never do at all!
Palzang
Silly and lazy.....:buck:
And kinda pathetic....:rolleyesc
I used to be a member of eSangha, but I think it's shut down or something..
My parents identify as Catholic and Presbyterian but have never been very religious and they support my choices. I go to a Catholic school for some reason.
I became interested in Buddhism when I was 13, but only really got into it when I was 15 I think. I don't follow any particular tradition. I'm also vegan.
So yeah, hi
Boo, can you breathe under all those bricks?! Here, let me try to get a few of them off you... /shoves a few to the side, smashing his foot/
Palzang
Palzang, just got a question for you. Do you believe in the Christian God?
To answer your question: NO!
Palzang
Thanks Palzang.
I hope you're foot's okay....
Palzang
Love & Peace
Jellybean
I'm like that with certain books too!.
Hey to_be, you're definitely not alone
Hi, I hadn't heard of Utilitarian until now, it seems interesting. That's a really great plan you have for the future, I hope you succeed in it
David.
Hey Lucy, welcome to the forum.
Hmm... life is difficult
How is everyone?
Karma is empirically provable. God isn't. God is magical thinking. Now, what were you getting at?
Palzang
Love & Peace
Jellybean
Palzang
Hahah. Well OK-ish is better than BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol.
I am tired of school ugh.............! Lol. I have no time, and I am being slowly driven crazy!
Love & Peace
Jellybean
All very good news Joe! I am glad everything is going so well with you!
It's good to have you around.:D
:om:
Haha! There is a lot to learn! It can seem really overwhelming I suppose, though it is overwhelming in a nice way... like being rushed by family members when you get home from a trip away, that kind of overwhelming, nice thing. Well, I am glad that you have found a good path for you, and it's nice to have you here!
Thanks, everyone here is so kind.
Nice to meet ya!
Ah yes, I'm sure you're not alone on that one friend!
A good practice is to portray a situation such as your father making it hard to be positive as a test to see how positive you can be. Buddhist target training
Today I was playing catch with a friend and a local, and my friend's attitude wasn't too great, and I felt it sunk the whole notion of having fun. I thought "wait...is this me getting upset? Really? About a game of catch?". I laughed it off in my mind and continued playing.
Think of it as a vaccine. Person A has an infectious disease that they cannot control. You have the ability to protect yourself from it by identifying what it is and mentally vaccinating yourself. You can then use that knowledge to help the person by not aggravating the disease but treating it.
Doing...neutral:D.
What Mr. Lookslikeacartoon said
Do I look like a cartoon ?? Ahem !
Bingo ! How did you guess how I look in the real life ??