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In order to understand why the persecution and ban, we need to know the histories well. Tibetans have a saying, “Whatever you endeavor, don’t do as the yak which, blind in one eye, eats only half of the meadow.”
In the early 60’s and 70’s His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama gave democracy to the Tibetan people at which time the government in exile adopted the name, Tibetan Government in Exile and no longer used the term Gaden Phodrang which is the name of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s personal house. His Holiness stated that this new democracy was to equal that of the foreign democracies in all ways but that it was not an independent nation. However, in the name of democracy, the Tibetan Government in Exile has now acquired control over Tibetan lay community and monastic community alike.
Monasteries in south india separated and there's much debate going on if schism has been committed.
TGIE executes similar to how the Gaden Phodrang used to carry out the orders of Dalai Lama.
His Holiness announced that Dorje Shugden is harming his own life, and that if the Tibetan people wanted His Holiness to stay a little longer then they should not do the praise for Dorje Shugden. He even presented a prophecy from the Nechung oracle which stated this.
Then His Holiness changed his story and said that Dolgyal, no longer referring to him as Dorje Shugden, is actually harming the Tibetan cause.
Currently, His Holiness has gone so far as to state that all the Dolgyal practitioners are bowing to the Chinese communists and that the Chinese government is greatly helping the Dolgyal practitioners.
Lay and ordained people are ostracized. They are not even allowed to buy supplies from their local stores if they are Dorje Shugden practitioners. Doesn't this violate our refuge vows of not harming?
I'm not here to offend anyone and criticize the Dalai Lama. Yet, should i has a Tibetan Buddhist brush off what Dorje Shugden practitioners are going through. For those who are interested, do go to dorjeshugden.com...information are presented in fairly non-biased way for us to make our own conclusions.
Perhaps you will find in your hearts, ways to support and promote Buddhism despite what seems to be contradictory to the Buddhist tenets.
There are many substantial facts pointing to Dorje SHugden's qualities which is highly beneficial. It'll be fairly long to post in here for those who may be interested. So I'll just include one of the points below:
Dorje Shugden’s form teaches the paths of Sutra and Tantra
Dorje Shugden's form teaches the complete stages of the path of Sutra and Tantra, and such qualities are not possessed by the forms of worldly beings.
He appears as a fully ordained monk to show that the practice of pure moral discipline is essential for those who wish to attain enlightenment. In his left hand he holds a heart, which symbolize great compassion and spontaneous great bliss – the essence of all the stages of the vast path of Sutra and Tantra. His round yellow hat represents the view of Nagarjuna, and the wisdom sword in his right hand (like the one held by Manjushri and Je Tsongkhapa) teaches us to sever ignorance, the root of samsara, with the sharp blade of Nagarjuna’s view. This is the essence of all the stages of the profound path of Sutra and Tantra. He rides a snow lion, symbolizing the four fearlessnesses of a Buddha.
Explanation of his remaining features can be found in Heart Jewel, as can the specific enlightened function of each of the thirty-two Deities of his mandala, which are explained in a prayer written by Sachen Kunlo, one of the great Sakya Lamas.
Only enlightened beings display a meaningful aspect that teaches the entire path to enlightenment. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
You missed the point entirely of what I was saying, Steve.
Originally Posted by Palzang Nothing like that at all, Torin. The Dalai Lama is not the Buddhist pope. He is, however, the head of the Gelugpa school, and as such he has the right to tell his students what practices are OK to do and which aren't. The reason he banned the Dorje Shugden practice is because it is intended to suppress other schools of Buddhism, which is not beneficial to anyone. It's really not very complex, despite the smokescreens put up by the Dorje Shugden people.
Palzang
Dear Palzang,
I am not here to talk bad about the Dalai Lama or to disrespect him. Much to the contrary I respect Him a lot and also believe he is Chenrezig. If the Dalai Lama wants to Ban an ancient practice which He himself have done for many years, I trust he has a bigger reason and bigger goal beyond our capable wisdom at the moment to see.
Some say He is WRONG Some say He is Bad, Some say just do your practice quietly and never forsake your Guru Devotion and Samaya and never talk bad abt any sangha what more a person like HH the Dalai Lama.
However I find that it is the Tibetan people themselves with their extremist attitude, almost like Terrorist attackers that I cannot comprehend why a nation supposedly steep in Buddha Dharma could do such a thing to their own brothers and sisters, what more they were sangha members. So long as you wear robes, you represent the Buddha, hence respect should be given to a man in robes, that is what Buddha said no?
So can you tell me what is wrong with these people and I am certain the Dalai Lama did not order them to do be violent in the name of Banning Dorje Shugden?
My next post is a true story and I just cannot believe what happened and Why does the Dalai Lama allow this??? It makes people all around the world doubt and question his actions. There are many debates and questions I can think of but first read the article I post and tell me it does not make you question WHY?!
48-Hour Curfew at Tibetan Settlement. 24-Hour Curfew at Another Tibetan Settlement in South India. INDIA – Deccan Herald,
Monday, September 11, 2000: Representatives of Dorje Shugden devotees from Ooty, Shillong, Kalimpong, Darjeeling and Sikh, Nepal, Delhi and Bylakuppe gathered at the settlement (Pop. 13,000) in Mundgod in the southern Indian state of Karnataka to participate in a one-day prayer convention organised by the local Shugden Society. The gathering was violently attacked by a mob of more than 2000 Tibetan Dalai Lama “supporters”. An eye-witness report from these incidents: Sep. 8:
Anticipating objection and violence, Mr Nudup Dorje, Chairman of the settlement, requests all the house masters of Gaden Monastery to calm down their monks on the 10th, as ‘there will be only a peaceful protest march of about 200 Tibetans against the Dorje Shugden convention’. Ven. Geleg Thogmed, the house master of Dokhang Khangtsen calls a special gathering of all the monks of Dokhang Khangtsen, and asks each and every one of them to remain calm during the peaceful protest. The monks believe their house master, and return perplexed and thoughtfully to their quarters. Sep. 9:
Representatives of Dorje Shugden devotees arrive from Ooty, Shillong, Kalimpong, Darjeeling and Sikh, Nepal, Delhi and Bylakuppe arrive at the settlement (Pop. 13,000) in Mundgod in the southern Indian state of Karnataka to participate in a one-day prayer convention organised by the local Shugden Society, for the purpose of:
(1) sorting out legal and other details about constructing a new prayer hall for the worship of Lord Shugden as the existing one can accommodate only half the number of devotees at every prayer session and
(2) discussing how to respond to the continuing religious prosecution within Tibetan society at the hands of those claiming to be ’supporters of the Dalai Lama’ against anyone who reveres the Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. The delegates, assembled in Delhi, leave in two groups for south India. MUNDGOD:
The area in front of the new Dokhang Khangtsen (House), located beside the entry gate to the Tibetan settlement, is quiet except for a police bus and a few policemen on patrol. This was sent by the local police. Morning, Karnatak countryroad:
Representatives for the convention who came together by train are stopped halfway to Mundgod by a detachment of police, and searched thoroughly for weapons, at the behest of the local Tibetan Women’s Association and the Tibetan Youth Congress who had baselessly alleged that Shugden devotees are ‘anti-Dalai Lama’. Mid Afternoon, Goa-Karnatak border:
Geshe Cheme, General Secretary of the Shugden Society, and two advocates of the Supreme Court of India, Mr Thakur and Mr Arvind Singh, were on their way to the convention from the airport when they were stopped by another detachment of police at the Goa-Karnatak border. They are escorted to the district police headquarters at the seaside city of Karwar to meet the police commissioner. The PC briefs the Supreme Court lawyers about allegations he has received from the Tibetan Women’s Association, the Tibetan Youth Congress, and the settlement Chairman to the effect that the Shugden devotees in the settlement are all ‘anti-Dalai Lama’, ‘paid by China’ and other baseless charges. He asks the lawyers to live in separate accommodations outside of the Tibetan settlement, as he was apprehensive that ‘the other side’ may attack the convention participants. They reach the convention venue after another five hours by car. Late evening, Mundgod Tibetan settlement: News is received that, as their final pitch to prevent the convention from taking place, officers of the local Tibetan Women’s Association asked the camp leaders to announce that every Tibetan in the settlement above the age of 15 should join their protest the next day. Anyone refusing will be fined Rs. 500, or will be asked to give an explanation. The TWA approaches Drepung Loseling Monastery, requesting it to send Drepung monks to participate in the protest. The monastery keeps silent. Besides monasteries, the TWA visited the local Tibetan infirmary with the same message. They visited Jangchub Choeling (The Abode of Dharma), the peaceful local Tibetan nunnery, a second time to urge the nuns to join in the next morning’s procession. Sep. 10: 9 A.M. Soon after their simple breakfast, local Tibetans began to leave their home in twos and threes. From the side of Camp 3, several hundred Tibetans descended towards Gaden Monastery as though they were on their normal life visits in the settlement. However, after passing the big blue police van strategically placed near the Camp 3 bridge, they came together, forming a 3000-strong procession and briskly proceeded towards Gaden Monastery. But we did not know any of this at the time…
Except for some passersby, there was almost no one within the gates of the convention precinct. It was open. From the vantage point of the new prayer hall, I could see groups of police and some passersby outside the gate. Most of the monks had gone to attend the morning debate at the monastery courtyard.
Geshe Jangchub Dorje, President of the local Shugden society, opens the prayer convention. There are about 70 delegates. Mr Jampal Yeshe, President of the Shugden Society from Delhi, took the podium next. We were hardly a few minutes into his speech when political reality thrust aside peaceful intentions of mortals…
From our venue, we started hearing chants. The chanting got louder and louder. It became more and more difficult to concentrate on the speaker. About 50 steps away from the prayer hall, outsiders began to converge at the gate to watch the advancing procession. Monks helping with the prayer convention from within the compound became curious and went to see. The policemen began to form a barrier outside the gate. They had helmets and cane batons. None of them had shields.
Expecting to see leaders of the TWA and TYC leading the march, the onlookers saw widows, old women and old men from the local Tibetan infirmary placed at the head of the procession. The Chairman of the settlement was seen pretending to stop the advancing procession. As the protesters reached the gates of Dokhang House (the prayer venue), they became ugly. They began to shout abuses against Dorje Shugden. “Any Tibetan who worships Shugden against the wishes of the Dalai Lama”, they shouted, “are traitors.” Soon the protesters began to throw dust and small stones at the direction of the convention. These fell on monks who were watching from inside the gate. Soon larger stones and bricks followed. Flower pots and glass panes of the Dokhang students’ hostel facing the road were smashed without pity. All the windows of the nearby residence of Geshe Tenzin Chophel, one of the main disciples of the late Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, were hit and smashed. The attack increased in intensity. The local police inspector was hit on the face and started bleeding. Other police officers were similarly attacked. It was becoming impossible to restrain the monks watching from inside. They became restless. They shouted at the police for holding them in check while not being able to control the abuse and attack from the protesters. The abuses and attacks continued. Some of the monks within the gate rushed out and charged at the protesting mob.
Soon there was hand-to-hand fighting between the protesters and the monks. It was an uneven match: about 40 monks, young and old, trying to combat about 3000 screaming protesters. Many on both sides received bad beatings. Many on both the sides started bleeding from injuries. Some protesters begged for mercy, saying they had no choice but to join the procession or face penalty from the TWA. Nuns in the procession from the local Tibetan nunnery fled to the nearby Lhopa Khangtsen. Amidst sobs they cried that the TWA came to their nunnery twice to ask them to join to this protest march, be fined, or ‘face a Tibetan inquiry commission’. The fight was continuing. Sticks, stones and bricks were landing everywhere. The protesters fled screaming. But again they regrouped and advanced towards the monks. The in-fighting became bitter and tragic. Some of the protesters, while fleeing, fell into ditches and nearly suffocated to death. Others, while fleeing, smashed the window panes of the Shartse Monastery student canteen and the library above it.
Violence and Sangha are not a good mix
Some old Tibetans were seen weeping at the steps of the Shartse student canteen, sobbing that that this attack on the monks was a replay of the cultural revolution in Tibet. The violent confrontation and fighting, however, grew in strength and continued for about two hours. In desperation, the police fired several times into the air. This proved effective.
Many Tibetans on both sides suffered injuries. Among the protesters some fell unconscious; others had to be lifted and carried away. Some of the monks had to be immediately taken to Indian hospitals in Mundgod. About 40 protesters were treated for various injuries at the local Tibetan hospital near Camp 3. About seven of them were said to be admitted. We also heard that one monk and a nun had fatal injuries, and were rushed to Hubli hospital for intensive treatment.
The prayer convention was resumed. The Supreme Court lawyers, who had witnessed the confrontation from their car throughout the duration, were shocked beyond belief. They addressed the convention. They observed that according to the constitution of India, every Tibetan living in India has complete freedom to adopt any religion and worship any god.
About lunch time the police commissioner arrived at the Tibetan settlement from his headquarters in Karwar (three-hour bus ride) to evaluate the situation for himself and to inspect the attack on his officers by the protesters. For the local police chief whose uniform was splattered with blood from injuries on his face, the commissioner asked for a change of his officer’s uniform.
Meanwhile, at the settlement office, the Tibetan Women’s Association, the Tibetan Youth Congress and other Tibetans were planning a second protest march in the evening. Apprised of this development the local Indian administration decided to ask the delegates to leave by nightfall. At the same time, they imposed a 24-hour curfew throughout the Tibetan settlement. Sensing that even the leaving of delegates was not enough for the protesters and the organisers, fearing an even more serious civil unrest, the police commissioner imposed another 24-hour curfew at 6PM on Tuesday, September 11 over the entire settlement. What happened at Sera after the Mundgod incident: On Sep. 12 the next day, there was another clash among the Tibetans. This took place at the Bylakuppe Tibetan settlement, the largest Tibetan enclave outside of Tibet. Delegates from various Tibetan monasteries and camps had objected to the presence of the United Cholsum Organisation (UCL) who had arrived from Dharamsala to pitch for elections. Though both the police and the settlement Chairmen ordered them to be out of the settlement by 8AM, they evaded the order and stayed on. The entire delegation of the Dorje Shugden devotees from all over India and Nepal, who had a brief reception at the local Pomra Khangtsen monastery on their return from Mundgod, left the place as asked by the police. About 600 Tibetans awaited them at Camp 1. They missed the delegates’ car, which left by another route. However, about 20 monks of Pomra Khangtsen, who saw off the delegates up to Priyapatna, were not so fortunate. When they returned towards their monastery after seeing off the delegation, they fell right into the waiting arms of a 600-strong Tibetan mob. In complete defiance of the police intervention, they attacked the monks. There was no compassion. None of the monks were spared. They were beaten without mercy by their fellow Tibetans. All of them received massive injuries. The police imposed a 24-hour curfew in the settlement.
Although the 20 monks were beaten without mercy by the Tibetans, the police took them into judicial custody. The UCO leaders, who responsible for the clash, and were contravening their expulsion order from the police, were left untouched.
Extracted from: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2243 Source: www.schettini.com
What did the Buddha have to say about foretune tellers & soothsayers?
Did the Buddha approve of monks being actively involved in politics?
Did the Buddha approve a system (caste system) of reincarnated holy men?
"The Great Section on Virtue "Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such lowly arts as: reading marks on the limbs [e.g., palmistry]; reading omens and signs; interpreting celestial events [falling stars, comets]; interpreting dreams; reading marks on the body [e.g., phrenology]; reading marks on cloth gnawed by mice; offering fire oblations, oblations from a ladle, oblations of husks, rice powder, rice grains, ghee, and oil; offering oblations from the mouth; offering blood-sacrifices; making predictions based on the fingertips; geomancy; laying demons in a cemetery; placing spells on spirits; reciting house-protection charms; snake charming, poison-lore, scorpion-lore, rat-lore, bird-lore, crow-lore; fortune-telling based on visions; giving protective charms; interpreting the calls of birds and animals — he abstains from wrong livelihood, from lowly arts such as these."
in the context of the dharma this byzantine power struggle, and it is just about power, is absurd. these "buddhist" combatants and their minions should devote themselves to the eightfold path (which should be enough to fill anyone's plate) and their petty conflict would disappear in a puff of smoke.
Comments
ha ha ha hahahahahaha
In the early 60’s and 70’s His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama gave democracy to the Tibetan people at which time the government in exile adopted the name, Tibetan Government in Exile and no longer used the term Gaden Phodrang which is the name of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s personal house. His Holiness stated that this new democracy was to equal that of the foreign democracies in all ways but that it was not an independent nation. However, in the name of democracy, the Tibetan Government in Exile has now acquired control over Tibetan lay community and monastic community alike.
Monasteries in south india separated and there's much debate going on if schism has been committed.
TGIE executes similar to how the Gaden Phodrang used to carry out the orders of Dalai Lama.
His Holiness announced that Dorje Shugden is harming his own life, and that if the Tibetan people wanted His Holiness to stay a little longer then they should not do the praise for Dorje Shugden. He even presented a prophecy from the Nechung oracle which stated this.
Then His Holiness changed his story and said that Dolgyal, no longer referring to him as Dorje Shugden, is actually harming the Tibetan cause.
Currently, His Holiness has gone so far as to state that all the Dolgyal practitioners are bowing to the Chinese communists and that the Chinese government is greatly helping the Dolgyal practitioners.
Lay and ordained people are ostracized. They are not even allowed to buy supplies from their local stores if they are Dorje Shugden practitioners. Doesn't this violate our refuge vows of not harming?
I'm not here to offend anyone and criticize the Dalai Lama. Yet, should i has a Tibetan Buddhist brush off what Dorje Shugden practitioners are going through. For those who are interested, do go to dorjeshugden.com...information are presented in fairly non-biased way for us to make our own conclusions.
Perhaps you will find in your hearts, ways to support and promote Buddhism despite what seems to be contradictory to the Buddhist tenets.
peace
Steve J
You missed the point entirely of what I was saying, Steve.
Palzang
I am not here to talk bad about the Dalai Lama or to disrespect him. Much to the contrary I respect Him a lot and also believe he is Chenrezig. If the Dalai Lama wants to Ban an ancient practice which He himself have done for many years, I trust he has a bigger reason and bigger goal beyond our capable wisdom at the moment to see.
Some say He is WRONG Some say He is Bad, Some say just do your practice quietly and never forsake your Guru Devotion and Samaya and never talk bad abt any sangha what more a person like HH the Dalai Lama.
However I find that it is the Tibetan people themselves with their extremist attitude, almost like Terrorist attackers that I cannot comprehend why a nation supposedly steep in Buddha Dharma could do such a thing to their own brothers and sisters, what more they were sangha members. So long as you wear robes, you represent the Buddha, hence respect should be given to a man in robes, that is what Buddha said no?
So can you tell me what is wrong with these people and I am certain the Dalai Lama did not order them to do be violent in the name of Banning Dorje Shugden?
My next post is a true story and I just cannot believe what happened and Why does the Dalai Lama allow this??? It makes people all around the world doubt and question his actions. There are many debates and questions I can think of but first read the article I post and tell me it does not make you question WHY?!
48-Hour Curfew at Tibetan Settlement. 24-Hour Curfew at Another Tibetan Settlement in South India.
INDIA – Deccan Herald,
Monday, September 11, 2000:
Representatives of Dorje Shugden devotees from Ooty, Shillong, Kalimpong, Darjeeling and Sikh, Nepal, Delhi and Bylakuppe gathered at the settlement (Pop. 13,000) in Mundgod in the southern Indian state of Karnataka to participate in a one-day prayer convention organised by the local Shugden Society. The gathering was violently attacked by a mob of more than 2000 Tibetan Dalai Lama “supporters”. An eye-witness report from these incidents:
Sep. 8:
Anticipating objection and violence, Mr Nudup Dorje, Chairman of the settlement, requests all the house masters of Gaden Monastery to calm down their monks on the 10th, as ‘there will be only a peaceful protest march of about 200 Tibetans against the Dorje Shugden convention’. Ven. Geleg Thogmed, the house master of Dokhang Khangtsen calls a special gathering of all the monks of Dokhang Khangtsen, and asks each and every one of them to remain calm during the peaceful protest. The monks believe their house master, and return perplexed and thoughtfully to their quarters.
Sep. 9:
Representatives of Dorje Shugden devotees arrive from Ooty, Shillong, Kalimpong, Darjeeling and Sikh, Nepal, Delhi and Bylakuppe arrive at the settlement (Pop. 13,000) in Mundgod in the southern Indian state of Karnataka to participate in a one-day prayer convention organised by the local Shugden Society, for the purpose of:
(1) sorting out legal and other details about constructing a new prayer hall for the worship of Lord Shugden as the existing one can accommodate only half the number of devotees at every prayer session and
(2) discussing how to respond to the continuing religious prosecution within Tibetan society at the hands of those claiming to be ’supporters of the Dalai Lama’ against anyone who reveres the Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. The delegates, assembled in Delhi, leave in two groups for south India.
MUNDGOD:
The area in front of the new Dokhang Khangtsen (House), located beside the entry gate to the Tibetan settlement, is quiet except for a police bus and a few policemen on patrol. This was sent by the local police.
Morning, Karnatak countryroad:
Representatives for the convention who came together by train are stopped halfway to Mundgod by a detachment of police, and searched thoroughly for weapons, at the behest of the local Tibetan Women’s Association and the Tibetan Youth Congress who had baselessly alleged that Shugden devotees are ‘anti-Dalai Lama’.
Mid Afternoon, Goa-Karnatak border:
Geshe Cheme, General Secretary of the Shugden Society, and two advocates of the Supreme Court of India, Mr Thakur and Mr Arvind Singh, were on their way to the convention from the airport when they were stopped by another detachment of police at the Goa-Karnatak border. They are escorted to the district police headquarters at the seaside city of Karwar to meet the police commissioner. The PC briefs the Supreme Court lawyers about allegations he has received from the Tibetan Women’s Association, the Tibetan Youth Congress, and the settlement Chairman to the effect that the Shugden devotees in the settlement are all ‘anti-Dalai Lama’, ‘paid by China’ and other baseless charges. He asks the lawyers to live in separate accommodations outside of the Tibetan settlement, as he was apprehensive that ‘the other side’ may attack the convention participants. They reach the convention venue after another five hours by car.
Late evening, Mundgod Tibetan settlement:
News is received that, as their final pitch to prevent the convention from taking place, officers of the local Tibetan Women’s Association asked the camp leaders to announce that every Tibetan in the settlement above the age of 15 should join their protest the next day. Anyone refusing will be fined Rs. 500, or will be asked to give an explanation. The TWA approaches Drepung Loseling Monastery, requesting it to send Drepung monks to participate in the protest. The monastery keeps silent. Besides monasteries, the TWA visited the local Tibetan infirmary with the same message. They visited Jangchub Choeling (The Abode of Dharma), the peaceful local Tibetan nunnery, a second time to urge the nuns to join in the next morning’s procession.
Sep. 10: 9 A.M.
Soon after their simple breakfast, local Tibetans began to leave their home in twos and threes. From the side of Camp 3, several hundred Tibetans descended towards Gaden Monastery as though they were on their normal life visits in the settlement. However, after passing the big blue police van strategically placed near the Camp 3 bridge, they came together, forming a 3000-strong procession and briskly proceeded towards Gaden Monastery. But we did not know any of this at the time…
Except for some passersby, there was almost no one within the gates of the convention precinct. It was open. From the vantage point of the new prayer hall, I could see groups of police and some passersby outside the gate. Most of the monks had gone to attend the morning debate at the monastery courtyard.
Geshe Jangchub Dorje, President of the local Shugden society, opens the prayer convention. There are about 70 delegates. Mr Jampal Yeshe, President of the Shugden Society from Delhi, took the podium next. We were hardly a few minutes into his speech when political reality thrust aside peaceful intentions of mortals…
From our venue, we started hearing chants. The chanting got louder and louder. It became more and more difficult to concentrate on the speaker. About 50 steps away from the prayer hall, outsiders began to converge at the gate to watch the advancing procession. Monks helping with the prayer convention from within the compound became curious and went to see. The policemen began to form a barrier outside the gate. They had helmets and cane batons. None of them had shields.
Expecting to see leaders of the TWA and TYC leading the march, the onlookers saw widows, old women and old men from the local Tibetan infirmary placed at the head of the procession. The Chairman of the settlement was seen pretending to stop the advancing procession. As the protesters reached the gates of Dokhang House (the prayer venue), they became ugly. They began to shout abuses against Dorje Shugden. “Any Tibetan who worships Shugden against the wishes of the Dalai Lama”, they shouted, “are traitors.” Soon the protesters began to throw dust and small stones at the direction of the convention. These fell on monks who were watching from inside the gate. Soon larger stones and bricks followed. Flower pots and glass panes of the Dokhang students’ hostel facing the road were smashed without pity. All the windows of the nearby residence of Geshe Tenzin Chophel, one of the main disciples of the late Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, were hit and smashed. The attack increased in intensity. The local police inspector was hit on the face and started bleeding. Other police officers were similarly attacked. It was becoming impossible to restrain the monks watching from inside. They became restless. They shouted at the police for holding them in check while not being able to control the abuse and attack from the protesters. The abuses and attacks continued. Some of the monks within the gate rushed out and charged at the protesting mob.
Soon there was hand-to-hand fighting between the protesters and the monks. It was an uneven match: about 40 monks, young and old, trying to combat about 3000 screaming protesters. Many on both sides received bad beatings. Many on both the sides started bleeding from injuries. Some protesters begged for mercy, saying they had no choice but to join the procession or face penalty from the TWA. Nuns in the procession from the local Tibetan nunnery fled to the nearby Lhopa Khangtsen. Amidst sobs they cried that the TWA came to their nunnery twice to ask them to join to this protest march, be fined, or ‘face a Tibetan inquiry commission’. The fight was continuing. Sticks, stones and bricks were landing everywhere. The protesters fled screaming. But again they regrouped and advanced towards the monks. The in-fighting became bitter and tragic. Some of the protesters, while fleeing, fell into ditches and nearly suffocated to death. Others, while fleeing, smashed the window panes of the Shartse Monastery student canteen and the library above it.
Many Tibetans on both sides suffered injuries. Among the protesters some fell unconscious; others had to be lifted and carried away. Some of the monks had to be immediately taken to Indian hospitals in Mundgod. About 40 protesters were treated for various injuries at the local Tibetan hospital near Camp 3. About seven of them were said to be admitted. We also heard that one monk and a nun had fatal injuries, and were rushed to Hubli hospital for intensive treatment.
The prayer convention was resumed. The Supreme Court lawyers, who had witnessed the confrontation from their car throughout the duration, were shocked beyond belief. They addressed the convention. They observed that according to the constitution of India, every Tibetan living in India has complete freedom to adopt any religion and worship any god.
About lunch time the police commissioner arrived at the Tibetan settlement from his headquarters in Karwar (three-hour bus ride) to evaluate the situation for himself and to inspect the attack on his officers by the protesters. For the local police chief whose uniform was splattered with blood from injuries on his face, the commissioner asked for a change of his officer’s uniform.
Meanwhile, at the settlement office, the Tibetan Women’s Association, the Tibetan Youth Congress and other Tibetans were planning a second protest march in the evening. Apprised of this development the local Indian administration decided to ask the delegates to leave by nightfall. At the same time, they imposed a 24-hour curfew throughout the Tibetan settlement. Sensing that even the leaving of delegates was not enough for the protesters and the organisers, fearing an even more serious civil unrest, the police commissioner imposed another 24-hour curfew at 6PM on Tuesday, September 11 over the entire settlement.
What happened at Sera after the Mundgod incident:
On Sep. 12 the next day, there was another clash among the Tibetans. This took place at the Bylakuppe Tibetan settlement, the largest Tibetan enclave outside of Tibet. Delegates from various Tibetan monasteries and camps had objected to the presence of the United Cholsum Organisation (UCL) who had arrived from Dharamsala to pitch for elections. Though both the police and the settlement Chairmen ordered them to be out of the settlement by 8AM, they evaded the order and stayed on. The entire delegation of the Dorje Shugden devotees from all over India and Nepal, who had a brief reception at the local Pomra Khangtsen monastery on their return from Mundgod, left the place as asked by the police.
About 600 Tibetans awaited them at Camp 1. They missed the delegates’ car, which left by another route. However, about 20 monks of Pomra Khangtsen, who saw off the delegates up to Priyapatna, were not so fortunate. When they returned towards their monastery after seeing off the delegation, they fell right into the waiting arms of a 600-strong Tibetan mob. In complete defiance of the police intervention, they attacked the monks. There was no compassion. None of the monks were spared. They were beaten without mercy by their fellow Tibetans. All of them received massive injuries. The police imposed a 24-hour curfew in the settlement.
Although the 20 monks were beaten without mercy by the Tibetans, the police took them into judicial custody. The UCO leaders, who responsible for the clash, and were contravening their expulsion order from the police, were left untouched.
Extracted from: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2243
Source: www.schettini.com
What did the Buddha have to say about foretune tellers & soothsayers?
Did the Buddha approve of monks being actively involved in politics?
Did the Buddha approve a system (caste system) of reincarnated holy men?
Just thought I'd ask:rolleyes:
Nothing
I don't know.
He didn't mention it either.
Fortune telling.......................
"The Great Section on Virtue "Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such lowly arts as: reading marks on the limbs [e.g., palmistry]; reading omens and signs; interpreting celestial events [falling stars, comets]; interpreting dreams; reading marks on the body [e.g., phrenology]; reading marks on cloth gnawed by mice; offering fire oblations, oblations from a ladle, oblations of husks, rice powder, rice grains, ghee, and oil; offering oblations from the mouth; offering blood-sacrifices; making predictions based on the fingertips; geomancy; laying demons in a cemetery; placing spells on spirits; reciting house-protection charms; snake charming, poison-lore, scorpion-lore, rat-lore, bird-lore, crow-lore; fortune-telling based on visions; giving protective charms; interpreting the calls of birds and animals — he abstains from wrong livelihood, from lowly arts such as these."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html
Politics...................
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.2.02.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an10/an10.069.than.html
Nobility of birth................
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.093.than.html
Regards
Widfola
Oh my bad, thank you for correcting me. :-)
thanks
kate